Strange battery problem (1 Viewer)

[clanjones]

Ouch terrible spelling! Should read no wiring in to the hab area apart from
the shunt wiring next to the battery.

Think I'll go back to my decorating!

 

[cmcardle75]

Thanks for that response.

Actually Lofoten gets 24 hours of Sun from about end of May until mid-August so that will help.

I am certainly going to take my time before purchasing anything, and as I mentioned above will explore how I get a second battery in.

It does have solar already, not sure what it is rated at but will look at that.

I have read varying reports about the clipper monitor mentioned above re how accurate the battery state report is but it does sound useful to work out how much power I am drawing in varous scenario (and how much is going back in via solar/driving), again I think more research required.

If you can afford it, a 100Ah LiFePO4 will have double the effective capacity of your current battery and take up a fraction of the space and weight (you can probably get 200Ah of lithium in the same space as a 100Ah lead acid if the dimensions are kind, for 4 times the effective storage capacity (and a very empty wallet). You'd need to check that your existing chargers are compatible. Even if you don't take the Lithium plunge now, if you buy any additional chargers (i.e. B2B or MPPT), make sure that any new ones are Lithium compatible for any future purchase.

 

[chaser]

A quest that has always defeated me, what happens if the battery is never run down below 12.4 how many cycles do you have then?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cmcardle75]

A quest that has always defeated me, what happens if the battery is never run down below 12.4 how many cycles do you have then?

A bit of googling should find you some graphs of the expected lifetimes of lead acid batteries when subjected to various levels of discharge. However, basically, the less you discharge a lead acid, the longer it lives. Telephone exchanges with battery backup can go many decades by not going under 99%!

 

[PhilandMena]

A quest that has always defeated me, what happens if the battery is never run down below 12.4 how many cycles do you have then?

The less you discharge the more cycles you get. (If you get less cycles for discharging more it follows you get more if you discharge less). However, I'm not sure if it works on a log scale but my belief is if you get 200 cycles at 50% D.O.D and you only discharge to half of that, then you double the total amount of cycles you get. Someone will be along soon no doubt to add their views on the subject.

 

[PhilandMena]

I was a bit paranoid on battery usage and bought the BM1 battery monitor which uses an app via Bluetooth. Advantage of it is no wiring inbtovthe hab area if the can apart from the shunt which is next to the battery.

<Broken link removed>[/URL]

I think it is a great bit if kit and allows you monitor what appliances are using what current.

I too have this fitted. Mine does not show what each appliance is using unless only that appliance is in use. Mine shows the total draw of all appliances receiving power from the habitation battery bank and the voltage state of the cab battery if connected to the monitor. A useful piece of kit.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cmcardle75]

The less you discharge the more cycles you get. (If you get less cycles for discharging more it follows you get more if you discharge less). However, I'm not sure if it works on a log scale but my belief is if you get 200 cycles at 50% D.O.D and you only discharge to half of that, then you double the total amount of cycles you get. Someone will be along soon no doubt to add their views on the subject.

You should get a lot more than double the cycles if you halve the discharge percentage. Basically, you'll be able to put more total current through it over its lifetime if you limit the discharge more.

Of course, you have to look after it in other ways, too. You particularly need to avoid overcharging, such as by having extended absorbtion times, excessive float voltage etc. Flooded cells need to be checked for water level. Sealed cells need to have low maximum currents as gassing off is even more destructive than for flooded.

 

[engelside]

Trying to work out what the lights on the Solar controller and regulator mean. The photo was taken this morning aaround 11ish and although overast wouldn't I expect the panel to be providing somethin

I found the controller manual on t'internet and its seems that mine is indicating that the panel is not supplying any power (charge light is off and that the battery has low capacity.

Another nail in the coffin for the battery I think.

I can't find a regulator manual so am uncertain wht the green and orange lights mean.

