Squeezing a Fogstar 280Ah lithium battery under the seat

[Guigsy]

My Fogstar Drift 280Ah LiFePO4 battery arrived a few weekends ago, but this weekend was the first time I had a chance to try to fit it. My existing setup was a 95Ah AGM battery under the driver's seat and Victron SmartSolar MPPT charger. Despite the van being registered in 2020, it doesn't have settings for lithium batteries. First job was to remove the seat. 4 bolts and a lift that tweaked my back revealed the battery.

I ordered the Fogstar with the assumption that it would fit under the driver's seat. Although the footprint of the Fogstar was the same, it was very obvious that it wasn't going to drop straight in.

After a lot of cursing and wiggling, I somehow managed to finagle the battery in a workable position towards the front of the seat base. It's not forced in, but it's a friction fit against the lifting handles. I added a ply plate to the existing metal retention bracket for it to brace against. Then I added a block of thick ply at the rear to wedge it to prevent it moving... not that it'll go anywhere.

On the positive terminal side, I've added a midi-fuse breakout to the front of the seatbase where I could potentially change fuses without removing the seat. The battery has a 100A fuse, but then the feed to the hab electrics is 50A, the mains charger is 30A and I've got a gap for a future DC/B2B charger.

On the negative side, I installed a Victron shunt with the optional temperature probe, then a negative busbar.

Hanging off another ply board cable tied to the back of the seat base is the new Victron IP22 20A AC charger. At the moment it's just plugged into a nearby 3 pin mains socket near the cab, but I'll wire it in properly at some point. I also disabled the internal charger in my Schaudt Elektroblok by removing the fuse.

And when I switched it all back on again, it worked! The mains charger adds a enough juice to recharge the majority of the battery overnight. The solar just needed a change of settings in the app and appears to be working fine.

... As mentioned, I've not installed a DC/B2B charger yet. I'm yet to test to see how the existing setup behaves. My expectation is that it'll work, but provide only a low charge. I have got a Votronic 30A unit waiting to be installed, but I need another free weekend. I'll update when that's in.

The other thing I've got to alter are the settings in the Victrons. I'm using their default Li-ion setting which are 14.2V. I think the Fogstar is supposed to charge higher?

 

[donkey]

That looks good. Just one thing I would do, is protect the positive battery connection. It looks very vulnerable.

Geoff

 

[Swifter]

Very nice work. I hope you enjoy the extra power available

 

[Tombola]

280 in the space of a 95ah...whats not to like ..

 

[canopus]

Nice job. Slightly lower Ah in the attached but looks more fit for purpose.

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 230Ah

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery 230ah | Grade A EVE LiFePO4 cells, JBD BMS, Bluetooth & Heating. Just £799.99 with a 10 year warranty.

www.fogstar.co.uk

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[Guigsy]

Nice job. Slightly lower Ah in the attached but looks more fit for purpose.

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery - Fogstar Drift 12v 230Ah

Seat Base Lithium Leisure Battery 230ah | Grade A EVE LiFePO4 cells, JBD BMS, Bluetooth & Heating. Just £799.99 with a 10 year warranty.

www.fogstar.co.uk

Yep. Should have got that one.

 

[MisterB]

Yep. Should have got that one.

I think you chose correctly, yes it took a bit more work and head scratching but you have more capacity.

I am in the testing stage of no B2B, I specifically wanted to test without any solar input either (although I have some and have more to be added when I get back) and use the 240v kettle, microwave and induction hob whenever we want aswell as TV in the evening, lights etc. I disconnected the solar as I wanted to see what it might be like, worse case scenario, if solar wasn't available for some reason.

I am finding that short journeys of an hour or so, don't really put a great amount of power back into the battery, whereas a drive of about 3 or 4 hours does. My thoughts are that if only making short journeys then a higher rated B2B ie 50A would make a better investment than a 30A B2B, but for longer journeys a 30A B2B might be sufficient. There are quite a few people on the forum who have trod this path long before I even started, who can offer better advice/real life experience than I can, so please don't think I am any kind of expert, I am just offering my limited experience to date.

Having said that, we are now at 78% of a 304Ah Fogstar having travelled around 170 miles since Sunday midday, so still a long way before we get down to any levels of power that will concern me.

The advantage of having the additional capacity you have added might make all the difference in the future to staying off grid longer.

