Thinking about doing the houseboat thing...in London (1 Viewer)

[Gromett]

Hiya Pia, here in lays the difference. Living in a boatyard or marina is totally different than cc,ing as you will know. Having services on hand, elsan or pump out, water, power is easy. Now, let's take a day like today here in Suffolk, it's blowing a gale water tank is getting close to empty, cassettes need emptying, or tank pumped out, no vehicle so the boats got to move whether you like it or not, then you get to the elsan and find it blocked/out of service, the only water point for miles is frozen. I've said from the outset that I'm not trying to put Gromett off I'm just saying it as I saw it many times.

Those are all issues I have living in a van. I use CL's during the winter which tend to be miles from the nearest shops/supplies.
I have had frozen grey tanks, fresh water taps that can't be used for a week or more at a time, blocked in by the weather and no way to get calor (early days) or my LPG tanks topped up. Power cuts that lasted 8 days and many more issues.

I am accustomed to the harsh life of living off grid in the middle of nowhere. I have work arounds for all problems you mention.. I am not your average house dwelling joe blogs with no idea about life off grid .

 

[Pia]

Those are all issues I have living in a van. I use CL's during the winter which tend to be miles from the nearest shops/supplies.
I have had frozen grey tanks, fresh water taps that can't be used for a week or more at a time, blocked in by the weather and no way to get calor (early days) or my LPG tanks topped up. Power cuts that lasted 8 days and many more issues.

I am accustomed to the harsh life of living off grid in the middle of nowhere. I have work arounds for all problems you mention.. I am not your average house dwelling joe blogs with no idea about life off grid .

Living off grid in a boat is a lot easier, in my view, than living off grid in a motor home. There is no weight limit in a boat. You can get pretty 'togged out" with batteries etc for living off grid in a boat. If you have an all purpose burner you can be pretty self sufficient heating wise and the engine gives plenty of hot water. It is a different way of being ....and not a 'piece of cake' as you have to be fairly self-sufficient and able and not mind getting wet and muddy filling your water tank or carting a gas cylinder or bags of coal/wood along the tow path, or gathering wood along your route or whatever. It is a more demanding life style than living in a house and it makes you more aware of our impact on the environment but it is a pretty amazing way of living and especially if you are living alone....so don't be put off, have a good look around, wander along the local towpath and chat to people on board boats...go look at different boats within your price range or even just above your price range do lots of research, get as much information as you can before making a decision...it really is a pretty amazing way to live. If you do look at possible boats to buy see if you can find out who built the boat for sale as there are some really good builders whose boats are pretty amazing and if properly maintained can be a best buy. Also, don't be put off by ex-hire boats as they will have been well maintained...the only problem with those is that the arrangement of inside living space may not be to your liking nor indeed best for living aboard but the inside can be re-arranged with effort and not necessarily a lot of money. Best of luck.

 

[Gromett]

Living off grid in a boat is a lot easier, in my view, than living off grid in a motor home. There is no weight limit in a boat. You can get pretty 'togged out" with batteries etc for living off grid in a boat. If you have an all purpose burner you can be pretty self sufficient heating wise and the engine gives plenty of hot water. It is a different way of being ....and not a 'piece of cake' as you have to be fairly self-sufficient and able and not mind getting wet and muddy filling your water tank or carting a gas cylinder or bags of coal/wood along the tow path, or gathering wood along your route or whatever. It is a more demanding life style than living in a house and it makes you more aware of our impact on the environment but it is a pretty amazing way of living and especially if you are living alone....so don't be put off, have a good look around, wander along the local towpath and chat to people on board boats...go look at different boats within your price range or even just above your price range do lots of research, get as much information as you can before making a decision...it really is a pretty amazing way to live. If you do look at possible boats to buy see if you can find out who built the boat for sale as there are some really good builders whose boats are pretty amazing and if properly maintained can be a best buy. Also, don't be put off by ex-hire boats as they will have been well maintained...the only problem with those is that the arrangement of inside living space may not be to your liking nor indeed best for living aboard but the inside can be re-arranged with effort and not necessarily a lot of money. Best of luck.

