Speed limits (1 Viewer)

[Alistair33]

In a recent thread, it went off topic to discuss weights in relation to speed limits which got me thinking that I've no real idea of what speed limit applies.

We are plated at (or will be) 3850 kg so I had assumed the motorway speed limit is 60 mph like a truck but may get away with 70mph as theres no external difference between one plated at 3500kg.

Pleas let me know what my limit is ?

Thanks

 

[jonandshell]

Your speed limit is based on an unladen weight if 3050kg for motorhomes.
Over 3050 kg you should observe 50mph on single carrigeways, 60 on dual carriageway and 70 on motorways.
Below 3050kg, car limits apply.

 

[Ninovan]

Built up areas - as signed
Songle carriageways 50mph
Dual carriageways 60mph
Motorways 70mph.

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[Deleted member 29692]

70mph.

The theoretical difference in speed limit isn't at 3500kg. It reduces to 60mph if you exceed 3050kg unladen weight which is something that only applies to motorhomes for some reason best known to the Department of Transport.

As discussed in the other thread unladen weight is not recorded by motorhome converters so nobody has any way of knowing what your unladen weight is supposed to be which makes the law unenforceable even if anyone ever tried to.

MIRO is NOT the same as unladen weight.

 

[Zigisla]

Only in the UK are things made so difficult. Mass in Service weight - recorded on the V5, is heavier than unladen - 90% fuel and 75Kg for driver plus tools IAW EU directives. DVLA state Unladen weight is no passengers or goods carried and no fuel. It is then assumed that as it is EU directive, the DVLA rely on this info as well. So, as long as your MIS is less than 3050, car speed limits apply for sure. But as stated above buy @NickNic , how anyone can prove this is anyone's guess when the issuing authority apply a limit only Motor homes and not demand this figure is recorded anywhere.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Your speed limit is based on an unladen weight if 3050kg for motorhomes.
Over 3050 kg you should observe 50mph on single carrigeways, 60 on dual carriageway and 70 on motorways.
Below 3050kg, car limits apply.

Very true and to prove you case you could in the case of a case to answer for speeding whip EVERYTHING out of the van, weigh it and put them all back, it is the 3050 kg unladen weight everything out it might be down to 2500 kg or less. End of their case then. I believe the 3050 limit applies to ALL vans not just motorhomes.

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[Deleted member 29692]

Very true and to prove you case you could in the case of a case to answer for speeding whip EVERYTHING out of the van, weigh it and put them all back, it is the 3050 kg unladen weight everything out it might be down to 2500 kg or less. End of their case then. I believe the 3050 limit applies to ALL vans not just motorhomes.

Only if you drain the fuel tank as well

It is only motorhomes, it doesn't apply to any other vehicle.

 

[Emmit]

Had a conversation in France last year with a fellow motor homer who got 'flashed' by a camera in Cornwall (He's a resident of the County).
He took it on the chin and even did a Speed Awareness Course rather than the points.
He was in a Van conversion that was obviously under the 3050Kgs.and when I told him that not only was the Prosecution 'unsafe', he needn't have gone on the Course either he was, how shall we say, fuming.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

He was in a Van conversion that was obviously under the 3050Kgs.and when I told him that not only was the Prosecution 'unsafe', he needn't have gone on the Course either he was, how shall we say, fuming.

How do you know he was obviously under the 3050kg and how would you suggest he went about proving it?

Lots of people have panel van conversions plated at 4 tons plus. Panel van does not necessarily equate to small and light.

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[Chris]

Many , many years ago and long before I had a motorhome I was instructed by a USA RV manufacturer to fight a summons for one of its customers driving a RV in the fast lane of the M4.

My memory is hazy but I think it was over 7.5 tonnes and therefore not allowed in the outside lane. The argument I recall was that it was a leisure vehicle and therefore not a HGV.

We all turned up in Court and the CPS offered no evidence and the case was dropped so no ruling was made on what at the time was a loophole in the law.

I forget the detail to be honest and it may be the case that the law has been clarified since.