Having the inverter and ability and convenience to use 240v appliances is making a massive difference to our style of motorhoming, if you're not going to be using 240v then you may find a B2B isnt necessary. I think your process of not adding things until you have tried is a valid way of understanding your actual needs as opposed to your wants !! I often fall into the other category of wanting something without actually needing it!

 

[Outdoors Dad]

A very nice neat job matey and hopefully you will never have to change the battery for a long long time. I ordered the fogstar 230a lithium beginning of January for a late March delivery.........it never arrived so sent off a very polite email. Fogstar emailed to apologised for not contacting me and offered me a refund! I have waited this long I would like my battery. It will hopefully be arriving end of this month. I have bought a few things from Renogy recently, products arrived in few days with a good amount of correspondence.

 

[Spriddler]

A 280Ah lithium battery under my seat

That looks good. Just one thing I would do, is protect the positive battery connection. It looks very vulnerable.

280 in the space of a 95ah...what's not to like ..

 

[Guigsy]

Mini update:
Just ran the engine for a few minutes to see how it performed without a B2B charger. It looks like it's kicking out 15-20amps. I'll try again with the fridge on at some point. The battery is only 70% full at the moment at about 13.5v, so I also need to know what happens when it's fully charged and at maximum voltage. Provided it doesn't over charge, I can live with that for a few weeks.

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[Guigsy]

A 280Ah lithium battery under my seat





View attachment 740360

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are pretty safe. It's got a BMS that should shut down with over current or over temperature.

You could argue that previously I was sitting on a plastic bucket of concentrated acid that liked to off-gas hydrogen.

 

[Guigsy]

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are pretty safe. It's got a BMS that should shut down with over current or over temperature.

You could argue that previously I was sitting on a plastic bucket of concentrated acid that liked to off-gas hydrogen.

Just realised Spriddler, you seem to be pretty comfortable with 3 gallons of petrol between your legs and rapidly reciprocating hot metal and explosions going off a few inches from your nethers....

 

[sjsabq]

What settings did you use for the Victron smart shunt, I'm a bit unclear on setting this up properly, despite having watched several videos....

 

[Spriddler]

Just realised Spriddler, you seem to be pretty comfortable with 3 gallons of petrol between your legs and rapidly reciprocating hot metal and explosions going off a few inches from your nethers....

Touché!


(I'll get me coat).

 

[Guigsy]

What settings did you use for the Victron smart shunt, I'm a bit unclear on setting this up properly, despite having watched several videos....

I've currently got my Victron solar, mains charger and shunt just set to the default Lithium profiles. I think this could probably be tweaked? The Fogstar Drift has low temperature heating mats, so I don't need the Victron's low temperature cut out (although it will knock off the accuracy of the shunt charge level estimate). I think the Fogstar can be charged to 14.4v too, but the Victron defaults to 14.2v.

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[Lenny HB]

The other thing I've got to alter are the settings in the Victrons. I'm using their default Li-ion setting which are 14.2V. I think the Fogstar is supposed to charge higher

14.2 is more than enough it will take slightly longer to get to a full charge but better for the batteries.

 

[sjsabq]

I've currently got my Victron solar, mains charger and shunt just set to the default Lithium profiles. I think this could probably be tweaked? The Fogstar Drift has low temperature heating mats, so I don't need the Victron's low temperature cut out (although it will knock off the accuracy of the shunt charge level estimate). I think the Fogstar can be charged to 14.4v too, but the Victron defaults to 14.2v.

I have the Victron solar charger and non Victron mains and dc to dc chargers set to lithium, its the settings in he smart shunt that I'm a bit confused about.



The shunt is out of sync with the BMS with regard to battery percentage, and I'm guessing it's in here?

 

[Guigsy]

I have the Victron solar charger and non Victron mains and dc to dc chargers set to lithium, its the settings in he smart shunt that I'm a bit confused about.

View attachment 740736

The shunt is out of sync with the BMS with regard to battery percentage, and I'm guessing it's in here?

I've set the capacity and the charged voltage to 14.2v to match everything else. I then manually set the state of charge level up match the FogStar app.

 

[Tomass]

Great! Lifepo4 is better

 

[Ditcha]

I have the Victron solar charger and non Victron mains and dc to dc chargers set to lithium, its the settings in he smart shunt that I'm a bit confused about.

View attachment 740736

The shunt is out of sync with the BMS with regard to battery percentage, and I'm guessing it's in here?

These are my settings for my smart shunt that work well for my lithium set up my absorption voltage is set to 14.05v on all chargers.
I still have conflicting states of charge between the BMS and shunt but always use the shunt for the info.