I have spent a lot of hours watching youtube videos by narrow boat owners and marina/boat yards. Watching builds from scratch etc and fit outs.

I am a self builder, and I am considering a sail away new build hull, or maybe an old project boat where I do the full fit out myself. The reason for this is I get the exact layout I want and I know where everything is and how everything goes together. It just makes fixing things when they break so much easier.

Anyway, only a dream at the moment. I won't be doing this for 5-10 years.

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[Spriddler]

Four pages and two weeks now since the OP asked for comments. Evidently they didn't float his boat. Still, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Gromett]

I should have clarified. I meant to post two pack polyurethane insulation can help prevent rust from the inside. At least the closed cell does. It bonds firmly to the metal and does not come off. Ask anyone who has ever tried to remove the stuff

 

[olley]

Surprised they don't build them out of something like Corten.

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[Paddywack]

Wow, where to start?

Most NARROWBOATS are actually welded together not glued, a longboats are what the vikings came in / or smaller rowing boats launched from larger ships. Normal construction for steel ones is 10mm for the bottom plate (saves on ballast), 6 or 7mm for hull sides and and 5 mm for cabin sides with 4mm roof. Properly treated and maintained in a freshwater environment you will not get any rust and the two part spray insulation you are planning to use will work. My second narrowboat was over a hundred years old and if properly maintained will last another hundred.

I think you are also confused about osmosis as this only affects composite not steel boats.

Canal boats tend to be dimensioned for the canal locks that they use, if you want to get everywhere on the 2000 miles of connected inland waterways then a 58ft narrowboat is the size to go for. Easily manageable for single handed operation.

Moorings are normally charged by the linear length (either feet or part metre) but some will make a surcharge for wide beamed boats. There is no "price rises steeply once you stepped over 10m", I don't know where you got that from. When I lived on my boat in Regents Park I managed the rest of the London canals moorings, all charged on a linear basis. I currently run a coastal marina and here we charge based on the length of finger pontoon you want, and can safely occupy, on the basis that "once the garage is occupied it doesn't matter if its a roller or a mini you can't get another car in there."

Mooring fees vary, both coastal and inland and are determined by market forces. Mooring fees are also determined by the services provided - like sites. Try not to get a boat with a pumpout - a cartridge loo is much easier for the liveaboard. The most expensive moorings I have come across are on the South Coast - they even cost more than St Katherines Dock.

There is a big difference between living on a composite yacht and a steel narrowboat, having tried both I know the narrowboat is a lot more comfortable, especially in winter.

 

[Gromett]

Try not to get a boat with a pumpout - a cartridge loo is much easier for the liveaboard.

Thanks for your excellent post. I was going to mention welding not glued and to query osmosis on a steel vessel. But you beat me to it.

I will ask you about this though... pumpout vs cassette. I would always go the pumpout route and look for 100 Litre+ tank. My current cassette is 18L and lasts me just under a week. With a 100+Litre tank I would manage 2+2+1 weeks. So even if I miss a pumpout on a move, I could catch it on the next move and still have a week of leaway in case I got trapped for any reason.

With a cassette. I would either have to move 3 times within some 14 day periods or Carry multiple cassettes. I think I prefer the pumpout method, but would look at getting a galvanically isolated stainless steel tank installed.

 

[Paddywack]

With a cassette. I would either have to move 3 times within some 14 day periods or Carry multiple cassettes. I think I prefer the pumpout method, but would look at getting a galvanically isolated stainless steel tank installed.

The advantage of multiple cassettes is that you can always drive to an elsan point, even when your frozen in. Although I did always worry about someone driving into the back of me when I had mine in transport!

The galvanically isolated stainless steel tank might be a bit overkill - normally you use the hull as the bottom and one side of the shit tank.

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[nicholsong]

Karl

I have only just read the whole of this thread and I know the change for you s 5 years off, but maybe you will come back to this thread before then as there has been some good advice.

