Speed limits.

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PeteH

PeteH

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Nov 22, 2007
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but if NO centre barrier, (only, say, a grass median) I believe it is a 60mph restricted road.
I`ve had a look online, and although I was told it was the case. I can find no fact to back it up?. Maybe another "Urban Myth"?, although I can see a good case for it.
 
Feb 3, 2018
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I thought that an Armco type barrier was not essential to the definition of a dual carriageway. I understood that it required a separation of the 2 carriageways so that the cars passing in opposite directions were not immediately adjacent to each other.
I remember when the M63 ( now the M60 between Stretford and Worsley) had only a pretty privet hedge between the carriageways....mind blowing today
 

Hirsch

Visiting Coventry
Jul 13, 2020
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You are living in the past they don't use that criteria anymore. 32 is enough to get you a ticket in a 30 these days.

I like the past. Them were the days. Cheap beer and fish n chips. When did it change?

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Jun 10, 2010
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I`ve had a look online, and although I was told it was the case. I can find no fact to back it up?. Maybe another "Urban Myth"?, although I can see a good case for it.
There used to be quite a few with space and no armco. I think they re still classes as dual carriageway regardless.

This would be a very good subject for driver cpc if they had any desire at all to impart something of use 🤣
 
Jun 14, 2020
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It used to be (not sure if the law changed?) but UK speedometers were not permitted to read under the true speed, but we're permitted a tolerance of +3mph +10%. In addition to that you have the permitted tolerance on the speed camera, thus the reason for cameras being set to trigger above the tolerance level.

You could submit a FOI request for the calibrations on the camera in question to see if it has shown drift over time and the error against the relevant calibration device which should itself be calibrated against a national standard.
 
Oct 7, 2015
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Motorhoming since 2015......
Thanks for all the replies/comments, Fellow Funsters! (y)
I’m checking various websites (DVLA, etc.) to get more information, and will contact the Camera Enforcement Unit on Monday to see why this notice has been issued, and how I go about challenging it. I suspect the answer will be that it is just to identify the driver so that a summons may be issued to that person, and that any ‘challenge’ will be addressed then.....:unsure:
Watch this space!

Result!!!!
‘Phoned the Camera Enforcement Unit this morning and spoke to the Camera Offence Processor explaining my reasons for querying the NoIP - she reviewed the footage, spoke to her supervisor, and agreed that the notice should not have been issued, but that it was done on the basis of vehicle tax bands. So, the NoIP has been cancelled (they have emailed me to confirm) and said that I need to take no further action - I am now a very happy bunny!!(y)(y)

One thing occurs to me though - what if I had not challenged the notice......? Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums, or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?:unsure:

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May 7, 2016
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Result!!!!
‘Phoned the Camera Enforcement Unit this morning and spoke to the Camera Offence Processor explaining my reasons for querying the NoIP - she reviewed the footage, spoke to her supervisor, and agreed that the notice should not have been issued, but that it was done on the basis of vehicle tax bands. So, the NoIP has been cancelled (they have emailed me to confirm) and said that I need to take no further action - I am now a very happy bunny!!(y)(y)

One thing occurs to me though - what if I had not challenged the notice......? Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums, or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?:unsure:
Glad you got that sorted. It is also useful information that they assume your unladen weight from the taxation class. A daft system that probably leaves them little choice. Just as well you challenged it.
 
Aug 18, 2014
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Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums,
Yes.
or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?
No.
+ even if you paid & then queried it there is only so long a time before you cannot remove it.
There was someone on here who had similar to you a few years before & he then queried it only to be told that nothing could be done as too long had passed & that he should have known to do it at the time.

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Mar 11, 2014
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One thing occurs to me though - what if I had not challenged the notice......? Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums, or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?:unsure:

Depends - if you had not challenged the notice you do not have to accept the points, you can elect to go to court instead. In which case, your defence would have been that your unladen weight is less than 3050kg and so the higher speed limits apply.
 
