The future of full timing based in the UK? (1 Viewer)

TonyC123

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Once again I must apologise, as I cant see this topic raised in a recent thread, but I feel sure it must come up for discussion regularly.
There are a few factors which seem likely to develop over the next 10 years or so, and which might influence how people go about the business of full-timing.
These are a couple of the potential issues that might arise:
There is the possibility of increases in tax on fossil fuels over the next 10-15 years- not a decisive increase maybe, but I would expect there to be increases as the profile of the coming climate problems continue to increase, and government efforts to discourage combustion engines start to ramp up.
There is also the issue of increasing restrictions. I believe Fife is considering introducing regulations forbidding camping in vehicles outside of designated locations (which will have some services, and be charged for). Portugal has I believe also just introduced a ban on wild camping.
We don't know if this is part of a growing trend to restrict the freedom of motorhomes and campervans, or just isolated moves- but I am getting the impression that the level of antagonism towards motorhomes is increasing as the numbers of them increase year on year, and the no parking/sleeping signs are reportedly becoming more common.
The pandemic seems to have crystallised a lot of anti-motorhome sentiment as well. There are numerous tales of wild campers being harassed and even threatened by local vigilante groups in rural areas, and struggling to find safe locations free of harassment by locals or police.
Europe would have been a potential haven for full timers, but after 31 Dec we are limited to 3 months our of 6 in any part of the Schengen region, (broadly speaking).
I personally believe there will be a continuation of some level of the antipathy towards motorhomers even after the lockdown is fully over. But who knows?
So are these potential future issues affecting the thinking and the planning of full timers, or "most-timers"?
Are you considering packing it in at some point, if it becomes too restricted for your preference?
Has the hostility towards motorhomers during the lockdown made you change plans or reconsider the long term future?
Or are you carrying on regardless and have no concerns about the future issues?
As I'm planning to splash up to 60k on a MH in August, I'd be interested to know people's long term plans and ideas, and whether you've considered alternatives- caravanning maybe? Personally, as I want to stay mainly on CLs anyway, and wild camp maybe 100 nights a year, the lockdown hostility or future fuel cost increases probably won't change my plans or expectations.
 

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This is one of those issue that spark a lot of debate. I have camped in service station in France mainly to get some much needed shut eye .
I have to say that when I have been travelling in a group we have stoped now and again Stoped with a view of the sea .
but what upset me is when motor homer leave rubbish and worst on the sites after wild camping that is the real problem.
my wife and I do feel safer on a camp site given the cost of my rig it’s a small price to pay
to say the least
happy days
 
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TonyC123

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This is one of those issue that spark a lot of debate. I have camped in service station in France mainly to get some much needed shut eye .
I have to say that when I have been travelling in a group we have stoped now and again Stoped with a view of the sea .
but what upset me is when motor homer leave rubbish and worst on the sites after wild camping that is the real problem.
my wife and I do feel safer on a camp site given the cost of my rig it’s a small price to pay
to say the least
happy days

I think one of the reasons Fife council gave for controlling MHs was the level of human waste they were having to deal with (of all types).
It is a sad fact of human nature that there will always be a small minority who abuse a benefit or a situation up to the point that it gets withdrawn from everyone. But is it looking likely that the freedoms of motorhoming will be withdrawn on a wider scale?

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68c

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One can only hope less regimented campsites will pop up, albeit in a gated area they would only need limited facilities and given enough space may satisfy the full time campers. Imagine a large partially wooded area with space and perhaps a view. As these folk would stay for lengthy periods the local economy could benifit from the necessary shopping. Of course I have heard rumours that some like to wild camp to avoid the cost of fees. I am sure that cannot be true as they would surely like to contribute to any clean up required after their stay, even if its only making good any damage to the grass etc.
 

