speeding conviction ,any advice or thoughts please (1 Viewer)

andy63

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In august 2015 I got a fixed penalty notice from the Scottish police for what I thought was doing 60 in a 50 mph zone.
I admitted I was the driver ,paid fine and got 3 points.
Today an insurance query took me to a government site to check the date and fixed penalty code..

It turns out that the code is for an SP10... light goods vehicle exceeding the speed limit...
As the vehicle is a Ford transit and registered as a motor caravan I'm assuming that I was still within the law to be doing 60 on a single carriageway
My fault I know for not studying the notice when I got it,but if the above assumptions are right and the notice was issued because I was thought to be a goods vehicle ,then the police didn't check the vehicle details before sending the notice...
Has anyone ever been able to overturn their penalty points after accepting them??
Ta andy..
 

PP Bear

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Think a letters in order, it can't hurt can it.

Then there's legal advice, but either was I'd get it amended or squashed.

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DanielFord

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Assuming you are under 3.05tonnes (from memory) then yes the conviction was unsound and can be appealed. You may appeal at any time after conviction (within reason) I believe. Speak to a motoring law solicitor, many will do a first consultation for free.
 

Minxy

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In august 2015 I got a fixed penalty notice from the Scottish police for what I thought was doing 60 in a 50 mph zone.
I admitted I was the driver ,paid fine and got 3 points.
Today an insurance query took me to a government site to check the date and fixed penalty code..

It turns out that the code is for an SP10... light goods vehicle exceeding the speed limit...
As the vehicle is a Ford transit and registered as a motor caravan I'm assuming that I was still within the law to be doing 60 on a single carriageway
My fault I know for not studying the notice when I got it,but if the above assumptions are right and the notice was issued because I was thought to be a goods vehicle ,then the police didn't check the vehicle details before sending the notice...
Has anyone ever been able to overturn their penalty points after accepting them??
Ta andy..
I may be wrong but the fine might be based on the unladen weight more than the fact that it was classed as a good vehicle, it may be a 'catch-all' code? Its the unladen weight that, I believe, determines what speed you can do.
 

parknride

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Does your insurance offer free legal advice? It's worth pursuing, nothing to lose (y)

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As the vehicle is a Ford transit and registered as a motor caravan I'm assuming that I was still within the law to be doing 60 on a single carriageway

Not necessarily.

It's a silly quirk in the law - the speed limits for motor caravans are dependent on their unladen weight. Less than 3.05t unladen you can do 60, over 3.05t you're restricted to 50. Motor caravans are the only vehicle class restricted based on this weight.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

That's unladen, not MIRO. No converter as far as I'm aware records this weight so you will have a bugger of a job trying to prove you were under, even if you happened to be. Your only chance might be is if the stated MIRO is less than that.

From your avatar it looks like you have a PVC so it might be.

No idea if you can change your mind after accepting the fixed penalty though.
 

DuxDeluxe

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Not necessarily.

It's a silly quirk in the law - the speed limits for motor caravans are dependent on their unladen weight. Less than 3.05t unladen you can do 60, over 3.05t you're restricted to 50. Motor caravans are the only vehicle class restricted based on this weight.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

That's unladen, not MIRO. No converter as far as I'm aware records this weight so you will have a bugger of a job trying to prove you were under, even if you happened to be. Your only chance might be is if the stated MIRO is less than that.

From your avatar it looks like you have a PVC so it might be.

No idea if you can change your mind after accepting the fixed penalty though.
I think that once the fixed penalty has been accepted, that is the end of it. Sorry, you are out of options...


The payment of a Fixed Penalty prevents any further action being taken with respect to the offence.

Equally, once a Fixed Penalty Notice is accepted, a motorist may not request a court hearing.

If you are issued with a fixed penalty notice for an offence (e.g. using a mobile phone, speeding or driving with no insurance) and you do not accept that you have committed the offence or believe that there are circumstances in connection with the offence that should be considered, you should seek legal advice before accepting the notice.
 

pappajohn

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Have a look on the VIN plate or your V5 document....you may be lucky and it shows the unladen weight of the base vehicle.
Under 3.05t you have a case.
The converters plate, if it has one, wont show unladen weight.

Many insurers disregard one speeding offence anyway....unless its a stupid speed.

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andy63

andy63

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Don't want this to develop into the unladen weight of the vehicle and speed limit thread... I'm happy I could argue that point..
and have weigh bridge tickets to show the van came in at under 3050kg after conversion and im sure it had more on board at that time than would have been necessary to establish an unladen weight..
It's more a do you think it's possible to loose 3 points after accepting them.... If I have a case
Ta andy
 

Jaws

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I aint so sure..
A few years ago a chap who was working for me had a similar situation
Went to a solicitor who said pay the fine and then context the offence
Outcome for him was good.. He got the fine back and the points removed ..
 
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andy63

andy63

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I think that once the fixed penalty has been accepted, that is the end of it. Sorry, you are out of options...


The payment of a Fixed Penalty prevents any further action being taken with respect to the offence.

Equally, once a Fixed Penalty Notice is accepted, a motorist may not request a court hearing.

If you are issued with a fixed penalty notice for an offence (e.g. using a mobile phone, speeding or driving with no insurance) and you do not accept that you have committed the offence or believe that there are circumstances in connection with the offence that should be considered, you should seek legal advice before accepting the notice.
Thanks David.. I feared that may be the case... It's the 3 points that's peeing me off... and my fault for not looking more carefully at the notice when I got it....
 