May 7, 2016
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Depends - if you had not challenged the notice you do not have to accept the points, you can elect to go to court instead. In which case, your defence would have been that your unladen weight is less than 3050kg and so the higher speed limits apply.
Pleading Not Guilty is far more hassle and probably more costly than phoning them up. Giving them a chance to put their mistake right makes sense to me.
 
Mar 11, 2014
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Pleading Not Guilty is far more hassle and probably more costly than phoning them up. Giving them a chance to put their mistake right makes sense to me.

Definitely, my first course of action would have been to do exactly as AndyPK did and phone them. I was just highlighting that you wouldn't necessarily automatically get points if you didn't initially query it.

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Jan 19, 2014
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One thing occurs to me though - what if I had not challenged the notice......? Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums, or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?
The Scottish police did me for doing 60 in a 50..on the A1 around berwick..
The road constantly changes from dual to single carriageway..
Ie 70 mph to 60mph..
Anyway I just held me hands up and paid £100 and got3 points..
When I came to renew my insurance they wanted details of the offence and it was then I realised id been issued with a SP10...
Which is for a goods vehicle exceeding the speed limit...
My self build transit was re registered with the dvla as a motor caravan.. but the police said they had just reported it was a ford transit .
I complained but the legal advice I got was that once you accept the notice you have no recourse in law to have it overturned..so I was stuck with 3 points when in fact technically I was within my permitted speed for a motor home..
Andy..
 
Jun 10, 2020
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To answer the question about dual carriageways, it has nothing to do with the number of lanes but simply has to have a central reservation. That central reservation can be anything that physically separates the two carriageways, from full concrete barriers to a simple grass strip. The test is simply that there is no continuous tarmac strip from kerb to kerb. Hence the A38M Aston Expressway in Birmingham is a 7 lane motorway but not a dual carriageway!
Van speed limits and/or dual/single carriageway questions are always a hot topic on my speed awareness courses.
 

Coolcats

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Jan 24, 2019
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Result!!!!
‘Phoned the Camera Enforcement Unit this morning and spoke to the Camera Offence Processor explaining my reasons for querying the NoIP - she reviewed the footage, spoke to her supervisor, and agreed that the notice should not have been issued, but that it was done on the basis of vehicle tax bands. So, the NoIP has been cancelled (they have emailed me to confirm) and said that I need to take no further action - I am now a very happy bunny!!(y)(y)

One thing occurs to me though - what if I had not challenged the notice......? Would I have ended-up with points/increased insurance premiums, or would the police have ‘discovered’ the anomaly themselves.........?:unsure:
Interesting one way of challenging the system: a few years ago I had a speeding notice, I live in Essex the speeding incident was in Birmingham and whilst I did go to Bham for business I did nt go on that day I had gone to Cambridge. So I kept getting notices and they kept getting more threatening I just kept ignoring them. Finally I was called to court, the prosecution read out my registration number which was correct, they then stated the vehicle was a blue 4 door saloon, I pointed out that my vehicle was actually a silver two door coupe. Th magistrate was brilliant the prosecution was told in no uncertain terms to get their house in order, I had an apology for my time being wasted. You could have had some fun in doing the same :)

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Oct 7, 2015
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Interesting one way of challenging the system: a few years ago I had a speeding notice, I live in Essex the speeding incident was in Birmingham and whilst I did go to Bham for business I did nt go on that day I had gone to Cambridge. So I kept getting notices and they kept getting more threatening I just kept ignoring them. Finally I was called to court, the prosecution read out my registration number which was correct, they then stated the vehicle was a blue 4 door saloon, I pointed out that my vehicle was actually a silver two door coupe. Th magistrate was brilliant the prosecution was told in no uncertain terms to get their house in order, I had an apology for my time being wasted. You could have had some fun in doing the same :)
Ok.....but how much did it cost to do it that way, and who paid.....? :confused:
 

Coolcats

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Jan 24, 2019
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Ok.....but how much did it cost to do it that way, and who paid.....? :confused:
It cost me nothing I just turned up in court, I had a receipt for a coffee I purchased In Cambridge so even if it was a cloned car that had exactly matched mine even I can’t drive fast enough to travel from Birmingham to Cambridge the timing of the camera and my receipt was about an hours difference. So the compensation I received for my expenses came from the court. I had not engaged a solicitor either I could prove I wasn’t there.
 