 

[SandraL]

Is the solar controller wired correctly?
The neg wire that should go to the battery seems to be wired to the solar panel negative. Surely the battery neg should go to the battery, with no negative wire from solar neg to batt neg terminals on the solar controller.
This looking at photo, the item without the large label.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

I too have this fitted. Mine does not show what each appliance is using unless only that appliance is in use. Mine shows the total draw of all appliances receiving power from the habitation battery bank and the voltage state of the cab battery if connected to the monitor. A useful piece of kit.

I did read some review of the CM1 (directly connected - not blue tooth) and his opinion re the battery state was that it was not really accurate as they drift off over a period of time.

 

[engelside]

Is the solar controller wired correctly?
The neg wire that should go to the battery seems to be wired to the solar panel negative. Surely the battery neg should go to the battery, with no negative wire from solar neg to batt neg terminals on the solar controller.
This looking at photo, the item without the large label.

Good question. I couldn't understand why the panel and battery negatives were jumped together. I could do with working out what wires go where from the regulator.

 

[DBK]

Is the solar controller wired correctly?
The neg wire that should go to the battery seems to be wired to the solar panel negative. Surely the battery neg should go to the battery, with no negative wire from solar neg to batt neg terminals on the solar controller.
This looking at photo, the item without the large label.

Good question. I couldn't understand why the panel and battery negatives were jumped together. I could do with working out what wires go where from the regulator.

That looks as if it is wired the way mine is - it is probably using a common negative wire for both the panels and the battery. Nothing wrong with the setup if that is the way they have done it. I'm assuming the black wire probably goes to a negative busbar where all the other negatives are also connected, including the negative wire from the solar panel.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PhilandMena]

Tis might help. My interpretation of the lights is a charge is being received from the solar panel and indicating 75% charge.

https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/181819810-CML-USB-final-manual-V5.pdf

 

[PhilandMena]

I did read some review of the CM1 (directly connected - not blue tooth) and his opinion re the battery state was that it was not really accurate as they drift off over a period of time.

You have lost me on this reply! The CM1 is hard wired to shunt and batteries and provides a display to an App from a bluetooth monitor. There can be a very small variation in the read out but this is normal and explained in the manual. Other users on here have confirmed they get a similar performance.

 

[PhilandMena]

Trying to work out what the lights on the Solar controller and regulator mean. The photo was taken this morning aaround 11ish and although overast wouldn't I expect the panel to be providing somethin

I found the controller manual on t'internet and its seems that mine is indicating that the panel is not supplying any power (charge light is off and that the battery has low capacity.

View attachment 436632


Another nail in the coffin for the battery I think.

I can't find a regulator manual so am uncertain wht the green and orange lights mean.

Can you explain what you mean by Solar Controller and Solar Regulator ? Are they not one and the same ? do you have more than one fitted ?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

You have lost me on this reply! The CM1 is hard wired to shunt and batteries and provides a display to an App from a bluetooth monitor. There can be a very small variation in the read out but this is normal and explained in the manual. Other users on here have confirmed they get a similar performance.

I will try and find the link that I was looking at.

 

[engelside]

Can you explain what you mean by Solar Controller and Solar Regulator ? Are they not one and the same ? do you have more than one fitted ?

Sorry - the box on the left is the controller (according to the manual I googled it is a "Solar Charge Controller") the one on the right is also controller, I got my Italian and English mixed up a bit.

i.e. 'regolatore di carica per pann fotovoltaica' is translated to 'charge controller for photovoltaic panels'

The RHS box seems to have a heat sink attached but I have no idea of how it works with the Phocos (which is what I presume it is doing)

 

[PhilandMena]

Tis might help. My interpretation of the lights is a charge is being received from the solar panel and indicating 75% charge.

https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/181819810-CML-USB-final-manual-V5.pdf

OK after looking at it again, I agree the controller is indicating no charge is being received from the solar panel. This may be a fuse, or simply not enough light. If the picture was taken during the day and the panel exposed to daylight, I would expect this light to be on. Question, have you ever seen it on in the past ! (The reason I ask is that the connections to a S.P. controller should be battery first (so controller know what voltage system is) then panel afterwards. Other than that, it is either a fuse or a broken/loose connection. Battery is showing >75% charge state so assume on board charger is working OK.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

Tis might help. My interpretation of the lights is a charge is being received from the solar panel and indicating 75% charge.

https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/181819810-CML-USB-final-manual-V5.pdf

Yes, I downloaded an english only version of this.

