The best explanation I've seen of DSG (twin clutch) gearboxes.

[tonyidle]

Posted in case it's of interest:

 

[funflair]

Pity the sound went off just as it got interesting, what put me off these gearboxes when we changed our car was what I passed as a lot of unnecessary gear changes, ie selecting a lower gear off throttle but not changing the clutch as the driver then goes back on the throttle so the box redoes itself by selecting a higher gear.

 

[olley]

Interesting vid thanks. After the emissions scandal how much faith do you put in those numbers at the end?

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting, shame about the sound, I never reliased that it's effectivly 2 gearboxes with a clutch each, not what I expected.

 

[TheDogMan]

i Have a 6 speed DSG on my 2007 T5, done just under 100k and very happy

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[Jamesh]

Don't forget they need the oil replacing at 40k mine has done 60k. Will get it done soon.

Not quite as smooth as a good auto box.

Isn't that a narrator of how is it made?!

Cheers James

 

[mitzimad]

its the smoothest autobox ever you dont feel the changes at all i changed to fluid at 40k and what came out was clear .Altogether its an amazing piece of kit

 

[Jamesh]

Ours is in a t5.1 caravelle so probably works hard and does need an oil change.

Cheers James

 

[69473]

Had DSG in our 2019 California with the 150 bhp engine, brilliant combination. Auto box in our new Sprinter is good but not in the same league as the VW DSG.
Two minor criticisms, reversing a slight incline and creeping forward out of a junction need careful throttle control, easy to unexpectedly induce wheel spin.
Both regarded as characteristics of this gearbox by VW.

 

[Pausim]

Not quite as smooth as a good auto box.

My wife’s Audi has a DSG box and it is by far the best auto I have ever driven. Pulling away from standstill might be a little less smooth than a torque converter auto but after that the gear changes are seamless and lightning quick. I often find it has reached 4th, 5th or 6th gear without realising it has been through the other gears to get there.

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[tonyidle]

My only experience is of the one in the latest Smart car. It's brilliant but it has taken three iterations of crap robotic autos to finally change to something decent.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I still like a conventional torque converter (torque multiplier) auto box in an ICE car. With lock-up in the higher gears there is little or no fuel consumption penalty. Mercedes claim theirs beats the manual box for economy. Advantages are smoother take-off from standstill, and easier parking using the inherent "creep", both of which seem to be DSG weak points requiring more driver skill. The DSG beats it on speed of gear changes, which seems like a very small gain in exchange for increased mechanical complexity and the inherent weak points of a dual mass flywheel and multiple mechanical clutches.

Best of all is the one speed gearbox such as the one in our hybrid Honda. Elegant engineering simplicity, and efficiency. Effectively, it has all the advantages of a torque converter (although it doesn't have a torque converter; instead there is electric propulsion that delivers full torque immediately) - it even has simulated "creep" to make it easy to park just using the brake pedal.

Average petrol consumption is about 25% less than the previous like-for-like Honda Jazz with a manual gearbox. Beat that, VW!

 

[tonyidle]

I still like a conventional torque converter (torque multiplier) auto box in an ICE car. With lock-up in the higher gears there is little or no fuel consumption penalty. Mercedes claim theirs beats the manual box for economy. Advantages are smoother take-off from standstill, and easier parking using the inherent "creep", both of which seem to be DSG weak points requiring more driver skill. The DSG beats it on speed of gear changes, which seems like a very small gain in exchange for increased mechanical complexity and the inherent weak points of a dual mass flywheel and multiple mechanical clutches.

Best of all is the one speed gearbox such as the one in our hybrid Honda. Elegant engineering simplicity, and efficiency. Effectively, it has all the advantages of a torque converter (although it doesn't have a torque converter; instead there is electric propulsion that delivers full torque immediately) - it even has simulated "creep" to make it easy to park just using the brake pedal.

Average petrol consumption is about 25% less than the previous like-for-like Honda Jazz with a manual gearbox. Beat that, VW!

Agree entirely about torque converter boxes.

 

[Gaston aires]

My only experience is of the one in the latest Smart car. It's brilliant but it has taken three iterations of crap robotic autos to finally change to something decent.

We have an older model Smart passion which tows well behind our van. Can the new Smart tow ? I hear not.
Phil

 

[tonyidle]

We have an older model Smart passion which tows well behind our van. Can the new Smart tow ? I hear not.
Phil

I'm not certain as I've always trailered mine.

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[Crazylegs]

The Dsg box has been around a long time, failures in the early days were the stuff of financial nightmares. Other manufacturers have similar gearboxes now. The Auto box in our Kuga is so smooth it’s hard to detect the changes in normal driving conditions.

