Tachograph on a Motor Home when over 3,500Kg and towing on business. (1 Viewer)

[Northern Boy]

I think I know the answer but one never quite knows.
If I use my Motor Home (3,500Kg) as the pulling power for my trailer which is listed at 1,500Kg and use the trailer in a commercial capacity, (ie for delivering goods for pay) does the whole train count as a commercial package and therefor need an operators license and a tachograph?

 

[Mr porky]

Yes. That’s just my opinion. However you could look into the laws regarding been a traveller/showman as they are except.
However when I looked into it 25 years ago it was easier fitting a tachograph and getting an op licence.

 

[Jev88]

Ask. www.vanweightengineering.com.

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[Realist]

I believe that any vehicle fitted with a tachometer used for business purposes should be used as such with a graph.

Tachographs record how long you've been driving for, and are compulsory in all vehicles weighing more than 3.5 tonnes that are being used for commercial benefit. However, you'll also need one if you are towing a trailer and the total gross weight of the vehicle and trailer is more than 3.5 tonnes.

Also
You need a licence to carry goods in a lorry, van or other vehicle with either:

• a gross plated weight (the maximum weight that the vehicle can have at any one time) of over 3,500 kilograms (kg)
• an unladen weight of more than 1,525 kg (where there is no plated weight)

There are 3 different types of licence - what you need depends on the work you do.

You must also make sure that any drivers you use or employ have the correct licence and training. All vehicles that you use should be correctly taxed and kept safe and in good condition at all times.

 

[G7UXG]

If it’s used commercially and the combination is over 3500kg, you need an operator’s licence and need to use a tachograph and to comply with all the driver’s hours restrictions that come with it. You’ll need a digital tachograph if the vehicle was first registered after May 2006, and therefore you’ll need a driver’s card from DVLA… that goes into the tachograph head and records driver’s hours.

That is, unless your particular activity can claim an exemption. You’d need to look at the regulations in depth to find that out.

A few people have fallen foul of the law when using a Range Rover to tow a trailer, used for delivering cars, boats or plant. If the combination is over 3500kgs, unfortunately the regulations apply.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Ditto the answers you would need a tacho but there are a few exemptions depending on the goods and sometimes the range away from base

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[Northern Boy]

I guess I knew the answer was yes to tacho, OP license, transport manager etc etc. But travel these days using the Motor Home as the traction unit when covering long distances is quite appealing. Nice bed, fridge, heating, cooking facilities, toilet. I guess it may well cost me a few grand to set up but at my age I think the fun of traveling around in the MH for my part time delivery business is probably worth it. Its either a van under 3,500Kg, hotels and no tacho; or MH pulling trailer with tacho, OP license, etc. I don't think I fit any of the exemptions as I am often away for five or six days and I am not a professional showman, amateur showman yes but that does not count. I will sleep on the idea and see where the night takes me.

I do this for fun in my retirement as I love the open road so its not driven by profit. Oh and I tend to be mainly in North and Eastern Europe where there is not so much traffic and there are nice places to stay over. The EU rules are still almost identical to the UK.

 

[Ivory55]

The bloke who delivers the showers and toilets to the show does with a discover, but fitted with a taco

 

[jongood]

I think I know the answer but one never quite knows.
If I use my Motor Home (3,500Kg) as the pulling power for my trailer which is listed at 1,500Kg and use the trailer in a commercial capacity, (ie for delivering goods for pay) does the whole train count as a commercial package and therefor need an operators license and a tachograph?

Stick it behind a Range rover, problem solved mate, 3500kgs trailer but no longer a commercial vehicle, well thats the answer here in non wife carrying land

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[Northern Boy]

Stick it behind a Range rover, problem solved mate, 3500kgs trailer but no longer a commercial vehicle

If the trailer is used commercially and the train weight is over 3500Kg then its tacho time, whatever is pulling it. Thats my reading of the rules.

