Solar stuff doing my head in >.<

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MarionK

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Ducato Cheyenne 585
For various reasons I principally want a stand alone system for charging devices and power packs, but then again, the ability to top up the mh leisure battery is also desirable, as it would enable staying off grid in one place for longer. Perhaps this would be best achieved by having a power pack that can in turn be used to charge a lead acid battery, rather than using the panel to directly charge the mh battery?

I have had a solar battery maintainer (for a car) in the past, and it seemed very simple. Maybe it was because it was so small, it didn't need complicated controllers? Whatever the reason, camping solar seems to be a complete minefield. I'm sure what I want is out there somewhere, it's just finding it is the problem!!!
 
The commonest solution is to have roof mounted panels which charge the leisure batteries. This doesn't mean you can't charge other devices as you can add USB sockets and cigar lighter sockets as well. This arrangement allows you to charge devices up overnight when you are not using them.

A controller is essential to prevent damage to the batteries. Your car battery maintainer would have one built in.

If you want to go down the portable route you could choose something like this, but you will have to find somewhere to store it and it could be easily stolen.

12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

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MarionK said:
For various reasons I principally want a stand alone system for charging devices and power packs, but then again, the ability to top up the mh leisure battery is also desirable, as it would enable staying off grid in one place for longer. Perhaps this would be best achieved by having a power pack that can in turn be used to charge a lead acid battery, rather than using the panel to directly charge the mh battery?

I have had a solar battery maintainer (for a car) in the past, and it seemed very simple. Maybe it was because it was so small, it didn't need complicated controllers? Whatever the reason, camping solar seems to be a complete minefield. I'm sure what I want is out there somewhere, it's just finding it is the problem!!!
Click to expand...
The most common method is to fit one of these.
By far the simplest method of charging your battery's


 
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DBK said:
The commonest solution is to have roof mounted panels which charge the leisure batteries. This doesn't mean you can't charge other devices as you can add USB sockets and cigar lighter sockets as well. This arrangement allows you to charge devices up overnight when you are not using them.

A controller is essential to prevent damage to the batteries. Your car battery maintainer would have one built in.

If you want to go down the portable route you could choose something like this, but you will have to find somewhere to store it and it could be easily stolen.

12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

12V solar panel solar charging kits for motorhome caravan boat campervan yacht marine off-grid
www.photonicuniverse.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. :)
Unless I've missed something, this won't charge any of my devices directly. I do like that it folds down nicely and has angle adjustable supports though.
Stealaway said:
The most common method is to fit one of these.
By far the simplest method of charging your battery's


Click to expand...
And this one looks like it will charge my USB devices, but isn't very portable! :D
 
This site contains affiliate links for which MHF may be compensated.
Do you not have any 12v outlets ?

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The below 100 watt system is £549 fitted less a 10% funster discount, a free battery master fitted which keeps the starter battery charged and a free night at Vanbitz's own campsite.
I had the115 watt system fitted and spent 24 nights continuous off EHU in July. In fact since it was fitted just over 3 months ago every trip has been off EHU.
Screenshot_20220827_194431_com.android.chrome.jpg
 
MarionK said:
Only one and I think it's limited output, as the TV works fine on it, but while it looks like it's charging my phone or w/e, it doesn't actually charge them.
Click to expand...
I run a clipsil plug with a cigarette lighter socket from my max 4amp 12v TV socket. I plug a double USB charger into this lighter socket and can charge 2 mobiles simultaneously or a mobile and a tablet. I also plug a 4 bay lithium battery charger into it to charge torch batteries with no problems.
 
headlight said:
I run a clipsil plug with a cigarette lighter socket from my max 4amp 12v TV socket. I plug a double USB charger into this lighter socket and can charge 2 mobiles simultaneously or a mobile and a tablet. I also plug a 4 bay lithium battery charger into it to charge torch batteries with no problems.
Click to expand...
How do I find out the max amp of my TV socket?

I already have clipsil/cig lighter adapter in order to run the tv. I guess it's not impossible that the USB charger is at fault tho, need to get another to be sure of it.
 
I think I may have found what I need on the site that DBK linked to.
If I can swap out the controller of the folding kit for one with USB port(s), that'll do me nicely. IF . . .

12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

12V solar panel solar charging kits for motorhome caravan boat campervan yacht marine off-grid
www.photonicuniverse.com

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MarionK said:
Only one and I think it's limited output, as the TV works fine on it, but while it looks like it's charging my phone or w/e, it doesn't actually charge them.
Click to expand...
Charging from 12V sockets is very good when it works, but you have to get the right adapters. USB adapters vary widely, from ancient relics that just about give 500mA at 5V to massive power adapters that can fast charge a laptop at 100W, giving out 5A at 20V.

For a modern phone with a wire that's got a rectangular 'Type A' USB plug, look for an adapter that is Quick Charge 3 (QC3) or later. The USB plug has 4 wires, 2 power and 2 data. A modern phone uses the data lines to request a higher voltage and current from the charger, so it will get 9V or 12V, instead of the 5V that an older phone will get.

