The future for diesel (1 Viewer)

[Absolutelyalan]

I'm between mohos, having sold my Mobilvetta and am looking to downsize to something like a Duetto. The trouble is, I get a creeping feeling that diesel is gradually becoming a pariah, with more and more bad press associating diesel vehicles with asthma, early death rates, global warming, two-headed cattle and all sorts of other dire events. I understand that some German cities are already banning some vehicles, and driving through London in the type of vehicle I could afford (e.g. 1998/99 Transit-based Duetto) would cost me £100 per day!

Does anyone know or have a view on what is likely to happen generally? I'm a pensioner, so buying something with a Euro V or VI engine is out of the question, but I don't want to find myself having to scrap my vehicle in a few years time. Are there any modifications/ways around it? I believe there are filters that can be fitted, but at a cost of around £2000.

Any views from the huge knowledge bank on this forum would be welcome.

 

[funflair]

Do you want to drive through London, I don't.

I imagine diesel will be around for a while yet as there are no viable alternatives in New vehicles so used ones are going to be around for a while yet.

Martin

 

[Gromett]

If you worry about what might happen tomorrow you will never get anything done today.

Diesel will be around for a long time. There might be a scrappage scheme but it won't be compulsory and probably not high enough to be worth doing for motorhomes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Given that there are Euro 6 diesels being sold by the shedload right now, and there are millions of Euro 5's & 4's on the road, diesel powered vehicles will be around for the foreseeable future i.m.o.

 

[EX51SSS]

Just avoid any city that wants to charge you. Don't forget that the worst polluting vehicles bring you goods to consume every day.

 

[Badknee]

Don't worry you won't be on your own driving a spawn of the devil derv gobbler.
There is nothing that you live in, food you eat, furniture you sit on, carpet you walk on, even the vehicle you drive be it deisel petrol or electric that wasn't delivered by a deisel powered truck/van/train.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Absolutelyalan]

Thanks everyone. No Funfair, I certainly don't want to drive through London, although if you look at the London ECV it goes out to the suburbs. But my point is, if it's London today, where next - Bath, Manchester, York, Edinburgh.....? And yes, loads of Euro IV, V & VI engines are being sold, but not to pensioners like me. We have to shop in the 10 to 20 year-old market. OK, cue the violins!

 

[Louis]

That's the reason they began park & ride, but drivers still insisted on driving into large towns and cities!

 

[nicholsong]

Thanks everyone. No Funfair, I certainly don't want to drive through London, although if you look at the London ECV it goes out to the suburbs. But my point is, if it's London today, where next - Bath, Manchester, York, Edinburgh.....? And yes, loads of Euro IV, V & VI engines are being sold, but not to pensioners like me. We have to shop in the 10 to 20 year-old market. OK, cue the violins!

I presume a Duetto would be under 3500kg in which case it would not get caught by London LEZ rules(Idon't know what your 'ECV' means) So as far as UK is concerned if other cities followed London it would be OK.

However Germany and now France have rules where all vehicles, regardless of weight, are categorised by Euro engine emissions 1-6

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EuroTrotters]

£100 a day.

If Diesel is so bad, why let them in to begin with?.

Anyway, diesel is just pants!

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Having not given the LEZ a thought before, I thought I'd go see if/how it would impact our 2011 registered Ducato based van using the registration lookup/check. I was pleasantly surprised that we are (at the moment at least) in the clear...

No charge due for this vehicle
This vehicle either meets the required emission standards, is exempt from the scheme or is subject to a 100% discount.

That said, I don't see us making a beeline for the city.

I'm not sure which particular vehicles are affected by the following weight based statement on the website, I'm guessing the older ones?....

Check if your vehicle is affected
Motorised caravans
Over 2.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight.
May need to take action depending on registration date.

 

[EX51SSS]

Having not given the LEZ a thought before, I thought I'd go see if/how it would impact our 2011 registered Ducato based van using the registration lookup/check. I was pleasantly surprised that we are (at the moment at least) in the clear...

No charge due for this vehicle
This vehicle either meets the required emission standards, is exempt from the scheme or is subject to a 100% discount.

That said, I don't see us making a beeline for the city.

I'm not sure which particular vehicles are affected by the following weight based statement on the website, I'm guessing the older ones?....

Check if your vehicle is affected
Motorised caravans
Over 2.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight.
May need to take action depending on registration date.

Well mine is 3.5 tonnes and 13 years old and acceptable for LEZ.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JockandRita]

That's the reason they began park & ride, but drivers still insisted on driving into large towns and cities!

There aren't many P & Rs, where you can park up the MH for the day.

Well mine is 3.5 tonnes and 13 years old and acceptable for LEZ.

Petrol or LPG powered by any chance?

Ours is £200 a day if we are caught driving within the LEZ. In Germany, it's only a €40 fine, if you are non compliant. A bit of common sense applied there methinks.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Louis]

I

There aren't many P & Rs, where you can park up the MH for the day.