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[tkk]

My Fogstar Drift 280Ah LiFePO4 battery arrived a few weekends ago, but this weekend was the first time I had a chance to try to fit it. My existing setup was a 95Ah AGM battery under the driver's seat and Victron SmartSolar MPPT charger. Despite the van being registered in 2020, it doesn't have settings for lithium batteries. First job was to remove the seat. 4 bolts and a lift that tweaked my back revealed the battery.
View attachment 740303View attachment 740299

I ordered the Fogstar with the assumption that it would fit under the driver's seat. Although the footprint of the Fogstar was the same, it was very obvious that it wasn't going to drop straight in.
View attachment 740300View attachment 740301

After a lot of cursing and wiggling, I somehow managed to finagle the battery in a workable position towards the front of the seat base. It's not forced in, but it's a friction fit against the lifting handles. I added a ply plate to the existing metal retention bracket for it to brace against. Then I added a block of thick ply at the rear to wedge it to prevent it moving... not that it'll go anywhere.

On the positive terminal side, I've added a midi-fuse breakout to the front of the seatbase where I could potentially change fuses without removing the seat. The battery has a 100A fuse, but then the feed to the hab electrics is 50A, the mains charger is 30A and I've got a gap for a future DC/B2B charger.
View attachment 740304

On the negative side, I installed a Victron shunt with the optional temperature probe, then a negative busbar.
View attachment 740307

Hanging off another ply board cable tied to the back of the seat base is the new Victron IP22 20A AC charger. At the moment it's just plugged into a nearby 3 pin mains socket near the cab, but I'll wire it in properly at some point. I also disabled the internal charger in my Schaudt Elektroblok by removing the fuse.
View attachment 740308View attachment 740310

And when I switched it all back on again, it worked! The mains charger adds a enough juice to recharge the majority of the battery overnight. The solar just needed a change of settings in the app and appears to be working fine.

... As mentioned, I've not installed a DC/B2B charger yet. I'm yet to test to see how the existing setup behaves. My expectation is that it'll work, but provide only a low charge. I have got a Votronic 30A unit waiting to be installed, but I need another free weekend. I'll update when that's in.

The other thing I've got to alter are the settings in the Victrons. I'm using their default Li-ion setting which are 14.2V. I think the Fogstar is supposed to charge higher? View attachment 740305 View attachment 740309

HI,
looks good. Are there any issues with Fogstars on their side and can it be either side?
tk

 

[Guigsy]

HI,
looks good. Are there any issues with Fogstars on their side and can it be either side?
tk

Apparently anything other than upside down is good.

 

[Stanage]

Hi

Interesting to read this - just about to do something similar with the same battery under the seat. A couple of queries to help my decision-making, if you don't mind, please:

Why did you not use the internal charger in the Schaudt Elektroblok? Wouldn't that have allowed charging of the battery whilst driving, and also whilst on AC?
Why did you install the Victron Shunt, as opposed to using Fogstar's Bluetooth app?

Thanks

 

[Guigsy]

Hi

Interesting to read this - just about to do something similar with the same battery under the seat. A couple of queries to help my decision-making, if you don't mind, please:

Why did you not use the internal charger in the Schaudt Elektroblok? Wouldn't that have allowed charging of the battery whilst driving, and also whilst on AC?
Why did you install the Victron Shunt, as opposed to using Fogstar's Bluetooth app?

Thanks

I've only disabled the AC charger at the moment. AC chargers expect to stay on for extended periods, and they have a charging profile to feed in power in a fast and safe way. But Lithium batteries have different charge profiles to lead acid batteries. If I just used the built in Elektroblok AC charger, I'd get a slow and the voltage-current profile it uses isn't optimal for lithium batteries and could potentially damage it in the longer term.

The DC charge from the alternator is just a flat feed. It's not on for potentially days at a time like the AC charger would be. So it's less likely to damage the battery. I do have a Votronic DC charger too, but I've not fitted it. The power from my non-smart alternator seems OK (although I've still not checked what output I get when I've got the fridge on while driving).

I'm using the Victron shunt... mainly because I already had it. It's also useful to my other Victron gear as they can see the exact voltage at the battery before any voltage drops across the cabling via the bluetooth data link. For other brands of batteries without the heater element, it would also be useful to stop charging when the temperature drops as I've got the temperature probe on the shunt... but the Fogstar will automatically divert current to the heating elements when it gets to freezing, so that's not an issue either. At some point I'd like to tap into the data for a microcontroller/Raspberry Pi project, but that's for another day. If I didn't already have the shunt, I probably wouldn't have bothered with one.