Langtoftlad

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One can only hope less regimented campsites will pop up, albeit in a gated area they would only need limited facilities and given enough space may satisfy the full time campers. Imagine a large partially wooded area with space and perhaps a view.
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When an application is made in my area for even a temporary holiday site every caravan site in the county lodges an objection. I don't see any new sites, however basic, ever being granted planning permission. We have had a few CL's and CS's open in the past 20 years.

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TonyC123

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When an application is made in my area for even a temporary holiday site every caravan site in the county lodges an objection. I don't see any new sites, however basic, ever being granted planning permission. We have had a few CL's and CS's open in the past 20 years.

I think if the authorities ever make serious moves to restrict MH wildcamping, they will have to accept more applications for camp sites, otherwise where will the existing wildcampers go?
The Highland Council are apparently already considering levying a tax on all visiting MHs, based on number plate recognition:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50670896
There is a significant population of UK people living in vans who cannot necessarily afford the cost even of a CL every day of the year, and levying visitor charges will deter a good number of them from visiting the Highlands.
I don't see English tourist areas ever following this route (maybe the Lake District?), but even a tax of £10 per day for MHs will rule out Scotland as a long-stay destination for people full timing on a small budget.
What they can't do is extract a daily fee for being in the areas, and then force people to stay on paid sites as well. I think they would surely lose too much money.
I dont see how England can ever move to ban wild camping in MHs, as Fife seems to be trying to do. It's just too widespread, and there are too many people who would be made homeless overnight if it was banned.
 

PeteH

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Can O Worms time.! It`s the old story which the UK`s "authorities" use time and again, Instead of properly executing their duty by catching and prosecuting the offenders, Fly tippers, Illegal Traveller sites, Littering, vandalism. Lets face it the list is Endless. What do they do?. What they always do, aim a blanket ban at all and sundry. It`s the standard reaction from Bureaucracy. The only people that are affected are those who`s "Normal" is to spend a day or (maybe) 2, and leave without leaving behind more than footprints. The "Scum" always are ahead of the game when it comes to anything antisocial and are prepared to back it with threats and violence (where has that come up recently?).

They already have the Laws to deal with this issue, get on with detection, and prosecute!.

As for homelessness?. There has been an upsurge in "van living" in recent times, those who can get any old Vehicle live in them often in virtual squalor. The reasons are complex, ranging from fear and security to not being able to get any sort of accommodation, or in some cases alcoholism, and drug use. THAT IMV is an issue for social service departments. Who`s visions are focused on the "children" Many of whom are only in "poverty" because the Parent(s) priorities are skewed. ( I`ve no money for food. But the 60" flatscreen, Hair done weekly, I-phone in hand, Pissed every Friday).
 
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Speaking as a full-timer who works six months of the year as a campsite assistant (wage, free pitch and electric), then staying on CLs and working the off-season in retail or van driving, wild-camping with my fifth wheel is not really an issue for me. But the future of motorhoming may well include local antipathy, fuel duty increases, limits on Schengen-area travel etc, so it does look like it will be more difficult to be the free spirit. Perhaps more people will be looking for longer stay locations, moving with the seasons. Like I do now.

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TonyC123

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Can O Worms time.! It`s the old story which the UK`s "authorities" use time and again, Instead of properly executing their duty by catching and prosecuting the offenders, Fly tippers, Illegal Traveller sites, Littering, vandalism. Lets face it the list is Endless. What do they do?. What they always do, aim a blanket ban at all and sundry. It`s the standard reaction from Bureaucracy. The only people that are affected are those who`s "Normal" is to spend a day or (maybe) 2, and leave without leaving behind more that footprints. The "Scum" always are ahead of the game when it comes to anything antisocial and are prepared to back it with threats and violence (where has that come up recently?).

They already have the Laws to deal with this issue, get on with detection, and prosecute!.

If Fife council succeed in banning people from staying in vans overnight, what happens if a tourer turns up at a recognised camping area and its full- which will be the case if there aren't enough of them put in place?
These places are not likely to have sophisticated booking systems, they are cheap with basic if any services.
They can't prosecute people who camp adjacent to an official site because its full- or can they?
 