My experience of boats and MHs is that I had a sailing boat for 30 years and have had a MH for 9 years. With the sailing boat my canal experience was taking it through the French canals in April. At one time I had a plan to bring the sailig boat back to the French canals, park the mast and use it as a canal cruiser.

So far the discussion has surrounded around the following:-

1 'Narrowboat'

2 Narrow canals.

3 UK

Did you specify these criteria as being fixed? If so I missed it.

Therefore I am wondering if you have considered the following possibilities:-

1 A sailing boat - can you sail? Then you could spend some time in the Med.

If not the following suggestions might still apply

2 French canals - they are wider so you can have a beamier boat with more space. Pulling up anywhere along the bank is easy - I had two mooring stakes. It is like wildcamping.

3 You do not have to operate the locks - in my day 30 years ago there were lockeepers, but now all automatic I am told.

4 You could be further South, e.g. around Chalon-sur-Soane, better weather.

5 Internet for your work would still be available.

Just some thoughts.

Geoff

 

[Gromett]

Karl

I have only just read the whole of this thread and I know the change for you s 5 years off, but maybe you will come back to this thread before then as there has been some good advice.

My experience of boats and MHs is that I had a sailing boat for 30 years and have had a MH for 9 years. With the sailing boat my canal experience was taking it through the French canals in April. At one time I had a plan to bring the sailig boat back to the French canals, park the mast and use it as a canal cruiser.

So far the discussion has surrounded around the following:-

1 'Narrowboat'

2 Narrow canals.

3 UK

Did you specify these criteria as being fixed? If so I missed it.

Therefore I am wondering if you have considered the following possibilities:-

1 A sailing boat - can you sail? Then you could spend some time in the Med.

If not the following suggestions might still apply

2 French canals - they are wider so you can have a beamier boat with more space. Pulling up anywhere along the bank is easy - I had two mooring stakes. It is like wildcamping.

3 You do not have to operate the locks - in my day 30 years ago there were lockeepers, but now all automatic I am told.

4 You could be further South, e.g. around Chalon-sur-Soane, better weather.

5 Internet for your work would still be available.

Just some thoughts.

Geoff

Thanks but it is definately a UK only, northern part of the country, canals and perhaps a little bit of river work. Currently the Trent to get from Retford to River witham/Coningsby. The two places where I have family. Cruising around between these two locations and added in side trips to newark, Lincoln etc etc should satisfy the Canal and River trust that I am a constant cruiser.

 

[Gromett]

The advantage of multiple cassettes is that you can always drive to an elsan point, even when your frozen in. Although I did always worry about someone driving into the back of me when I had mine in transport!

The galvanically isolated stainless steel tank might be a bit overkill - normally you use the hull as the bottom and one side of the shit tank.

I am a solo traveller so no car. I won't be driving casettes anywhere. I think I will stick to the tank.

The reason for galvanically isolated stainless steel is I have seen way too many videos of people with issues with the tanks and the nasty clean up job after. One had a steel tank that fully gave way round the inlets/outlets. The others mainly had plastic tanks at floor level with the toilet mounted on top.

If I am going to do this I want it done properly. The problem with a stainless steel tank is galvanic corrosion if it was bolted to the mild steel hull. Want to avoid that hence the galvanically isolated bit. Not hard to do. By the time I am ready to do the boat, I should have my tig welding kit, and I have a friend who is a professional welder who specialises in aluminium and stainless steel. I will be pestering him for some training. Need to learn how to use the gas purge and flood gear.

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[Eggs]

All grey water gets pumped straight into the cut.

 

[Gromett]

Technically welding is NOT a form of gluing. Gluing is bonding two distinct subjects together with an adhesive compound. Welding is fusing two pieces of metal together using heat. A properly done weld will never come apart, whereas 2 glued surfaces can come apart due to environmental issues.