 

[ChrisL]

Don't forget you will also need to do the CPC courses as well, and you may need the operators one and the drivers one.

 

[Grummyb]

The correct answer is you need to have a tacho fitted if using the vehicle for hire or reward however as your vehicle gross weight does not exceed 3500 kg you do of need an operator's licence and I reckon as I run 10 hgvs that do need an o licence and 2 3500kgs 4x4 towing trailers that font need to be on the o licence I know its right

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[Cheshirecat57]

Stick it behind a Range rover, problem solved mate, 3500kgs trailer but no longer a commercial vehicle, well thats the answer here in non wife carrying land

Still needs a tacho, commercial prime-mover or not

 

[Cheshirecat57]

The correct answer is you need to have a tacho fitted if using the vehicle for hire or reward however as your vehicle gross weight does not exceed 3500 kg you do of need an operator's licence and I reckon as I run 10 hgvs that do need an o licence and 2 3500kgs 4x4 towing trailers that font need to be on the o licence I know its right

only need o licence o
if the unladen weight of trailer is >1020kg, which this wont be

 

[Northern Boy]

I conclude I most probably need a tacho but possibly not a Community licence! I have been reading the following and the question is "Is a motor caravan a special-purpose power-driven vehicle that is "not" designated for the carriage of goods"

§ 41. Carriage without Community licence obligation​

10) carriage by a road train that consists of a special-purpose power-driven vehicle that is not designated for the carriage of goods and an O1 or O2 category trailer.

2.5. “Special purpose vehicle“: A vehicle of category M, N or O for conveying passengers or goods and for performing a special function for which special body arrangements and/or equipment are necessary.​

2.5.1.
“Motor caravan“: A special purpose M1 category vehicle constructed to include accommodation space which contains at least the following equipment:
(a) Seats and table;
(b) Sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats;
(c) Cooking facilities; and
(d) Storage facilities.
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

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[Boris7]

if your V5 says motorcaravan then you’ll be fine without

 

[jongood]

Does any of this help? I'm preety sure it depends what you re doing but I knew people who used discovery s with twin wheel trailer behind to deliver office furniture apparently legally.