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TonyC123

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Speaking as a full-timer who works six months of the year as a campsite assistant (wage, free pitch and electric), then staying on CLs and working the off-season in retail or van driving, wild-camping with my fifth wheel is not really an issue for me. But the future of motorhoming may well include local antipathy, fuel duty increases, limits on Schengen-area travel etc, so it does look like it will be more difficult to be the free spirit. Perhaps more people will be looking for longer stay locations, moving with the seasons. Like I do now.

I must admit I looked at the idea of a 5th wheel because of the space and the facilities, but I was put off by the limited ability to wild camp, what with the overall length of the rig.
The issues I've mentioned are probably more long term in nature- so it might be ten years from now before fuel starts getting expensive enough that people use your type of pattern, i.e. moving less often.
It could become quite expensive for people to drive all over the countryside looking for a nice spot, even assuming they are allowed to stay there.
Thankfully CLs and CSs in Scotland are cheap enough to be used as successive 28 day bases if there is ever a wildcamping ban in Scotland. But I think the approach will not be to ban it, but instead to levy a daily fee from MH drivers, and continue to allow wildcamping.
And I just cant imagine wildcamping ever being banned in England. Its just not feasible is it?
 

PeteH

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If Fife council succeed in banning people from staying in vans overnight, what happens if a tourer turns up at a recognised camping area and its full- which will be the case if there aren't enough of them put in place?
These places are not likely to have sophisticated booking systems, they are cheap with basic if any services.
They can't prosecute people who camp adjacent to an official site because its full- or can they?
I suppose they can Try?. Of course, I suspect no judge or magistrate would wish to fine someone who was acting responsibly by taking rest from driving? After all there are roadside signage even, warning not to drive tired?.

Strangely "Wild camping" has never been a big part of my life. I did more in the USA than I ever do over here. Mostly it`s a Pub stopover type one night, en route to some specific site or function. America, was for me, THE place to Boon-dock. But we had 60gall water 60 gall Black and 60 of grey capacity, and a Genny if we wanted. We spent a week in the Arizona Desert. Star gazing and watching wildlife. Moved a couple of times. The BLM guy came by and chatted. Similar by Big Sur. 2 Nights within 50 yards of the Pacific Ocean, watching the sun set by a Fire, near Carmel. That to me is wild camping. not some roadside in the UK.

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Camdoon

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If Fife council succeed in banning people from staying in vans overnight, what happens if a tourer turns up at a recognised camping area and its full- which will be the case if there aren't enough of them put in place?
These places are not likely to have sophisticated booking systems, they are cheap with basic if any services.
They can't prosecute people who camp adjacent to an official site because its full- or can they?
Camping-Car Parking have a system set up in France such that that something similar could be undertaken. CCP are taking over municipal Aires.
You can drive from one side of Fife to the other in and hour so passing the issue onto East Lothian, Perthshire or Angus. The others then fall in line, include the NC500 and you have a viable network.
With adequate Aire facilities the West Sands at St Andrews could easily swallow as many vans as required.
 
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TonyC123

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Camping-Car Parking have a system set up in France such that that something similar could be undertaken. CCP are taking over municipal Aires.
You can drive from one side of Fife to the other in and hour so passing the issue onto East Lothian, Perthshire or Angus. The others then fall in line, include the NC500 and you have a viable network.
With adequate Aire facilities the West Sands at St Andrews could easily swallow as many vans as required.

If they are going to increase controls on vans, I would personally rather see a daily charging system than an outright ban on wildcamping.
The article gives the impression that the Highland Council are looking to implement some changes within a few years, and I think they have several objectives: primarily they want to get some more cash from MH visitors, but also to reduce the amount of refuse left in public places (not sure how a daily charge achieved that one though), and also to reduce the overall number of MHs in certain areas. They would prefer all NC500 tourers to only use camp sites, but I dont think there are enough for all the summer traffic- so if that became a rule, they would lose visitor numbers because of the limited campsite capacity.
It seems as if the Highland Council perceive the increasing MH numbers as a problem- and they seem to be slowly working towards some sort of solution that I suspect many MHers wont like.
 