Petrol or LPG powered by any chance?

Ours is £200 a day if we are caught driving within the LEZ. In Germany, it's only a €40 fine, if you are non compliant. A bit of common sense applied there methinks.

Cheers,

Jock.

quite agree park & rides don't cater for all vehicles unfortunately

 

[olley]

The future for petrol isn't exactly rosy either, London is introducing the ULEZ in sep 2020 this covers petrol vehicles as well.
Not sure how I would be effected being dual fuel, not that I want to drive through London anyway.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EX51SSS]

Petrol or LPG powered by any chance?

Ours is £200 a day if we are caught driving within the LEZ. In Germany, it's only a €40 fine, if you are non compliant. A bit of common sense applied there methinks.

No. 2.3 Fiat diesel. I put my registration into the LEZ and it came back compliant.
However, we only transit London by night either through or on M25 at daytime (Dartford crossing). However, this time we went M6. M5, M42, M40 and to M25 so no tolls incurred or close enough to LEZ.
Have you put your registration into LEZ?

 

[gus-lopez]

I'm between mohos, having sold my Mobilvetta and am looking to downsize to something like a Duetto. The trouble is, I get a creeping feeling that diesel is gradually becoming a pariah, with more and more bad press associating diesel vehicles with asthma, early death rates, global warming, two-headed cattle and all sorts of other dire events. I understand that some German cities are already banning some vehicles, and driving through London in the type of vehicle I could afford (e.g. 1998/99 Transit-based Duetto) would cost me £100 per day!

Does anyone know or have a view on what is likely to happen generally? I'm a pensioner, so buying something with a Euro V or VI engine is out of the question, but I don't want to find myself having to scrap my vehicle in a few years time. Are there any modifications/ways around it? I believe there are filters that can be fitted, but at a cost of around £2000.

Any views from the huge knowledge bank on this forum would be welcome.

It is possible that you wouldn't fall foul of the LEZ up to 2,5T & diesel is exempt totally & 2,5T to 3,5 T dependant on age.

That's the reason they began park & ride, but drivers still insisted on driving into large towns and cities!

But the original P&R 's in Devon were nothing more than easy access to vehicles for the thieves. Additionally why do you want to park 3 fields away & get on a bud , especially in winter, with it full of sick people ? That's leaving aside the looneys that also make up a percentage.

Well mine is 3.5 tonnes and 13 years old and acceptable for LEZ.

& mine is 28 years old ,diesel, & exempt as I actually have to register with them being foreign plated . On the form they put "Euro 5" More like Euro -25

There aren't many P & Rs, where you can park up the MH for the day.


Petrol or LPG powered by any chance?

Ours is £200 a day if we are caught driving within the LEZ. In Germany, it's only a €40 fine, if you are non compliant. A bit of common sense applied there methinks.

Cheers,

Jock.

That's £200/day AFTER you've paid the £1500 fine if caught for a second time. ( 1st you get a warning )

 

[JockandRita]

Have you put your registration into LEZ?

Oh yes Tony, back in early 2007, that's how we managed to get into the Abbey Wood site, and take in 3 x Thearte Shows, before the July 07 cut off date. The Reg No search came up as non compliant, hence the £200 daily robbery.

That's £200/day AFTER you've paid the £1500 fine if caught for a second time. ( 1st you get a warning )

I didn't know about the £1500 fine Gus. ..............

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Absolutelyalan]

I entered the reg number of my old van, 1999 based on Iveco Daily 2.8 and plated at 4.1 tonnes, and it came back as £200/day. So then I went onto EBay and found a 1999 Duetto where the seller had considerately not blanked out his reg number, entered that number on the LEZ site and got the quote of £100. Bargain!

EX5 1SSS, sorry to spoil your cunning plan, but I think you'll find the LEZ operates 24 hours a day, unlike the Congestion Charge.

The question is, how would they catch you? Would you have to go through the Congestion Zone cameras, or trigger a speed camera? Or do they rely on the boys in blue to check you, in which case there's not much chance of them bothering. They're so tight-stretched they don't have time to enforce the regular laws, let alone pick on motorhomers minding their own business.

As for P&Rs, from what I've seen a lot have height barriers. Some enlightened towns provide separate MH parking.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

1st October 2006 seems to be the magic date.

Even over 3.5t vehicles registered after that date seem to meet the standard.

This is odd because that date doesn't tie in with any of the updates to the Euro engine standards.

 

[nicholsong]

The question is, how would they catch you? Would you have to go through the Congestion Zone cameras, or trigger a speed camera? Or do they rely on the boys in blue to check you, in which case there's not much chance of them bothering. They're so tight-stretched they don't have time to enforce the regular laws, let alone pick on motorhomers minding their own business.

As for P&Rs, from what I've seen a lot have height barriers. Some enlightened towns provide separate MH parking.

