The Hills are Burning (1 Viewer)

[Stewart J]

Its that time of the year again when the self proclaimed guardians of our countryside burn vast areas of heather to promote new growth to help artificially boost grouse numbers so big bags can be shot for profit. Never mind releasing large amounts of CO2 from both the burn and the burnt peat, the environmental impact is of no consequence in the strive for profit not forgetting the impact on the local populations health from ingesting the smoke and fumes. The RSPB is asking those who come across these burns to submit information and photographs but this should be done discretely, I was on a public road taking photos last week and was confronted very aggressively by the head gamekeeper of the estate.
If anyone would like to take part in the survey here is the link. https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwo...unity-action-can-help-call-for-ban-on-burning

 

[glenn2926]

Its that time of the year again when the self proclaimed guardians of our countryside burn vast areas of heather to promote new growth to help artificially boost grouse numbers so big bags can be shot for profit. Never mind releasing large amounts of CO2 from both the burn and the burnt peat, the environmental impact is of no consequence in the strive for profit not forgetting the impact on the local populations health from ingesting the smoke and fumes. The RSPB is asking those who come across these burns to submit information and photographs but this should be done discretely, I was on a public road taking photos last week and was confronted very aggressively by the head gamekeeper of the estate.
If anyone would like to take part in the survey here is the link. https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwo...unity-action-can-help-call-for-ban-on-burning

Not for much longer. They are only allowed to burn between October and April.

The council have banned shooting on their bit of the moor. Therefore the land isn’t making any money to pay for the management of the moor. After a few years of no management it will be so overgrown that a fire will be almost impossible to stop. Obviously the city green types will not be the ones fighting this fire it will be my ex watch mates and it will cause far more environmental damage.

 

[rb62]

On the other hand

Heather burning - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

75% of the worlds heather moorland is in the UK,it only survives because of the way it is managed.

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[Stewart J]

On the other hand

Heather burning - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

www.gwct.org.uk

75% of the worlds heather moorland is in the UK,it only survives because of the way it is managed.

No I prefer proven scientific research not the shooting industry spin, have you read the RSPB link ?

 

[glenn2926]

No I prefer proven scientific research not the shooting industry spin, have you read the RSPB link ?

Are you honestly trying to tell us that RSPB won’t have put their spin on it? Come on, you’re not that gullible.

 

[Stewart J]

One of the consequences, https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land

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[rb62]

Yes.

Here's an independant view,

https://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/273019/Exmoor-Moorland-Burning-research-write-up.pdf

of interest is this extract

'Moorland burning was being practiced for hundreds of years on Exmoor before it came under regulation, and led to the vegetation and wildlife assemblages that the regulations are now trying to protect. However it seems that these same regulations are in some areas acting to the detriment of the vegetation and therefore wildlife that they are there to protect. Changes need to be made to make management and grazing of moorland in Exmoor more economically viable, otherwise scrub and grass moorland will continue to encroach upon heather moorland habitat, and Exmoor‟s purple hills risk being lost'

 

[Stewart J]

Yes.

Here's an independant view,

https://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/273019/Exmoor-Moorland-Burning-research-write-up.pdf

of interest is this extract

'Moorland burning was being practiced for hundreds of years on Exmoor before it came under regulation, and led to the vegetation and wildlife assemblages that the regulations are now trying to protect. However it seems that these same regulations are in some areas acting to the detriment of the vegetation and therefore wildlife that they are there to protect. Changes need to be made to make management and grazing of moorland in Exmoor more economically viable, otherwise scrub and grass moorland will continue to encroach upon heather moorland habitat, and Exmoor‟s purple hills risk being lost'

Very true however the burning over tha last couple of decades has increased exponentially and is now on an industrial environmentally damaging scale so that a few very wealthy punters can pay thousands a day to shoot grouse and anything fur or feather that can impact on grouse numbers is considered vermin and is removed. What sort of future are we leaving and as stated in my original post this practice on such a scale is contributing to global warming and it’s all to do with maximising profit.
Broken Link Removed

 

[glenn2926]

Very true however the burning over tha last couple of decades has increased exponentially and is now on an industrial environmentally damaging scale

What you say is true, however having worked on both the landowner and firecrewing sides of this industry. I, as mostly a fireman would much rather try to deal with a wild (moor) fire on managed land than unmanaged land. Nobody manages land for no return so we are left with the shooting fraternity. They at least look after the high heather moors. Without this management the high heather moorland will quickly cease to exist which will cause great disruption for moorland wild life. The U.K. has the largest high heather moorland in the world. This isn’t through luck, this is through land management. I have no problem with the green types wanting this to stop providing they (the green types) Cary out, or pay someone to carry out this land management. I won’t hold my breath waiting for them to do so.