I think the top LED should be lit if a charge is being received from the panel though.

Edit: just saw your reply.

 

[PhilandMena]

Sorry - the box on the left is the controller (according to the manual I googled it is a "Solar Charge Controller") the one on the right is also controller, I got my Italian and English mixed up a bit.

i.e. 'regolatore di carica per pann fotovoltaica' is translated to 'charge controller for photovoltaic panels'

The RHS box seems to have a heat sink attached but I have no idea of how it works with the Phocos (which is what I presume it is doing)

OK thanks for that! I'm at a loss too as to what it does? On my set up I only have a MPPT regulator (or controll, depending on what you want to call it) between the Solar Panel and battery connection.

 

[PhilandMena]

Yes, I downloaded an english only version of this.

I think the top LED should be lit if a charge is being received from the panel though.

I agree ! Maybe time to get out the Volt meter and do a check- in daylight !

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

OK after looking at it again, I agree the controller is indicating no charge is being received from the solar panel. This may be a fuse, or simply not enough light. If the picture was taken during the day and the panel exposed to daylight, I would expect this light to be on. Question, have you ever seen it on in the past ! (The reason I ask is that the connections to a S.P. controller should be battery first (so controller know what voltage system is) then panel afterwards. Other than that, it is either a fuse or a broken/loose connection. Battery is showing >75% charge state so assume on board charger is working OK.

I had a look back at photos I took when I first bought the van last September and the same lights were on! I wonder if it is indicating that it has diconnected the charge as battery is fully charged?

 

[Lenny HB]

It's a Truma Combiu, don't think it will run with the fan off. However if you can get the temperature setting right the fan seems to go into a "low blow" state - which I am assuming will use less power.

5-6 amps at full chat if you have the CP Plus controller less than one amp once up to temp.

 

[DBK]

Tis might help. My interpretation of the lights is a charge is being received from the solar panel and indicating 75% charge.

https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/181819810-CML-USB-final-manual-V5.pdf

Have you looked at page 28 of that manual? It says the positive terminals of the solar and battery connections are connected together internally and both positive feeds should be earthed to the chassis! This suggests the controller is designed for a positive earth vehicle. If the OP's vehicle is the much more common negative earth then it isn't surprising this setup isn't working very well.

It should still work, as a shunt type solar controller brings the solar voltage down to the battery voltage but it isn't very efficient.

The above doesn't explain the complete lack of charge but a better controller will do no harm.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

5-6 amps at full chat if you have the CP Plus controller less than one amp once up to temp.

CP Plus controller?

 

[Lenny HB]

CP Plus controller?

The digital one, it controls the fan speed accurately than the older Classic controler.

 

[engelside]

Have you looked at page 28 of that manual? It says the positive terminals of the solar and battery connections are connected together internally and both positive feeds should be earthed to the chassis! This suggests the controller is designed for a positive earth vehicle. If the OP's vehicle is the much more common negative earth then it isn't surprising this setup isn't working very well.

It should still work, as a shunt type solar controller brings the solar voltage down to the battery voltage but it isn't very efficient.

The above doesn't explain the complete lack of charge but a better controller will do no harm.

It is factory fit as far as I am aware though. It was standard on Mirage 5000. This isn't to say that previous owner hasn't messed with it though! Although this is probably unlikely as it is a 2004 model that we bought with less than 5000 on the clock last year so hardly ever used - just MOT'd

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[engelside]

The digital one, it controls the fan speed accurately than the older Classic controler.

Ah, unlikely on a 2004 model I think.

 

[engelside]

On the version of the manual I found

 

[cmcardle75]

On the version of the manual I found

View attachment 436656

What an utterly bizarre design decision. Postive earth vehicles haven't been common since the 1960s.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}