 

[Carpmart]

I’ve broken three VW DSG boxes, actually more specifically, the Mechatronics in three boxes…


To be fully transparent, they were in my track MK5 Golf running 400 ft lb… the conclusion is that remapped DSG boxes are sublime on the road, terrible on track

 

[Geo]

And yes before any one asks it does need two A frames to tow it

 

[mitzimad]

I’ve broken three VW DSG boxes, actually more specifically, the Mechatronics in three boxes…


To be fully transparent, they were in my track MK5 Golf running 400 ft lb… the conclusion is that remapped DSG boxes are sublime on the road, terrible on track

im suprised the mechatronis failed rather than the clutches or flywheels im struggling to see where the torge would affect the control circuits

 

[Spriddler]

A vaguely similar concept to the preselector gearboxes of the1930's.
I have VW 7 speed DSG transmission in my car car and it's sublime.
The only way I know it has changed gear is by looking at the dash indicator or the rev counter.

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[Gromett]

Audio gives up during the explanation of how it actually works defeating the object of watching the video I was really interested as well...

Anyway, Can't wait for Electric cars. They don't have a gear box, no gear changes, no clutch, no flywheel and no mechatronics like this. Lovely.

Oh and they are quiet and smooth

 

[Carpmart]

im suprised the mechatronis failed rather than the clutches or flywheels im struggling to see where the torge would affect the control circuits

Heat. Ended up with a 13 row gearbox rad but never really solved the issue. Clutches slipped a bit more even with the remap of the gearbox, but it was mainly heat!

 

[bexleyjohn]

I have a Tiguan 2.0 diesel) and wife has a Polo (1.0 petrol) - both with the VW DSG boxes. They are great and provides such relaxed driving. So far, no problems!!!!!

 

[Ian Bosman]

My eldest son has a 7 speed twin gearbox Tiguan diesel. He had to have it repaired costing £3000 a couple years back. The people who did it said that the 7 speed should be avoided like the plague as it has been troublesome from the start.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Audio gives up during the explanation of how it actually works defeating the object of watching the video I was really interested as well...

Anyway, Can't wait for Electric cars. They don't have a gear box, no gear changes, no clutch, no flywheel and no mechatronics like this. Lovely.

Oh and they are quiet and smooth

But the recharging issue means you have to have an overnight stop having done 250 miles if you are lucky! Rea the review of the Audi in today’s Sunday Times

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[Ridgeway]

I still like a conventional torque converter (torque multiplier) auto box in an ICE car. With lock-up in the higher gears there is little or no fuel consumption penalty. Mercedes claim theirs beats the manual box for economy. Advantages are smoother take-off from standstill, and easier parking using the inherent "creep", both of which seem to be DSG weak points requiring more driver skill. The DSG beats it on speed of gear changes, which seems like a very small gain in exchange for increased mechanical complexity and the inherent weak points of a dual mass flywheel and multiple mechanical clutches.

Best of all is the one speed gearbox such as the one in our hybrid Honda. Elegant engineering simplicity, and efficiency. Effectively, it has all the advantages of a torque converter (although it doesn't have a torque converter; instead there is electric propulsion that delivers full torque immediately) - it even has simulated "creep" to make it easy to park just using the brake pedal.

Average petrol consumption is about 25% less than the previous like-for-like Honda Jazz with a manual gearbox. Beat that, VW!

Agree re torque converter boxes, have an 8 speed on my Audi and it's much smoother when setting off and also it handles low speed manoeuvres more easily (much less jerky).

 

[Jonno1103]

My eldest son has a 7 speed twin gearbox Tiguan diesel. He had to have it repaired costing £3000 a couple years back. The people who did it said that the 7 speed should be avoided like the plague as it has been troublesome from the start.

The new 7 speeds with the twin wet clutch are a big improvement, my missus has one in her Polo GTi.

I'm on to my 3rd, the 7 speed in the 1.4 180bhp Fabia VRs was well behaved and that car was a hooligan, it was the injector coils that kept blowing. Same box in the 170 bhp Yeti and again zero issues. Both were older '13 & '64 plates. I'm on to the 6 speed single dry clutch DSG in a 67 plate Superb and that behaves well when you unleash 220 bhp although it will drop down to 5th unnecessarily when left to it's own devices.

 

[tonyidle]

Audio gives up during the explanation of how it actually works defeating the object of watching the video I was really interested as well...

Anyway, Can't wait for Electric cars. They don't have a gear box, no gear changes, no clutch, no flywheel and no mechatronics like this. Lovely.

Oh and they are quiet and smooth

The visuals should do it?

 

[Odd-no-more]

I have a 6 speed on my caddy and agree with the comments about a jerky start and creeping, but overall I'm happy with it even when towing my caravan