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[Stewart J]

What you say is true, however having worked on both the landowner and firecrewing sides of this industry. I, as mostly a fireman would much rather try to deal with a wild (moor) fire on managed land than unmanaged land. Nobody manages land for no return so we are left with the shooting fraternity. They at least look after the high heather moors. Without this management the high heather moorland will quickly cease to exist which will cause great disruption for moorland wild life. The U.K. has the largest high heather moorland in the world. This isn’t through luck, this is through land management. I have no problem with the green types wanting this to stop providing they (the green types) Cary out, or pay someone to carry out this land management. I won’t hold my breath waiting for them to do so.

The Heather Moorland we all see is not a natural environment but has been manipulated and created for grouse shooting.

Moorland: North York Moors National Park

description

www.northyorkmoors.org.uk

 

[glenn2926]

The Heather Moorland we all see is not a natural environment but has been manipulated and created for grouse shooting.

Moorland: North York Moors National Park

description

www.northyorkmoors.org.uk

True??? Why let it disappear?

 

[mitzimad]

i blame the french if we hadnt had the need for warships to fight the french it would all be woodland

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[glenn2926]

i blame the french if we hadnt had the need for warships to fight the french it would all be woodland

Very true. We needed to manage what was left after the deforestation to supply our navy with ships. Luckily the current landowners took it on and not the green, tree hugging yoghurt knitters.

 

[Winger]

I just love a grouse on a Sunday afternoon for tea!

 

[Otter Spotter]

I live a stones throw from Wandsworth moor and the damage caused by the Bannister clan is tremendous, furthermore inspite of the flooding of Hebden Bridge on a number of occasions, no proper flood prevention measures have been funded for Hebden, Mythomroyd Has had work done lower down the valley but that will not protect Hebden.
the only work for Hebden being done by volunteers who are building wooden damps designed to slow the flow.
it seems that Hebden is being left to the elements but I do not know why, maybe the higher ups don’t like ex hippy lesbians and anti social social workers, who are perceived to be the main occupants of the town by some. Not me I add, my son lives very close.
I would like to see the moor restored to its former self with native trees where they should be, that would reduce flooding, restore the native flora and fauna and let the land heal. This will only happen when grouse shooting and it’s industries self interest ends.

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[trophychap]

If most of Scotland was deciduous woodland, you do all 100% realise that Red deer would be extinct too. They are reforesting tranches of it right now and are hence having to kill off more deer than normal because red deer cannot survive in woodland full stop. So female deer do not normally stray further than 2-3km from where they are born and if you plant trees, you drive them away and thus the further places become overpopulated, so not enough natural feed to support the greater numbers and they just starve to death, so less hale & healthy ones to breed from and gradually numbers dwindle so far it's too late.

Whereas when properly organised commercial shoots can happen, the income from that and the wild venison thus available, pays for all the rural (food & associated) workers on the Scottish moors managing the environment and the livestock for everyone's benefit. You ALWAYS need to look a lot further than the end of your nose into these things before deciding it's all wrong and has to be stopped. It's touch and go up there by now anyway with the lack of income caused by the pandemic.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Easier to “ignore” this than endure a trip to Coventry

 

[Ivory55]

It’s like everything in life it’s money. If there was no shooting who would pay for looking after the moors etc . Nobody but nobody does anything for free.

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[Pappy]

If most of Scotland was deciduous woodland, you do all 100% realise that Red deer would be extinct too. They are reforesting tranches of it right now and are hence having to kill off more deer than normal because red deer cannot survive in woodland full stop. So female deer do not normally stray further than 2-3km from where they are born and if you plant trees, you drive them away and thus the further places become overpopulated, so not enough natural feed to support the greater numbers and they just starve to death, so less hale & healthy ones to breed from and gradually numbers dwindle so far it's too late.