 

[canopus]

I’ve read that the EBL Elektroblok (EB31in my vehicle) is only configured for AGM and GEL batteries. Apuljack offer the following :-

Apuljack Electronics Ltd. offers a number of lithium upgrade solutions. If you have a Schaudt Elektroblock unit (likely in a Hymer or Burstner vehicle) or a Nord Elettronica NE237 (modern Adria vehicles) then we are able to modify the internal charger module to a suitable lithium charger. This is a one-way process, as once the work has been done the unit is no longer suitable to charge non-lithium batteries – but it is reversible if you return the unit to us should you wish to switch back to non-lithium.

The cost for this mod is £104 I believe, not sure if this includes carriage.

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[MisterB]

I understood (from a previous thread) that the NE237 is suitable for lithium if you set it to Lead Acid. I'm sure the thread said that it will charge the Li up to about 96%, which also means it's not being stored fully charged, which was helpful with longevity of the battery? Of course I may be wrong ..,..

 

[Stanage]

Fogstar

I've only disabled the AC charger at the moment. AC chargers expect to stay on for extended periods, and they have a charging profile to feed in power in a fast and safe way. But Lithium batteries have different charge profiles to lead acid batteries. If I just used the built in Elektroblok AC charger, I'd get a slow and the voltage-current profile it uses isn't optimal for lithium batteries and could potentially damage it in the longer term.

The DC charge from the alternator is just a flat feed. It's not on for potentially days at a time like the AC charger would be. So it's less likely to damage the battery. I do have a Votronic DC charger too, but I've not fitted it. The power from my non-smart alternator seems OK (although I've still not checked what output I get when I've got the fridge on while driving).

I'm using the Victron shunt... mainly because I already had it. It's also useful to my other Victron gear as they can see the exact voltage at the battery before any voltage drops across the cabling via the bluetooth data link. For other brands of batteries without the heater element, it would also be useful to stop charging when the temperature drops as I've got the temperature probe on the shunt... but the Fogstar will automatically divert current to the heating elements when it gets to freezing, so that's not an issue either. At some point I'd like to tap into the data for a microcontroller/Raspberry Pi project, but that's for another day. If I didn't already have the shunt, I probably wouldn't have bothered with one.

Thanks for the info. I was planning on using the Electroblok to handle AC-DC and Battery-Battery charging of the Fogstar drift battery, and Fogstar previously told me that I should be able to charge on an AGM profile. I double-checked with them about long-term damage, and they said that the BMS in the Drift battery will cut off charging so as not to damage the cells, and that having it on like this shouldn't be a concern. So I think I'm going to see how it goes with AC-DC and Battery-Battery through the EBL in the first instance.

I'm hoping that most of the charging will come from 400W of solar. For solar charging, I'm planning to bypass the EBL, as I think it will be above the current that the EBL is designed to handle, and charge directly from an MPPT controller. Also, it turns out that the solar input on the EBL doesn't feed the vehicle battery, which would have been the main benefit.

I'll then be adding a 1600W inverter. Oh - and all of this is fitting under the driver and passenger seats!

There's a lot to learn about what's sensible and what's possible, and then trying to balance what you're trying to achieve with the equipment that available (and small enough!) from the various reputable manufacturers. I think I'm getting there though.

 

[Bessy765]

I have a Sept 2019 Burstner with the 2.3 150 comformatic no smart alternator. 700 watts of solar Victron 12/2000/80 30 inverter charger, 2 x 100 amp Lithium Transporter batteries. Can pull upwards of 80 amps, no B2B fitted. This system has worked fine now covered over 20,000 miles. Been in France since Feb 23rd no EHU required. The company who fitted it warranted the whole system for five years and the batteries for ten.

 

[Al n Val]

I have a Sept 2019 Burstner with the 2.3 150 comformatic no smart alternator. 700 watts of solar Victron 12/2000/80 30 inverter charger, 2 x 100 amp Lithium Transporter batteries. Can pull upwards of 80 amps, no B2B fitted. This system has worked fine now covered over 20,000 miles. Been in France since Feb 23rd no EHU required. The company who fitted it warranted the whole system for five years and the batteries for ten.

Bessy765

may I ask who the company was

 

[Bessy765]

Tom Donavon RV instalations Mullacott North Devon tom@rvinstaltions.co.uk 01271542424. I have no financial connection just very impressed with the knowledge and high standard of work.

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