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andy63

andy63

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I aint so sure..
A few years ago a chap who was working for me had a similar situation
Went to a solicitor who said pay the fine and then context the offence
Outcome for him was good.. He got the fine back and the points removed ..
Fresh hope.. Thanks jaws...
I will send a letter off asking for confirmation of my thoughts and the reason for the notice... I'll point out that if it was issued as a goods vehicle fine then they couldn't have checked the vehicle details...... see where that goes..
Ta andy

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TheBig1

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I fear that the cost of the solicitor necessary to overturn the offence would be more than the cost of just leaving it as is
 

DanielFord

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Fresh hope.. Thanks jaws...
I will send a letter off asking for confirmation of my thoughts and the reason for the notice... I'll point out that if it was issued as a goods vehicle fine then they couldn't have checked the vehicle details...... see where that goes..
Ta andy
Before you enter into any correspondence, seek legal advice, we are only social media warriors, and you could say something that would prejudice your defence.
 

Abacist

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It seems to me that the fine and points are inequitable because the police, safety partnership or whoever have made a mistake. There is no disputing the speed but the speed was legal for the vehicle being used. I think its very much worth an hour free first appointment with a lawyer specialising in motoring law.

There was NO offence!

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DuxDeluxe

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Fresh hope.. Thanks jaws...
I will send a letter off asking for confirmation of my thoughts and the reason for the notice... I'll point out that if it was issued as a goods vehicle fine then they couldn't have checked the vehicle details...... see where that goes..
Ta andy
That was advice from motoring solicitors, not me..... http://www.motordefencelawyers.co.uk/motoring-offences/fixed-penalty-notice/

I would guess that they know what they are talking about, but worth a shot if it isn't going to cost anything much
 

DanielFord

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Jumping the gun totally, but if you were to win, any half decent motoring lawyer would also be able to recoup any additional costs on insurance that you have had to pay due to the unsound fine!

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DanielFord

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I have done a lot of research in the last few hours. It appears the answer boils down to whether or not you were committing an offence in the first place! If you are classed as a motor caravan, and are under 3.05 tonnes unladen, then you committed no offence, therefore, the conditional offer of FPN was invalid, since you had not committed an offence.
If you are over 3.05 tonnes unladen, then you were committing an offence, and it appears that SP10 is the correct offence code in this circumstance. Even though motor caravans have a separate classification for speed limits, the offence code is the same for restricted vehicles. If this is the case, I am afraid you will have to suck it up and put it down to experience. If you are under weight, then fight it, and see a lawyer.
 

Bobby22

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In august 2015 I got a fixed penalty notice from the Scottish police for what I thought was doing 60 in a 50 mph zone.
I admitted I was the driver ,paid fine and got 3 points.
Today an insurance query took me to a government site to check the date and fixed penalty code..

It turns out that the code is for an SP10... light goods vehicle exceeding the speed limit...
As the vehicle is a Ford transit and registered as a motor caravan I'm assuming that I was still within the law to be doing 60 on a single carriageway
My fault I know for not studying the notice when I got it,but if the above assumptions are right and the notice was issued because I was thought to be a goods vehicle ,then the police didn't check the vehicle details before sending the notice...
Has anyone ever been able to overturn their penalty points after accepting them??
Ta andy..
Hi Andy, in Scotland you cannot be convicted of an offence you have not commited.
Whoever sent you a fixed penalty notice had no right to do so. If i were you i would contact the local police office that sent it and ask them where you stand.

If you have not broken the law they cannot penalise you for it.

My daughter was caught up in a penalty notice thing of driving over a bridge in York, she accepted the penalty and paid the fine.
Months later it turned out that York council had no right to penalise and she got her money back.

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A fellow WildAxer got done for doing 70 on a dual carriageway by North Yorks police and after he researched the limits for his PVC he contacted the police and told them the facts and they apologised and withdrew the notice. However, I don't think he had paid the fine and taken the points etc, so it might be more difficult to get it sorted if you have. I think the police are not very good at knowing this stuff...

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Busman

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Didn't think that van of yours could do 60
Good luck Andy nothing to lose by asking for confirmation
 
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I think that once the fixed penalty has been accepted, that is the end of it. Sorry, you are out of options...


The payment of a Fixed Penalty prevents any further action being taken with respect to the offence.

Equally, once a Fixed Penalty Notice is accepted, a motorist may not request a court hearing.

If you are issued with a fixed penalty notice for an offence (e.g. using a mobile phone, speeding or driving with no insurance) and you do not accept that you have committed the offence or believe that there are circumstances in connection with the offence that should be considered, you should seek legal advice before accepting the notice.
Would only apply if there was an " offence " committed in the first place.

I fear that the cost of the solicitor necessary to overturn the offence would be more than the cost of just leaving it as is
You then claim for all your costs & inconvenience.
That was advice from motoring solicitors, not me..... http://www.motordefencelawyers.co.uk/motoring-offences/fixed-penalty-notice/

I would guess that they know what they are talking about, but worth a shot if it isn't going to cost anything much
Wouldn't want them working for me if Id been illegally executed. :D

In reality the dvla should have picked it up when adding points to licenece as I assume they get details of the offence/vehicle etc ; & don't just take the word of the court ? Then again they probably get so many ,no one even looks.
 
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andy63

andy63

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Thanks for your replies...
I will get a letter off to the police force who issued the notice asking for clarification.
And whenever I receive a reply ill get back on this thread..
Once again thanks
Andy .

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