 

[PP Bear]

Government website

 

[Cavs]

The 3,050 kg limit is a hangover from the old definitions of class of vehicle, motor car and heavy motor car (note this is nothing to do with taxation class or looking like a car). A heavy motor car was/is anything over 3 tons unladen weight. It is liable to different speed limits and is barred from the offside lane of a motorway.

I think it now applies only to motorhomes because virtually everything else has had later definitions or regulations applied.

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[2657]

I believe the 3050 limit applies to ALL vans not just motorhomes.

The 3050 limit does not apply but most vans that are not 'car derived' are subject to the same speed limits see section 7 in the list posted by @PP Bear, this includes small vans and pickups as they are classified as goods vehicles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...es/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles

 

[ambulancekidd]

We are plated at (or will be) 3850 kg so I had assumed the motorway speed limit is 60 mph like a truck but may get away with 70mph as theres no external difference between one plated at 3500kg.

I certainly wouldn't risk driving at 70mph & I'm not trying to be a killjoy in saying so. An awful lot of speed cameras & in particular "Average Speed" cameras know what weight your vehicle is, its all programmed in. Now if I was trying to be a killjoy I'd point out that these speed limits are in place for a reason, take it from me its no fun trying to bring a heavy vehicle to a quick stop, our ambulances tended to weigh in at just under 5 tonnes when loaded with kit & patients/relatives, so I've got many years of experience in driving heavily laden vehicles rather quickly (an ambulance is similar in many ways to a motorhome) it got properly scary at times, I'm happily retired now.

One other thing is that if your thinking of breaking the law in any way shape or form, don't post it on social media & by that I mean on here. Lets imagine a scenario, you've been speeding & it has all gone horribly wrong, you stand up in court to argue your case & the prosecution wheel out your comments on here! Horror upon horrors it'd be very damning evidence.

Just leave a little earlier & enjoy the journey, its surprisingly enjoyable & no stress to give you a headache.

 

[Allanm]

Only in the UK are things made so difficult. Mass in Service weight - recorded on the V5, is heavier than unladen - 90% fuel and 75Kg for driver plus tools IAW EU directives. DVLA state Unladen weight is no passengers or goods carried and no fuel. It is then assumed that as it is EU directive, the DVLA rely on this info as well. So, as long as your MIS is less than 3050, car speed limits apply for sure. But as stated above buy @NickNic , how anyone can prove this is anyone's guess when the issuing authority apply a limit only Motor homes and not demand this figure is recorded anywhere.

The MIro of our van is recorded in the handbook, as well as all other Swift models of the same year, ours us shown as 2778kg, but then the essential habitation equipment is 152kg, bringing the MIS up to just under 3000kg. But, I have no idea what this essential equipment consists of, so, really, I am none the wiser!
Strangely, the V5 doesn't show any weights on it.

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[Alistair33]

The MIRO of our van is stated at 2910kg so in reference to the chart above we are under 3050kg and therefore 'normal' are limits apply regarding speed ........ And I guess access to the outside lane on a motorway?

 

[2657]

It would seem to me that the simplest solution would be to do away with the two motorhome categories completely and make them subject to the same limits as goods vehicles, which is essentially what they are.

I can see no logic whatsoever in having a higher speed limit for a leisure vehicle than the equivalent goods vehicle.

 

[gus-lopez]

How do you know he was obviously under the 3050kg and how would you suggest he went about proving it?

Lots of people have panel van conversions plated at 4 tons plus. Panel van does not necessarily equate to small and light.

If I was unfortunate enough to fall foul of it I would strip it bare ,trailer it to a weighbridge ,empty all fluids including engine ,gearbox, etc; & all videoed & weighed in presence of a solicitor to confirm everything. Then again I am awkward. Then I 'd have a claim in for all the time /labour ,etc.

Many , many years ago and long before I had a motorhome I was instructed by a USA RV manufacturer to fight a summons for one of its customers driving a RV in the fast lane of the M4.

My memory is hazy but I think it was over 7.5 tonnes and therefore not allowed in the outside lane. The argument I recall was that it was a leisure vehicle and therefore not a HGV.

We all turned up in Court and the CPS offered no evidence and the case was dropped so no ruling was made on what at the time was a loophole in the law.

I forget the detail to be honest and it may be the case that the law has been clarified since.