For metal to rust you need 3 things. Moisture, air and an electrolytic compound.
A narrow boat being in fresh water is lacking in the latter although there is just enough for the process to take place naturally but not as much as a salted road will have. Which is why cars and sea going metal boats rust away and canal boats do not (in the same time frame).

You will note that whilst a sea going vessel has zinc sacrificial anodes. A canal boat has magnesium ones. This is due to the resistivity of the water which is directly related to the concentration of the electrolyte.

Canal boats tend to rust at the water line not well below the surface because a Canal is not agitated that much there is no much oxygen below the water line, unlike in a river or in the sea.
Obviously canal boats will rust, but it takes much longer, and if you religiously re-black every 2-3 years you should be able to pretty much prevent rusting from the outside.
If you two part spray foam the interior, you are preventing moisture from touching the inside of the hull and thus there should be no rust.

To be honest, if I buy a second had one, I will be looking for one that hasn't been replated and still has a decent thickness left. I will get it shot blasted and two part expoxied. Then haul it out ever 2-3 for inspection still. Best of both worlds there.

Grey water goes straight overboard on a canal boat. Yup, this surprised me too, and I am so glad I refused that invite to go swimming in the Canal that hot summer 20 years ago.
100L black tank is more than enough for me for 5+ weeks.

If I was to go the stainless steel route, I would have my work overseen by a pro. He is a good friend and we help each other on stuff like this. I would want to do it myself though as a learning experience and to get my hand back in on tig welding which I have done since 1990.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Interestingly though the Lotus Elise sports cars have Ali Chassis that is glued together (not sure its out of a bottle though)

Sorry for the drift

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[Eggs]

Toilet tank can be emptied direct into rivers, that should read, some rivers.

 

[Paddywack]

Toilet tank can be emptied direct into rivers, that should read, some rivers.

Not legally it can't .

I had to take the bearded one (Branson) to task twenty odd years ago when the boat he owned at Little Venice, occupied by his sister at this stage, was depositing a little pile of presents on the frozen canal.

He was chairman of the Tidy Britain charity at the time, hypocrite .

 

[Eggs]

Not legally it can't .

I had to take the bearded one (Branson) to task twenty odd years ago when the boat he owned at Little Venice, occupied by his sister at this stage, was depositing a little pile of presents on the frozen canal.

He was chairman of the Tidy Britain charity at the time, hypocrite .

I did say, "some rivers", no mention of the canal.

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[Paddywack]

I did say, "some rivers", no mention of the canal.

Still illegal under the 1991 act.

 

[Eggs]

Still illegal under the 1991 act.

Toilet waste can still go into the.

Nene.
Middle level.
Great Ouse.

No chemicals.

Those are the local'ish ones to where I live. I'm almost sure there are more.

 

[Gromett]

In air there is moisture. The moisture in our air contains extremely tiny amounts of electrolytic compounds.

If you deprive steel of either air or water then rust cannot occur.

The level of electrolyte in the water dictates the speed this occurs at.

Salt is a pretty good electrolyte which is why ocean going boats and cars on heavily salted roads corrode so fast when not protected.

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[Gromett]

No I am not on about temperature differential at altitude. Steel in order to rust requires oxygen and water. Hence why in your previous post you mentioned steel rusting indoors I mentioned moisture in the air. I am not sure why you are bringing up lapse rates.

The lapse rate is the rate at which temperature in Earth's atmosphere decreases with an increase in altitude, or increases with the decrease in altitude

.



Acid rain is caused by something quite different. This is caused by Sulphur hence the push to remove sulphur from power stations smoke stacks and the move to low sulphur diesel.

Modern paint and a lot of old school coatings such as the blacking used on boats is extremely effective at totally stopping rust. The problems only occur when the coating is abraded by running aground or against the sides of the canal allowing the air/water to come in contact with the steel.

The same is true of your car. You car doesn't rust all over, only where the coating breaks down usual due to coating being damaged.

 

[olley]

Sometimes airwave when your digging a hole, it's best to stop digging.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Sometimes airwave when your digging a hole, it's best to stop digging.

Maybe he’s looking for rust

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