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.... and there are too many people who would be made homeless overnight if it was banned.

This is very true and I wonder if the full-timing population is actually including a number of people for whom there is no other option
I suppose they can Try?. Of course, I suspect no judge or magistrate would wish to fine someone who was acting responsibly by taking rest from driving? After all there are roadside signage even, warning not to drive tired?.

Strangely "Wild camping" has never been a big part of my life. I did more in the USA than I ever do over here. Mostly it`s a Pub stopover type one night, en route to some specific site or function. America, was for me, THE place to Boon-dock. But we had 60gall water 60 gall Black and 60 of grey capacity, and a Genny if we wanted. We spent a week in the Arizona Desert. Star gazing and watching wildlife. Moved a couple of times. The BLM guy came by and chatted. Similar by Big Sur. 2 Nights within 50 yards of the Pacific Ocean, watching the sun set by a Fire, near Carmel. That to me is wild camping. not some roadside in the UK.
Yes, the US Lower 48 states are indeed what we all dream about. I lived up in Alaska for 15 years, and RV use was very much linked to other activities like fishing, hiking, attending spring and summer events (Arctic Man Snowmachine and Ski Classic, Midnight Sun Festival etc). I recall boondocking in the Alaska Range, on a gravel highway pullout, after picking up my dad from the airport. He was somewhat shocked at the 44magnum on my hip as we cooked steaks!

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Camdoon

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If they are going to increase controls on vans, I would personally rather see a daily charging system than an outright ban on wildcamping.
The article gives the impression that the Highland Council are looking to implement some changes within a few years, and I think they have several objectives: primarily they want to get some more cash from MH visitors, but also to reduce the amount of refuse left in public places (not sure how a daily charge achieved that one though), and also to reduce the overall number of MHs in certain areas. They would prefer all NC500 tourers to only use camp sites, but I dont think there are enough for all the summer traffic- so if that became a rule, they would lose visitor numbers because of the limited campsite capacity.
It seems as if the Highland Council perceive the increasing MH numbers as a problem- and they seem to be slowly working towards some sort of solution that I suspect many MHers wont like.
I am sure any constraints on the way we operate now would not be popular. Numbers are increasing and driving a motorway around the NC500 would kill the Golden Goose.
My in-laws live in the Central Belt and if I bought a second cassette could do the 500 without spending a penny north of Perth.
I am sure the locals would rather have 1 van spending averaging £50 a day than 10 vans at £5.
 
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My take on it as a newish albeit sort of full timer (it's for a year or so for me) is i haven't seen the vitriol being described by some but full timing during a lockdown is tricky because it's hard to access facilities.

If you want to full time you need a certain mindset and must not be the type of person that worries about every little thing or what it says on a sign in a carpark. You need to be willing to push the boundaries and just enjoy what life throws at you. My home town has a long history of van dwellers and it helps to be part of that community and get to know places you can stay.
 

Jim

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Don't over think it the lifestyle will be around to a long time yet. But not in a free loading way, full timers will have to pay a lot more than many do now as they will be forced onto CLs and sites.

The big problem is #vanlife. Whereas fulll timers have been quietly living in vans all over Europe for countless decades. These new, young vanlifers are not content to just live, they have to share. These guys and girls have hundreds of thousands of wannabe followers on twitter and insta and thousands of those buy a van, and start their own channel encouraging even more.

I'm not mad at these youngsters, truth be told I'm jealous. It's their life to live But something has to give as van lifers clog up streets, laybys and carparks. We're following the US in this regard and the big crackdown on vandwellers has already started there.