If the phone is the later USB-C type, look for an adapter with 'Power Delivery' (PD). These vary in power in the same sort of way, but have a higher upper limit. All this communication is totally automatic, no need to worry about plugging in an older device, it will be fine.
Amazon product ASIN B0927TBPR7Amazon product ASIN B07VP3HLGWor if you have an iPhone you might want an iQ adapter like this
Amazon product ASIN B07PGT7LSR
 
MarionK said:
I have had a solar battery maintainer (for a car) in the past, and it seemed very simple. Maybe it was because it was so small, it didn't need complicated controllers?
Click to expand...
I had one of those too, it worked great. Small panels up to about 10W or 20W don't need controllers, they wouldn't overcharge a battery even in 24/7 sunlight. But anything bigger needs a controller.

Some people have folding 'suitcase' panels, which can be put in the sun when the MH is in shade, and is useful if you sometimes go tent camping. One disadvantage is you might not want to leave them out while you are away from the MH, in case they disappear. A panel fixed to the roof is available all the time,even when you are out for the day.
 
I think we need to know more about Marion's requirements rather than blindly guess at a solution. I find in posts like this the OP (Original Poster) already has a solution in mind that may not be the best option.

What are the 'various reasons' for wanting a standalone system? Is it that you may use it away from the motorhome? What exactly are you wanting to recharge and how many times? When you're talking power packs you can get little ones (that you can take on a plane) that recharge a phone a couple of times that could do you for a day of sightseeing (heavy phone use) away from the solar on the van.

However if you are thinking you need a weeks worth of power in a form you can use when not using your motorhome (with no way to recharge it) then you're talking serious (and expensive) power pack.

So people answering 'get this', or 'get that it's what I use', is no good as we all have different requirements.
 
MarionK said:
For various reasons I principally want a stand alone system for charging devices and power packs, but then again, the ability to top up the mh leisure battery is also desirable, as it would enable staying off grid in one place for longer. Perhaps this would be best achieved by having a power pack that can in turn be used to charge a lead acid battery, rather than using the panel to directly charge the mh battery?

I have had a solar battery maintainer (for a car) in the past, and it seemed very simple. Maybe it was because it was so small, it didn't need complicated controllers? Whatever the reason, camping solar seems to be a complete minefield. I'm sure what I want is out there somewhere, it's just finding it is the problem!!!
Click to expand...
I was looking at a jackey which you can use to hook up the shore power and charge the battery but it’s inefficient ( or so I’m told). I just bought a panel and cabling etc from sun store and a schaudt controller from eBay along with an inverter from Argos. £350 all in and works a treat.

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I have a small solar charged power pack which charges my devices iPhone iPad kindle but you must use proper apple leads or it takes ages
 
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wfdTamar said:
I think we need to know more about Marion's requirements rather than blindly guess at a solution. I find in posts like this the OP (Original Poster) already has a solution in mind that may not be the best option.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I have realised that my 'recharge the mh leisure battery from a power pack' idea is not necessary.
wfdTamar said:
What are the 'various reasons' for wanting a standalone system? Is it that you may use it away from the motorhome? What exactly are you wanting to recharge and how many times? When you're talking power packs you can get little ones (that you can take on a plane) that recharge a phone a couple of times that could do you for a day of sightseeing (heavy phone use) away from the solar on the van.
Click to expand...
Use elsewhere than the mh is one of them, the dodgy charging in the mh another, (still relevant even if it's actually my ciggy charger that's faulty-I'd also be stuck if the battery went, also don't want to be messing about fixing stuff to the roof. Quite a big one tho is the ability to place at the optimal angle and keep moving it. I will need to keep at least my phone, tablet and smallish powerbank topped up, the tablet and power bank have fairly heavy use, even at home. I have no idea what the consumption of my new phone will be, I do know that my old one ran out in no time when using it as a hotspot. The new one is a nokia C20. I would also, as mentioned, like to keep my leisure battery topped up, even tho it has minimal usage. (Water pump, gas fridge controller, maybe a TV one day.) I had meant a bigger power pack, like a heavy duty jump start one, but have scrapped that idea. (Altho', if I can figure out how to keep that charged too that would not be a bad thing, but not essential.) I won't be trekking far enough to need to carry the solar any real distance. As you suggest, my little powerbank should do for the odd day sightseeing, as long as I can keep it properly charged.
wfdTamar said:
However if you are thinking you need a weeks worth of power in a form you can use when not using your motorhome (with no way to recharge it) then you're talking serious (and expensive) power pack.