Whereas when properly organised commercial shoots can happen, the income from that and the wild venison thus available, pays for all the rural (food & associated) workers on the Scottish moors managing the environment and the livestock for everyone's benefit. You ALWAYS need to look a lot further than the end of your nose into these things before deciding it's all wrong and has to be stopped. It's touch and go up there by now anyway with the lack of income caused by the pandemic.

The red deer's natural habitat is not moorland, but mixed forest. Not intensive conifer forests though. They were driven to the high mountains and moorland, but that is not where they thrive best.
Moorland managed for shoots is a fairly sterile environment.

 

[ctc]

Luckily some of the bird hunters shoot each other.

 

[mitzimad]

If most of Scotland was deciduous woodland, you do all 100% realise that Red deer would be extinct too. They are reforesting tranches of it right now and are hence having to kill off more deer than normal because red deer cannot survive in woodland full stop. So female deer do not normally stray further than 2-3km from where they are born and if you plant trees, you drive them away and thus the further places become overpopulated, so not enough natural feed to support the greater numbers and they just starve to death, so less hale & healthy ones to breed from and gradually numbers dwindle so far it's too late.

Whereas when properly organised commercial shoots can happen, the income from that and the wild venison thus available, pays for all the rural (food & associated) workers on the Scottish moors managing the environment and the livestock for everyone's benefit. You ALWAYS need to look a lot further than the end of your nose into these things before deciding it's all wrong and has to be stopped. It's touch and go up there by now anyway with the lack of income caused by the pandemic.

so where did the red deer come from?

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[Stewart J]

so where did the red deer come from?

Red Deer - Deer Species - The British Deer Society

Red deer are Britain’s largest land mammal, a fully grown stag can weigh between 90 and 190 kg and stand up to 1.37m at the shoulder.

www.bds.org.uk

 

[Otter Spotter]

Isn’t it the case Trophychap, that the Caledonian Forrest along with many other forests need rebuilding, for the sake of the planet, but Deer left to their own devices would not let the young trees flourish, so the deer need culling. Shooting just makes a business out of the Deer, so if there could be a balance produced, the shooters could have their sport and it is a sport as well as a business, and the young trees would get their chance. With more trees the carbon could be sequestered helping the planet.
Over time shooting as a business will die a natural death as less and less people feel the need to kill with lead and so the estates will find other ways to raise cash as some are going now at Nepp, and Allandale and a few others by realising nature in its natural state will attract people on safaris for photography and letting people just get back to nature on retreats etc. This generates money for the local economy.

Once the old male tweed guard die out and are replaced with people who care for the planet and not just their little enclave, we should see the land change to be more balanced and become healthier.
Don‘t get me wrong I have met many gamekeepers, and most are really nice people, but set in their Victorian ways of estate management, the only thing that’s different for them is they use landis and quads instead of horses. I do take issue with them over the treatment of raptors and Owls but that is a much bigger issue which should involve more prosecutions.

 

[mitzimad]

Red Deer - Deer Species - The British Deer Society

Red deer are Britain’s largest land mammal, a fully grown stag can weigh between 90 and 190 kg and stand up to 1.37m at the shoulder.

www.bds.org.uk

thats what i was asking were these deer there when it was decidous woodlands if so why would the become extinct?

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[Otter Spotter]

Just to add fuel to the fire, if Wolves were allowed back into Scotland they would become the natural predator of the Red deer and they woukd bring down the deer herds to manageable proportion, but that would put the Gamekeepers out of work, in turn having wolves reducing Deer numbers, increases the number of successful trees, thus reducing carbon and slowing the flow of flood water.

it’s all about about balance, currently the land use is geared to feeding the pockets of the landowners who in turn just throw crumbs to the locals.

 

[Ivory55]

Just to add fuel to the fire, if Wolves were allowed back into Scotland they would become the natural predator of the Red deer and they woukd bring down the deer herds to manageable proportion, but that would put the Gamekeepers out of work, in turn having wolves reducing Deer numbers, increases the number of successful trees, thus reducing carbon and slowing the flow of flood water.

it’s all about about balance, currently the land use is geared to feeding the pockets of the landowners who in turn just throw crumbs to the locals.

But isn’t that how the majority of businesses work, land owner or share holders all the same.

 

[Otter Spotter]

But isn’t that how the majority of businesses work, land owner or share holders all the same.

Change the way they work then

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[Stewart J]

Worth a read from Mark Avery.

Regrets, we have a few – Mark Avery