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TonyC123

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My take on it as a newish albeit sort of full timer (it's for a year or so for me) is i haven't seen the vitriol being described by some but full timing during a lockdown is tricky because it's hard to access facilities.

If you want to full time you need a certain mindset and must not be the type of person that worries about every little thing or what it says on a sign in a carpark. You need to be willing to push the boundaries and just enjoy what life throws at you. My home town has a long history of van dwellers and it helps to be part of that community and get to know places you can stay.

I'm planning to use CLs etc for most of the time, so finding wild camping spots won't be a daily thing for me, but I've always been one of those people who followed every parking sign or regulation, so it is a new way of thinking to be actively stretching the rules wherever possible- but it is what it is.
I want to spend as much time in Europe as possible too, where there are (reportedly) more facilities, a bit more space, and a more positive attitude from locals towards MHers.

On the vitriol thing, I think it was mainly rural folks getting angry at a significant number of city-based van dwellers in late March heading out to the countryside, potentially bringing the virus out into the rural areas, and putting them at risk. Perhaps there has always been a degree of resentment there, and the pandemic risks brought it into stronger focus.

This youtube video describes one example. It was recorded by an English van dweller, an ex-forces guy, who has been living in his van in the Caithness area for 5 years, and who was questioned by a gang of locals who saw his van parked up.
Warning strong language throughout)
 

PeteH

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Camping-Car Parking have a system set up in France such that that something similar could be undertaken. CCP are taking over municipal Aires.
You can drive from one side of Fife to the other in and hour so passing the issue onto East Lothian, Perthshire or Angus. The others then fall in line, include the NC500 and you have a viable network.
With adequate Aire facilities the West Sands at St Andrews could easily swallow as many vans as required.
Is there not a Bloody great Grass area with sand pits. that could be used?
 
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TonyC123

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Don't over think it the lifestyle will be around to a long time yet. But not in a free loading way, full timers will have to pay a lot more than many do now as they will be forced onto CLs and sites.

The big problem is #vanlife. Whereas fulll timers have been quietly living in vans all over Europe for countless decades. These new, young vanlifers are not content to just live, they have to share. These guys and girls have hundreds of thousands of wannabe followers on twitter and insta and thousands of those buy a van, and start their own channel encouraging even more.

I'm not mad at these youngsters, truth be told I'm jealous. It's their life to live But something has to give as van lifers clog up streets, laybys and carparks. We're following the US in this regard and the big crackdown on vandwellers has already started there.

I'm getting the impression there is an increasing number of vans of all types- ranging from nice motorhomes with retired couples to out-of-luck youngsters who cant afford housing, or who find that living in a van just suits them and do a basic conversion on a 25 year old van- and everything in between.
Many of the #vanlifers have found a way of subsisting on the road via youtube or an online earner of some sort, and they are enjoying the travelling lifestyle, albeit usually on a budget.
Its hard to be critical of these folks, because they are making the most of life as they want to.
But are the increasing numbers of MHers of all types in the UK going to become a problem at some point? Either by causing resentment by flooding rural beauty spots with dozens of vans, or by provoking government into imposing some sort of controls on wildcamping?

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TonyC123

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I'm getting the impression there is an increasing number of vans of all types- ranging from nice motorhomes with retired couples to out-of-luck youngsters who cant afford housing, or who find that living in a van just suits them and do a basic conversion on a 25 year old van- and everything in between.
Many of the #vanlifers have found a way of subsisting on the road via youtube or an online earner of some sort, and they are enjoying the travelling lifestyle, albeit usually on a budget.
Its hard to be critical of these folks, because they are making the most of life as they want to.
But are the increasing numbers of MHers of all types in the UK going to become a problem at some point? Either by causing resentment by flooding rural beauty spots with dozens of vans, or by provoking government into imposing some sort of controls on wildcamping?
And bear in mind the numbers of UK van owners will go up because of the travel restrictions coming after 31 Dec, and also after the pandemic. People are looking much more at Uk holiday and travel options.
 