They do not use the Congestion zone as that is only the centre, whereas the LEZ is, with a few patchy exceptions, everwhere inside the M25. They have dedicated cameras. I did work out a route avoiding them to get to my house, but there is always a risk of them putting up a new one. However now the MH is compliant.

Canterbury has two P+R which accept 'overheight' vehicles and the one at New Dover Road has Aire facilities for £3 midnight to midnight so £6 for a night's stay, but including up to six people on the bus as often as you like on day of arrival and day of departure.

At Edinburgh I was assured by City Parking Office that there was no height barrier at one P+R - Wrong! Had to beg a space at an Office, which was closed on Sat. maybe helped that we live in Poland and the Security guard was a nice young Polish lad.

Geoff

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

The question is, how would they catch you? Would you have to go through the Congestion Zone cameras, or trigger a speed camera? Or do they rely on the boys in blue to check you, in which case there's not much chance of them bothering. They're so tight-stretched they don't have time to enforce the regular laws, let alone pick on motorhomers minding their own business.

There are ANPR cameras all over London, not just in the congestion zone, and they WILL catch you.

There was someone on here, last year I think, who thought they would be clever and avoid the £2.50 toll on the QE2 bridge by going through London.

When they got back from their trip they discovered that their vehicle was not LEZ compliant and the detour to save £2.50 cost them considerably more.

 

[Manxcat]

Spent the day at the NEC yesterday, good fun saw lots of interesting vans, did not buy one. Asked about diesel future bug the salesman response was "Don't worry, nothing will happen any time soon"

In today's BBC news

A Federal court in Germany is due to decide whether banning diesel cars from entering cities is an acceptable way to cut urban air pollution.

If it concludes that such bans would be legitimate, analysts say, then authorities across Germany will come under pressure to introduce them. Carmakers could also face demands to make expensive modifications to millions of older cars, so that they meet the latest EU emissions standards.

The case was originally brought by an environmental group, which claimed not enough was being done to address poor air quality in the cities of Duessledorf and Stuttgart.

A lower court ruled last year that the most effective way to reduce pollution and protect public health in cities was to restrict the use of older diesels.

Glad I did not spend 60k yesterday.

 

[JockandRita]

@airwave. Can I ask, when did you last check your Reg No, on the TFL website? Ours is the same engine, (1999) and became non compliant within a short time of the LEZ being introduced.

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Robin McHood]

Checked our MB based 616CDI registered 2005 and comes back as no charge. It is Euro3 standard. Did ask on here if anyone knows of a conversion specialist who can do the work to convert it it Euro 5 or 6 to get around the German Umwelt requirements but so far the combined might of MHF hasn't come up with anything.

 

[tonyidle]

I've just checked mine on LEZ website It's 5.4T. Here's the answer I got:

LEZ wizard page

You are affected by the Low Emission Zone but already meet the emissions standards
You do not need to take any action.

Is your vehicle registered outside Great Britain? If so, you will need to register it with TfL.

How to register

You said your vehicle:

• runs on diesel
• weighs over 3.5 tonnes GVW
• was registered as new on or after 1 October 2006

TfL classifies your vehicle as a lorry or heavy specialist vehicle for LEZ purposes.

 

[JockandRita]

Nice one @airwaive. . I've just checked ours again, and although the same engine as yours, it's still a no no for us.


T860??? White FIAT
The £200 Daily LEZ Charge High is due for this vehicle
According to our records your vehicle is subject to the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High. This could be because your vehicle’s details are registered with us and it doesn’t meet the required Low Emission Zone standards.

If we don’t recognise your vehicle details then the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High automatically applies. (For example, if your vehicle is registered outside the United Kingdom.) If you believe your vehicle does meet the required standards, you will need to register it with us.

Until your vehicle is successfully registered you will need to pay the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High every time you drive it within the zone.

I just don't get it, nor with @tonyidle's results mentioning that his vehicle is a lorry, or a heavy specialist vehicle.

Cheers,

Jock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[tonyidle]

Nice one @airwaive. . I've just checked ours again, and although the same engine as yours, it's still a no no for us.


T860??? White FIAT
The £200 Daily LEZ Charge High is due for this vehicle
According to our records your vehicle is subject to the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High. This could be because your vehicle’s details are registered with us and it doesn’t meet the required Low Emission Zone standards.

If we don’t recognise your vehicle details then the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High automatically applies. (For example, if your vehicle is registered outside the United Kingdom.) If you believe your vehicle does meet the required standards, you will need to register it with us.

Until your vehicle is successfully registered you will need to pay the £200 Daily LEZ Charge High every time you drive it within the zone.

I just don't get it, nor with @tonyidle's results mentioning that his vehicle is a lorry, or a heavy specialist vehicle.

Cheers,

Jock.

I don't understand either. But it's a good result so I don't care - and I won't be visiting London anyway .