Thatcham alarm for 24v chassis (1 Viewer)

[John Russell]

I'm buying a Niesmann motorhome on a Man HGV chassis from 2001. The chassis has a 24V supply, there are 12V leisure batteries and a 240V inverter.

The insurers are stipulating a Thatcham Category 1 alarm + immobiliser, and a monitored Cat 5 or 7 tracker. I'd been meaning to look into an alarm anyway so I called the GoTo alarm firm, VanBitz.

They told me that as the chassis runs on 24V it's incompatible with their current alarms. In the past they would have been able to fit one, but no longer. I asked whether a voltage converter could be used but they said that alarm functions of the current models wouldn't work properly.

Has anyone come across this problem, or know of any compatible alarms? I've read eddievanbitz warnings about fitting car alarms to motorhomes; Thatcham do list a couple for HGVs but not I think the Strikeback or Growler?

Any advice about the alarm would be much appreciated - I'd need to make some other changes to switch insurers to one with a less strict alarm policy.

 

[eddie]

As far as I know Scorpion manufacture a 24 volt Thatcham HGV Category 1

You will need to speak to your insurers and nail down exactly what they require. With the chassis on your motorhome being what it is, correct fitment policy dictates that it should be a HGV Cat 1

From memory, HGV Cat 1 is three circuit immobilisation with a CODED handbrake valve.

You will struggle to find someone that will fit you a HGV alarm, correctly to the required spec. We used to have a 24 VDC unit that our alarm plugged straight into, giving us a very stable power supply for not only the alarm system, but all of the peripheral alarm equipment we use, sirens, boosters, hyper frequency sensors, but as the security requirements got tighter I doubt that there is a HGV sold now without a qualifying alarm, so no market for suppliers to manufacturer them

We only work on motorhomes, 99.9% of motorhomes are 12 volt, all of our accessories are 12 volt, so our Strikeback and Growler alarm systems are 12 volt. We have used droppers and converters and are very conversant with all of the ways that we can get around the problem, none of them are satisfactory in our view, and everything ends up being a "work around" which isn't the way that we like to do things so we politely and with regret decline 24 volt chassis motorhomes.

For example, Quiescent power drain is a big issue when using a dropper, converting a 24 volt permanent supply to 12 volt, designed to be used on a 24 volt commercial, which being commercial is intended to be used daily, sometimes 24 hours a day, not the way that the typical motorhome is used.

Tracking Systems are a different option, most tracking systems are dual voltage, our Shadow system is for example.

So I would suggest that you speak to your insurers, and make the point that it is an unusual chassis, is a HGV and get in writing what they want. Fitting a Thatcham approved motorcycle alarm to a car, may get you a certificate, but when the smelly stuff hits the fan and the "T's" need to be crossed and the "I's" dotted to satisfy the underwriters its important that everything is correct.

 

[John Russell]

eddievanbitz Thanks for the very detailed reply, I'll follow that up with the insurers.

If I changed insurers to one without the Thatcham stipulation, could the Strikeback be fitted using the leisure batteries for example?

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[Robert Clark]

Alternatively you could chose an insurer which does not insist on all three of those items.

 

[cmcardle75]

I'm buying a Niesmann motorhome on a Man HGV chassis from 2001. The chassis has a 24V supply, there are 12V leisure batteries and a 240V inverter.

The insurers are stipulating a Thatcham Category 1 alarm + immobiliser, and a monitored Cat 5 or 7 tracker. I'd been meaning to look into an alarm anyway so I called the GoTo alarm firm, VanBitz.

They told me that as the chassis runs on 24V it's incompatible with their current alarms. In the past they would have been able to fit one, but no longer. I asked whether a voltage converter could be used but they said that alarm functions of the current models wouldn't work properly.

Has anyone come across this problem, or know of any compatible alarms? I've read eddievanbitz warnings about fitting car alarms to motorhomes; Thatcham do list a couple for HGVs but not I think the Strikeback or Growler?

Any advice about the alarm would be much appreciated - I'd need to make some other changes to switch insurers to one with a less strict alarm policy.

Do you just need a 2>1 alarm, as the manfucturer's immobiliser is sufficient? If so, could you fit a 12V alarm to the leisure battery? You'd need to duplicate the door sensors, as they'll be 24V powered. You'd also need relays if you want the alarm to connect with the central locking, unless the outputs are already relays rated for the higher voltage.

Or is there a Thatcham rule that it must integrate with the chassis electrical system?

 

[sallylillian]

Re Robert Clark try NFU.

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[eddie]

Alternatively you could chose an insurer which does not insist on all three of those items.

My Favoured choice. To be frank and not trying to be rude, I am unsure why the insurer is asking for so much given the age of the vehicle.

 

[eddie]

Do you just need a 2>1 alarm, as the manfucturer's immobiliser is sufficient? If so, could you fit a 12V alarm to the leisure battery? You'd need to duplicate the door sensors, as they'll be 24V powered. You'd also need relays if you want the alarm to connect with the central locking, unless the outputs are already relays rated for the higher voltage.

Or is there a Thatcham rule that it must integrate with the chassis electrical system?

Thatcham is clear, chassis alarm chassis battery! Also the path's created by say, flashing the indicators and monitoring the ignition circuit, whilst powering from a secondary circuit at all part of the myriad of gremlin type issues that raise their heads, not necessarily on installation, but months or years down the line

Which is why we know the answers, but politely say "no"

 

[PeteH]

Well now every day is a school day?. I never considered that unlike 90%ish of vehicle stuff which is rated 12/24volt. That there would be an issue with alarms?.

Sounds like best move is talk to insurer?. Not all insist on an alarm or immobiliser etc. More especially on older vehicles.

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[John Russell]

Robert Clark sallylillian Yes, I'd prefer to switch insurers, I'm trying NFU.
eddievanbitz I agree the level of anti-theft security is excessive given the age of the van. I doubt anyone is going to try to steal it. Touch wood.

It has an immobiliser but no alarm. Given I'm likely to have some expensive bikes and other kit in the garage, or inside, I'd like to have an alarm for the habitation area and garage. Something practical, this isn't Fort Knox.

What alternatives do I have for an alarm outside Thatcham, who have no approved HGV alarms anyway?

 

[sallylillian]

NFU Louth.

 

[John Russell]

Thanks!

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