Garry - June

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Funny you should mention restrictions being imposed in Portugal....we spend lots of time there as we love it and the people, and areas of Spain are doing the same....the clampdowns are coming because of all the wild campers....there are actually many land owners who want to open sites/aires...and there are plenty to choose from now...and they are not expensive...we spent months on them paying 3eu a night on one.....4eu on another.....yet only 20m away people were still parking up for free in areas they shouldn't ….this isn't negativity to Motorhomes....its exasperation with freeloaders who pay nothing and leave waste wherever they go..

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The big problem is #vanlife. Whereas fulll timers have been quietly living in vans all over Europe for countless decades. These new, young vanlifers are not content to just live, they have to share.

Spot on. If you are a bit overweight and not the prettiest/most handsome specimen, you can't expect to buy a new dress/suit have your hair done and post some pictures on the internet and get everyone saying you look lovely, but that is what the #vanlife lot expect, they expect everyone to think what they are doing is great.

They are happy to live off their YouTube income but not to take any criticism, one in particular really riles me.
 
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TonyC123

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Spot on. If you are a bit overweight and not the prettiest/most handsome specimen, you can't expect to buy a new dress/suit have your hair done and post some pictures on the internet and get everyone saying you look lovely, but that is what the #vanlife lot expect, they expect everyone to think what they are doing is great.

They are happy to live off their YouTube income but not to take any criticism, one in particular really riles me.

I think unless there are some significant jumps in battery technology before they ban all new vehicles sales with internal combustion engines in 2035 (at least to private owners), the long term future for any nomadic lifestyle looks uncertain after say 2040.
Owners of existing vehicles will presumably be permitted to continue running them if roadworthy, but the costs of repairing and maintaining them will gradually increase as they get older, and fuel tax will almost certainly go up a lot which will reduce the miles they can afford to cover, and the govt will try be trying various means to get the older gas-guzzlers off the road.
Even batteries are not a great solution, in terms of cost. There are some electric charging points on motorways which now charge more for the electricity than it would cost to do the same journey in a Jaguar V12, and the profiteering will only increase as they gain a captive market.
And then there is the range issue. Even if the boffins can stretch to 150 miles for a big heavy vehicle, how will people find enough places to charge a 3.5 ton motorhome in the wilds of northern Scotland, without paying exorbitantly for the electricity?
Unless we develop some form of unlimited nuclear or other energy source (that doesn't ruin the climate), I think people may have to accept in 20 years time that the days of travelling freely and living cheaply in heavy vehicles are drawing to a close.
Maybe the rise of the caravan will be in 2040? :giggle:
 
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I think unless there are some significant jumps in battery technology before they ban all new vehicles sales with internal combustion engines in 2035 (at least to private owners), the long term future for any nomadic lifestyle looks uncertain after say 2040.
Owners of existing vehicles will presumably be permitted to continue running them if roadworthy, but the costs of repairing and maintaining them will gradually increase as they get older, and fuel tax will almost certainly go up a lot which will reduce the miles they can afford to cover, and the govt will try be trying various means to get the older gas-guzzlers off the road.
Even batteries are not a great solution, in terms of cost. There are some electric charging points on motorways which now charge more for the electricity than it would cost to do the same journey in a Jaguar V12, and the profiteering will only increase as they gain a captive market.
And then there is the range issue. Even if the boffins can stretch to 150 miles for a big heavy vehicle, how will people find enough places to charge a 3.5 ton motorhome in the wilds of northern Scotland, without paying exorbitantly for the electricity?
Unless we develop some form of unlimited nuclear or other energy source (that doesn't ruin the climate), I think people may have to accept in 20 years time that the days of travelling freely and living cheaply in heavy vehicles are drawing to a close.
Maybe the rise of the caravan will be in 2040? :giggle:
Those very same arguments were used against petrol engines when they first came out with horses being the established mode of transport....

