speed limits over 3500kg (1 Viewer)

[Deleted member 29692]

............. and, if it's A class or coachbuilt, remove the body as well?

No.

Unladen weight is the finished vehicle as it comes off the production line with nothing added and no engine fluids.

That’s why it’s not possible to record it for motorhomes which are built using a two stage process with the fluids being added after stage 1.

The base chassis manufacturers may well record a figure as part of their standard process but it would obviously be meaningless when it’s off to the next factory to have a ton and a half of wood, aluminium and assorted other things added to it.

 

[tonyidle]

No.

Unladen weight is the finished vehicle as it comes off the production line with nothing added and no engine fluids.

That’s why it’s not possible to record it for motorhomes which are built using a two stage process with the fluids being added after stage 1.

The base chassis manufacturers may well record a figure as part of their standard process but it would obviously be meaningless when it’s off to the next factory to have a ton and a half of wood, aluminium and assorted other things added to it.

I was being facetious.

It's all utterly irrelevant to the MH market and I'm at a loss to understand why it generates so much interest - it certainly doesn't exercise the Police in any country and isn't checked by traffic cameras. And anyone travelling at a speedo-read 10mph above any limit is going to be within any leeway allowed.

 

[andy63]

Im just going to relate my experience of been done for speeding in my panel van conversion...which is registered as a motor caravan with the dvla and recorded as such on the v5.
Got a summons for doing 60mph when it should have been 50mph..
I was busy at the time (no excuse i know ) and just held my hands up and paid..
At insurance renewal time i had to supply details of the notice and it was then that the penny dropped..
I had been done for exceeding the speed limit for a light goods vehicle..
A 50mph speed limit applied to vans... but wouldnt have applied to a motorcaravan...
The police just said that i came up as a ford transit van on their search even though the log book states motor caravan.
If i had realised ie read it properly , that my summons was for a light goods vehicle i could have appealed and saved myself £100 and 3 points but once id accepted it there is no facility in law to challange it later..
Just for information of anyone in a panel van conversion...
Andy.

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[Lenny HB]

Unladen weight is now been absorbed into Miro or Kerbweight as unladen weight is not clearly defined .

Unladen weight is as the vehicle is ready to use .

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained

So they have changed the definition of unladen weight but the speed limit was set when the definition was different. So a lot of Motorhomes that would of been legal at the higher speed are not any more. Well thats the way I see it.

 

[Larby]

Following this thread I have just checked the various documents for our 4500kg Carthago C-Line.

I can keep up with the BMW's and Audi's now........but only in the UK.

Richard.

Don't forget to disable the indicators then

 

[Clarky]

So they have changed the definition of unladen weight but the speed limit was set when the definition was different. So a lot of Motorhomes that would of been legal at the higher speed are not any more. Well thats the way I see it.

It's all as clear as mud to me.

Richard.

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[Mr Chrysalis]

Im just going to relate my experience of been done for speeding in my panel van conversion...which is registered as a motor caravan with the dvla and recorded as such on the v5.
Got a summons for doing 60mph when it should have been 50mph..
I was busy at the time (no excuse i know ) and just held my hands up and paid..
At insurance renewal time i had to supply details of the notice and it was then that the penny dropped..
I had been done for exceeding the speed limit for a light goods vehicle..
A 50mph speed limit applied to vans... but wouldnt have applied to a motorcaravan...
The police just said that i came up as a ford transit van on their search even though the log book states motor caravan.
If i had realised ie read it properly , that my summons was for a light goods vehicle i could have appealed and saved myself £100 and 3 points but once id accepted it there is no facility in law to challange it later..
Just for information of anyone in a panel van conversion...
Andy.

And your insurance will be higher for next 10 years as they always ask if you have had any convictions

 

[SMB]

That is also the limit for ALL vans, regardless of size/weight, without windows. Motorhomes have there own speed limits different from cars. I.e. maximum is 100kph on mways

I never knew that!

 

[2657]

I never knew that!

Also pickup trucks.

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[Norfolk Nomad]

Also pickup trucks.

Most pickups with 4 seats are classed as duel purpose vehicles in the UK, therefore car speed limits apply, not sure about the rest of Europe.