It was the same if you had a privately owned HGV tractor unit with the 5th wheel plate physically balnked off. Drive on car licence, use outside lane+ car speed limits applied. Don't think it has been changed ?

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[Ksagic]

Blimey, I must be in the minority here. At my weight, length etc I would find myself in a very unstable motorhome @ 70mph what with side winds and 'bow' waves from overtaking others.
58 - 60 mph is well fast enough for me....and I bet I get there within minutes of those that do want to speed. By the way, when driving the motorhome, whats the outside lane....never been there...

 

[GWAYGWAY]

I

Blimey, I must be in the minority here. At my weight, length etc I would find myself in a very unstable motorhome @ 70mph what with side winds and 'bow' waves from overtaking others.
58 - 60 mph is well fast enough for me....and I bet I get there within minutes of those that do want to speed. By the way, when driving the motorhome, whats the outside lane....never been there...

I have but do not like it, the tendency for the Elephant Racers to travel at 56 mph for ten miles trying to overtake each other let alone a whole queue of other trucks all doing the same speed. You would think that it would dawn on some of them, that it is not worth doing an overtake of two or more trucks or even one other, if the limiters are set to the same speed.

 

[scotzsue]

70mph.

The theoretical difference in speed limit isn't at 3500kg. It reduces to 60mph if you exceed 3050kg unladen weight which is something that only applies to motorhomes for some reason best known to the Department of Transport.

As discussed in the other thread unladen weight is not recorded by motorhome converters so nobody has any way of knowing what your unladen weight is supposed to be which makes the law unenforceable even if anyone ever tried to.

MIRO is NOT the same as unladen weight.

am sure our unladen weight is on the v5 or whatever it is called though it might be in the CI manual. Know I have it somewhere.

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[MrsMac59]

Very true and to prove you case you could in the case of a case to answer for speeding whip EVERYTHING out of the van, weigh it and put them all back, it is the 3050 kg unladen weight everything out it might be down to 2500 kg or less. End of their case then. I believe the 3050 limit applies to ALL vans not just motorhomes.

Or you could just save yourself a lot of hassle and simple stick to the speed limits.

 

[jongood]

I
I have but do not like it, the tendency for the Elephant Racers to travel at 56 mph for ten miles trying to overtake each other let alone a whole queue of other trucks all doing the same speed. You would think that it would dawn on some of them, that it is not worth doing an overtake of two or more trucks or even one other, if the limiters are set to the same speed.

Its not actually that simple.

I would agree that some of it is silly, but you are taking the effect of hills and loading into account. A laden lower powered lorry can really drop off on the hills. but potentially be faster down them leading to a degree of frustration.

 

[nicholsong]

am sure our unladen weight is on the v5 or whatever it is called though it might be in the CI manual. Know I have it somewhere.

Bet you do not.

There is no section for it on the V5C, which is in international format.

If the manufacturers states a 'empty' weight for marketing purposes it will be based on MIRO (Mass in Running Order) with specific allowances for driver, fuel, water etc. But that is not the 'Unladen weight' as defined by law.

Even if one tried to calculate the Unladen weight there is no guarantee that your particular vehicle came out of the factory at that weight; then one would need to add on awning, extra gas bottle, tow-bar, etc.

Geofff

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[nicholsong]

Its not actually that simple.

I would agree that some of it is silly, but you are taking the effect of hills and loading into account. A laden lower powered lorry can really drop off on the hills. but potentially be faster down them leading to a degree of frustration.

When I am approaching a long hill on a 3-lane M/Way and behind HGVs, some of which may be running empty but one of which might be loaded(over?), I pull into the middle lane and get my speed up to 65mph(2300rpm) which I know I can sustain and pass any HGV 'laggards'. If ones speed and revs drop below 60 rpm one is trapped in the inside lane with no chance of overtaking.

Then of course the slow truck zooms down the other side of the hill, with it out of gear or clutch depressed, risking of course a Tacho check by authorities or his company Transport Manager, who himself can lose his Operator's Licence if he does not check Tachos.

Using this technique, now our MH has been remapped, has kept up our average speed and slightly improved MPG by staying in 5th (can't afford a 6-gear model yet)

Geoff