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TonyC123

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Those very same arguments were used against petrol engines when they first came out with horses being the established mode of transport....

I'm honestly not being obtuse here, but I dont see the parallel at the moment- could you elaborate a bit on the comparisons between the arguments used against the original petrol engines, and against electric engines today?
The key arguments today against combustion engines are not a lack of fuel, but that we can't burn the fuel because its heating up our planet and put millions at great risk.
An equivalent premise 120 years ago might be this- we have to stop using horses, so let's find something else to get us about.
And the shortcomings of electric engines are still range- that is not a spurious argument, as were some of those against petrol engines. Electric vehicles have been available since the Sinclair C5 in the 80s, and there is still a range issue for people who need to cover longer distances, like motorhomers.
 

MisterB

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enough to know i shouldnt touch things i know nothing about ....
vanlifers are not the problem .... what harm do they do? all the ones i have viewed on youtube etc, seem to be pretty much keen on leaving very little footprint on where they have been. However, there are others who live in vans that dont post on youtube that seem to cause problems wherever they go and sometimes leave a massive footprint on where they have been, that someone else has to pay for ..... some of them even have motorhomes, whether legally theirs or not.

i dont care what anyone lives in, how they earn their living etc but i do care when there is cost of that footprint to everyone else, whether it be financial or a loss of amenities, and that includes areas where you can park your motorhome and stay for one or two nights for free.
 
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I'm honestly not being obtuse here, but I dont see the parallel at the moment- could you elaborate a bit on the comparisons between the arguments used against the original petrol engines, and against electric engines today?
The key arguments today against combustion engines are not a lack of fuel, but that we can't burn the fuel because its heating up our planet and put millions at great risk.
An equivalent premise 120 years ago might be this- we have to stop using horses, so let's find something else to get us about.
And the shortcomings of electric engines are still range- that is not a spurious argument, as were some of those against petrol engines. Electric vehicles have been available since the Sinclair C5 in the 80s, and there is still a range issue for people who need to cover longer distances, like motorhomers.
I will play :p Let's say the year is 1908 and the Model T has just come out.

I currently have a horse that is fit and healthy and I can do 50 miles a day on it, it eats grass from the side of the tracks I travel on and doesn't require specialist maintenance. There are blacksmiths and vets everywhere. If I am travelling somewhere unknown I will also carry a bag of oats for hi,

You offer me a brand new Ford Model T that has a range of 20-30 miles and can only travel on roads of which there actually aren't that many. I have to find a chemist to supply me with the petroleum distillate and there is a good chance that chemist will know I am not from his village or town and will gouge me.

I need to get to Scotland for a new job... I don't know where the chemists are, I don't know if there is a gap in the route where there are no chemists and I don't know if the this new fangled Model T will even be able to get along all the tracks and trails along the way.

My horse will quite happily plod the 40 miles a day and at each inn I stop at I ask where the next one is on my route. The horse will snack on grass as I take breaks on the way between each inn and if necessary I will dig out the oat bag and feed him on the move.

I am leaving London because they are banning horses on the roads due to the huge amounts of manure that is piling up and I really can't see these new fangled petrol engines being the solution. They are not much faster than my horse at full gallop, break down regularly, need complicated skills to drive and I have to know where the local chemist is to get my supply of fuel not to mention my blacksmith doesn't know how to fix one when it breaks down.

I could go on but I think you get the point I am making.

A petrol car cannot go as far as a horse.
Supply of petrol in comparison to grass is a problem.
Skills to repair them are not that common in comparison to the established technology.
Price gouging caused by specialist skills required to supply the "go juice".
Resentment because existing tech is being pushed out of the market because it is dirty/disgusting.

Believe me, although the motorway services will price gouge as per usual, competition will mean that chargers spring up everywhere and anyone with a few quid and a bit of land can set up a solar backed, static battery stored charger station. Competition will ensure that you have not only cheap prices but plenty of choice.

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