Coolcats

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Jan 24, 2019
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Depends - if you had not challenged the notice you do not have to accept the points, you can elect to go to court instead. In which case, your defence would have been that your unladen weight is less than 3050kg and so the higher speed limits apply.
Spot in and would hopefully make the prosecution fact check in future and stop wasting the public’s time

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Nov 5, 2014
1,422
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Borders
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Van Conversion
Did you not ask the police for a description or photograph of the vehicle if you knew it wasn't you, would have saved a lot of hassle and wasted time.
 
Jun 29, 2015
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That doesn’t always work when you have a queue of Audi and BMW drivers so desperate to overtake that you regular see very close near misses and you as the MH driver have slow down even more. 😱
I have a rule for BMW/AUDI types: the closer they get, the slower I go. It often surprises me how long it takes some to realise it 😃
 
Mar 23, 2012
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I have a rule for BMW/AUDI types: the closer they get, the slower I go. It often surprises me how long it takes some to realise it 😃
I do exactly the same. I also find friendly waves annoy stroppy people a lot more than responding in kind.

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Apr 26, 2019
453
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Glasgow
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60,211
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A few years
I wonder if the unladen weight used in any prosecution / fine would be the number quoted on the V5 or the actual, measured unladen weight 🤔

I’ve added semi air suspension and solar, to my MoHo, so would that weight now be included in the Unladen definition or could I argue they were removable accessories??
 
Oct 7, 2015
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Motorhoming since 2015......
From the Gov.uk website.......

Unladen weight
The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.

It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It doesn’t include the weight of:

  • fuel
  • batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair
But it doesn’t seem to take into account any additions to the vehicle.......?

....and what are ‘other items’? :unsure:
 
May 7, 2016
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I wonder if the unladen weight used in any prosecution / fine would be the number quoted on the V5 or the actual, measured unladen weight 🤔

I’ve added semi air suspension and solar, to my MoHo, so would that weight now be included in the Unladen definition or could I argue they were removable accessories??

I can’t see an unladen weight on my V5.

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Jun 8, 2012
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As the Government info, I posted originally proves, If you can prove your UNLADEN mass is 3050kg or below. then the enforcement is in error.

I have not used that particular road for some years so unsure, but if NO centre barrier, (only, say, a grass median) I believe it is a 60mph restricted road.

A grass median is also acceptable.
 
Sep 23, 2013
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Mass in Service is not the same as unladen weight. MiS will always be greater, as it includes enough for the vehicle to be mobile, which unladen weight doesn't.

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Apr 26, 2019
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Glasgow
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Mass in Service is not the same as unladen weight. MiS will always be greater, as it includes enough for the vehicle to be mobile, which unladen weight doesn't.

Thanks for the correction. In that case, I know at least I’m under 3.05t as my MIS is 3000kg.

I’m sure I saw my Unladen weight somewhere - perhaps it was on the Manufacturer’s model literature.
 
Jan 11, 2020
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I’ve only ever seen our unladen weight on Rapido’s own brochures. It doesn’t appear anywhere on the V5, so I have no idea how any enforcement agency would know whether our MH was below or above 3.05t unladen.
 
Apr 26, 2019
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Glasgow
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A few years
I’ve only ever seen our unladen weight on Rapido’s own brochures. It doesn’t appear anywhere on the V5, so I have no idea how any enforcement agency would know whether our MH was below or above 3.05t unladen.

That’s a very good point!

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