 

[2657]

Most pickups with 4 seats are classed as duel purpose vehicles in the UK, therefore car speed limits apply, not sure about the rest of Europe.

I think that you are wrong on that one, taxed as PLG and the same speed limits apply, I owned one for 8 years, no idea about the rest of europe.

Google UK speed limit pickup and you will see, I cannot post a link on the tablet that I am using.

 

[soreeyes]

You can't. That's the point. No such figure is recorded.

That makes the UK method of applying speed limits to motor caravans completely unenforceable for all practical purposes.

If anyone cared enough to do anything about it, which nobody does, the fix would be nothing to do with MIRO. They would simply use MGW instead, like they do for every single other class of vehicle, and say >3500kg the lower limits apply.

This topic comes up every few months. It's been done to death.

Totally agree that it should only be based on the MGW of the vehicle and that would make far more sense .

Stupid outdated laws that date back 50 years ago another example is a pickup with a single cab and double cab but as the double has rear seats it is a utility vehicle it can travel at higher speed although basically the same vehicles .


Single is a goods vehicle but double can carry goods and passengers so utility vehicle .

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[Norfolk Nomad]

I think that you are wrong on that one, taxed as PLG and the same speed limits apply, I owned one for 8 years, no idea about the rest of europe.

Google UK speed limit pickup and you will see, I cannot post a link on the tablet that I am using.

 

[2657]

Yes, I have seen that and done a little research since.

Even the Gov website can't get things right and refers to 2000k 'laden' weight with a link to a page describing Dual Purpose Vehicles as having an 'unladen' weight less than 2040k. Unfortunately can't find the link now that mentioned 2000k laden.

So where does that leave us, I would think that the definition using unladen weight is correct as this is used in the construction and use regulations.

However my truck was/is classed as Private Light Goods (PLG)in the log book and VED paid accordingly, not as a Dual Purpose Vehicle, which have different VED rates, so I will continue to assume that the speed limits for PLG apply, similar to converted panel vans that have not had their status changed with DVLA.

I am not sure that there is a category for Dual Purpose Vehicles on log books, another governmental grey area it seems.

 

[gus-lopez]

No.

Unladen weight is the finished vehicle as it comes off the production line with nothing added and no engine fluids.

That’s why it’s not possible to record it for motorhomes which are built using a two stage process with the fluids being added after stage 1.

The base chassis manufacturers may well record a figure as part of their standard process but it would obviously be meaningless when it’s off to the next factory to have a ton and a half of wood, aluminium and assorted other things added to it.

Fortunately here they have the original u/l of the chassis cab on the log books here.

I was being facetious.

It's all utterly irrelevant to the MH market and I'm at a loss to understand why it generates so much interest - it certainly doesn't exercise the Police in any country and isn't checked by traffic cameras. And anyone travelling at a speedo-read 10mph above any limit is going to be within any leeway allowed.

With Trafico here, in some regions, the difference between unladen weight & gross vehicle weight is what they base the fine on if you are over .
I.e.
If you are 3000kgs U/L & 3,500kgs gross then you have a pay load of 500kgs.
if you are 150kgs overweight when stopped it is as a % of 500kgs not 3,500kgs = 30% & would bankrupt you the fine.

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[Lenny HB]

.
I.e.
If you are 3000kgs U/L & 3,500kgs gross then you have a pay load of 500kgs.
if you are 150kgs overweight when stopped it is as a % of 500kgs not 3,500kgs = 30% & would bankrupt you the fine.

That would soon get a load of overweight idiots off the road especially if they applied it to caravans as well.

 

[tonyidle]

That would soon get a load of overweight idiots off the road especially if they applied it to caravans as well.

How do they determine the ul weight?

 

[TR5]

As already determined, GVW less the payload is not the Unladen Weight - far from it, but is the MIRO, or mass in service as some call it. Certainly in the UK, you are more likely to be prosecuted for being overweight, than exceeding the reduced national speed limits, unless very obviously well over the U/L weight of 3050kg. The payload is also an undetermined figure, as every additional fixture you put into the motorhome reduces the user payload by the weight of the fixture.

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