DVSA 75 rev November 2018 1 TACHOGRAPHS ON HEAVY GOODS VEHICLES This form is to be completed and submitted at time of test if a vehicle does not have a calibrated tachograph fitted according to the requirements of IM26 of the Heavy Goods Vehicle Inspection Manual and the presenter wishes to declare it to be exempt. One of the following reasons should be selected and the declaration on page 2 signed: 1. Vehicle was manufactured prior to 1 January 1947 2. Vehicle is over 25 years old and is not used commercially for carriage of goods 3. Vehicle is not capable by design of exceeding 40km/h under its own power on level road 4. Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or is part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is not used commercially for carriage of goods 5. Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or is part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is used to carry materials equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of his work within a 100 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver’s main activity 6. Vehicle is not over 7500kg GVW or part of a combination of vehicles not over 7500 kg combined GVW which is propelled by natural or liquefied gas or electricity and is used within a 100 km radius of base 7. Vehicle is used in connection with sewerage, flood protection, water, gas or electricity maintenance services, road maintenance or control, door-to-door refuse collection or disposal, telegraph or telephone services, radio or television broadcasting or detection of radio or television receivers 8. Vehicle is used by or on behalf of a relevant NHS body or other authorised body to transport organs, blood, medical supplies or equipment 9. Vehicle is a specialised vehicle used for medical purposes 10.Vehicle is used by a local authority for relevant social services functions 11.Vehicle is used by coastguard or lighthouse authorities 12.Vehicle is used by harbour authorities for improvement, maintenance or management purposes within harbour limits 13.Vehicle is used by an airport authority within airport perimeters or used on roads inside hub facilities such as a port, interport or railway terminal 14.Vehicle is operated by British Railways Board, a Crown railway network licence holder, Transport for London or a local authority or PTE for railway maintenance purposes 15.Vehicle is operated by British Waterways for purposes of maintaining navigable canals 2 16.Vehicle is used by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution for hauling lifeboats 17.Vehicle is used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry or fishery* undertakings to carry goods as part of their own entrepreneurial activity within a 100 km radius of their base (*only for a catch of fish from landing place to processing place or carriage of live fish) 18.Vehicle is used to carry animal waste or carcasses not intended for human consumption 19.Vehicle is used to carry live animals between farms and local markets, or from a market to a local slaughterhouse within a maximum radius of 100 km 20.Vehicle is used for milk collection from farms or return to farms of milk containers or milk products intended for animal feed 21.Vehicle is used to carry sea coal 22.Vehicle is a specially fitted mobile project vehicle with a primary purpose of providing educational facilities when stationary (including mobile lending libraries) 23.Vehicle is used by or under the control of the armed services, civil defence, fire services or forces responsible for maintaining public order 24.Vehicle is used in emergencies or rescue operations (including humanitarian aid) 25.Vehicle is a specialised breakdown vehicle only used within a 100 km radius of base 26.Vehicle is a specialised vehicle transporting circus and funfair equipment 27.Vehicle is used for driving instruction and examination with a view to obtaining a driving licence or certificate of professional competence and is not used for the commercial carriage of goods or passengers 28.Vehicle is used on an island not exceeding 2300 square kilometres in area not linked to the rest of Great Britain by a bridge, tunnel or ford open to motor vehicles 29.Vehicle only has fixed equipment (eg mobile crane/plant) and does not tow a goods trailer 30.Vehicle is no longer used for the carriage of goods and is taxed as a Private HGV DECLARATION: I declare that vehicle registration mark……………….. is exempt from the tachograph fitment and calibration requirement for reason ……….. (1-30 as applicable) above. __________ ______________ ______________________ _____________ Signature Name Position in business Date WARNING: It is an offence to make a declaration knowing it to be untrue. Please note that the information contained in this declaration may be passed onto DVSA Enforcement staff for information and possible further investigation. For further guidance, search “Tachograph rules for goods vehicles” on www.gov.uk Data Protection We collect, use and store your personal data in order to confirm this declaration and to advise our Enforcement officers. We may share your personal data if we have a lawful reason. For example as part of a criminal investigation, to prevent fraud or to inform a Public Inquiry. Find out more at www.gov.uk/dvsa/privacy​

 

[martin2603]

It does not require an O Licence. It is not a goods carrying vehicle. It could be a grey area as to wether it requires a Tacho which would only need to be used when towing the trailer for reward. When used for reward you might need a driver cpc also. If you are only carrying your own goods for delivery the situation will be slightly different.
For a definitive answer contact the DVSA Technical Team at Swansea.

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[Ivory55]

If using something fitted with a tachometer for days here and there, do they then have to record all their hours on other days as if on a taco , even if just written in a diary ?

 

[georgio]

Just remember that if a tacho is fitted all your driving is recorded and you can be prosecuted up to two years hence and that includes speeding

 

[Grummyb]

The tacho only needs to used when the trailer is attached when its just to the towing vehicle without the trailer you should record the mileage and put the tacho in out of scope mode you do not need a driver a driver CPC

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[Northern Boy]

Well, well, well, there you have it and thank you all for your input.

Having slept on this and regurgitated it a few times I am minded to put this trailer idea on the back burner. I live in a country where I don't speak the language well, certainly not technically. The idea of fitting a tacho, an Operators licence and maybe some exams in a foreign language are probably for now best avoided. All the costs can be saved and used to just have fun as all funsters should be doing.

I have as ever learnt much, had some fun and am a better person today

Time to do some gardening now

 

[Lenny HB]

Also if you carry goods in a Motorhome you need an annual goods vehicle test from year one instead of an MOT.

 

[Nanniemate]

I think you have drawn the right conclusion YOU ARE RETIRED ENJOY IT

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