So people answering 'get this', or 'get that it's what I use', is no good as we all have different requirements.
Click to expand...
No, that's actually kind of what I'm trying to avoid. :) I don't like to run low of essentials, including leccy. ;)
 
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Your Nokia C20 has a 3amp battery so approximately 3amps needed to charge it fully from flat. Tablets tend to have 5 - 6 amp batteries so 5-6 amps required to charge it fully from flat. I have no idea how many amps your small power bank has but could be anywhere from 2.5-3 amps to maybe 10 amps.
In good weather, ie sunshine all day a 100 watt solar suitcase with a PWM controller will probably produce a max of 5-6 amps per hour around noon and maybe 25 amps'ish over the course of a day, obviously moving the panel several times a day to keep it pointed directly at the sun.
Personally I would go for a roof mounted panel, MPPT controller and battery master like the Vanbitz one I posted as it will charge your leisure battery and keep your starter battery charged meaning you could also charge your phone/tablet from the cab ciggie lighter or cab 12v outlet.
But obviously each to their own (y)

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headlight said:
Your Nokia C20 has a 3amp battery so approximately 3amps needed to charge it fully from flat. Tablets tend to have 5 - 6 amp batteries so 5-6 amps required to charge it fully from flat. I have no idea how many amps your small power bank has but could be anywhere from 2.5-3 amps to maybe 10 amps.
In good weather, ie sunshine all day a 100 watt solar suitcase with a PWM controller will probably produce a max of 5-6 amps per hour around noon and maybe 25 amps'ish over the course of a day, obviously moving the panel several times a day to keep it pointed directly at the sun.
Personally I would go for a roof mounted panel, MPPT controller and battery master like the Vanbitz one I posted as it will charge your leisure battery and keep your starter battery charged meaning you could also charge your phone/tablet from the cab ciggie lighter or cab 12v outlet.
But obviously each to their own (y)
Click to expand...
You mean amp hours (Ah) not amps (A). Just clarifying as it may confuse folk otherwise. :)
 
DBK said:
The commonest solution is to have roof mounted panels which charge the leisure batteries. This doesn't mean you can't charge other devices as you can add USB sockets and cigar lighter sockets as well. This arrangement allows you to charge devices up overnight when you are not using them.

A controller is essential to prevent damage to the batteries. Your car battery maintainer would have one built in.

If you want to go down the portable route you could choose something like this, but you will have to find somewhere to store it and it could be easily stolen.

12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

12V solar panel solar charging kits for motorhome caravan boat campervan yacht marine off-grid
www.photonicuniverse.com
Click to expand...
Better price at https://lowenergysupermarket.com/product/100w-folding-portable-solar-panel/ I have one!
 
DBK said:
You mean amp hours (Ah) not amps (A). Just clarifying as it may confuse folk otherwise. :)
Click to expand...
Still a bit confusing though unless we know the voltage ;)
 
Amps and amp-hours are not a good way of comparing device batteries because the voltages are all different. Unlike in a MH where you are always talking about 12V. Battery energy capacity is measured in watt-hours. For example the Nokia C20 Plus has an 18.75Wh battery. Since its voltage is 3.85V, its amp-hour capacity is 18.75 / 3.85 = 4.87Ah. However to fill it from a 12V battery would require 18.75Wh, or 18.75/12 = 1.56Ah from the 12V battery because the voltage is different.

Small power packs, of the type you can take on planes for example, are up to 100Wh, the maximum allowed on a plane. Since its voltage is 3.8V, its Ah capacity is 100 / 3.8 = 26.3Ah, so it is advertised as 26300mAh. To fill it from a 12V charger it requires 100 / 12 = 8.3 Ah from the 12V battery.

I find it's better to think of the energy capacity of the leisure batteries in watt-hours rather than amp-hours for this kind of problem. A 12V 100Ah leisure battery can hold 100 x 12 = 1200 watt-hours of energy. A solar panel producing 6A is producing 6 x 12 = 72 watts, or you can think of it as 72 watt-hours per hour if you prefer.
 
mitzimad said:
NEEDS 4MM MINIMUM
Click to expand...
Took me a while to realise you misread my post. >.<
I was referring to the length of cable supplied. 2.5m will not let the panels be set up at any distance from the mh. Probably intentional, as longer cable means more power lost to resistance.
 
Nothing difficult in your requirements. As long as you have a decent leisure battery you should be fine. The one cigarette socket - is that in the dashboard? If so it runs off the starter battery so you only want to be using that when driving. Any strong, prolonged use when not driving runs the risk of not being able to start the van.

If you don't have any (running off the leisure battery) I'd install a combination cigarette and USB socket combo running off the leisure battery.

As you don't want to attach stuff to the roof get a 100-200 watt portable solar panel (with MPPT controller) to recharge the leisure battery. I'm not sure how they connect to the battery (I mean get from outside to inside), maybe a connection under a flap on the van side? Or pass a cable through the window?

One good reason to have fixed panel(s) on the roof is that it can keep leisure and starter batteries charged wether you're there or not. In storage if outdoors, or while you go away from the van. If you go off sightseeing for the day you wouldn't want to leave a portable one out (unless you can stick it inside on the dashboard).
 
I'm almost certainly going to get I have ordered - the 'lowenergysupermarket' kit that headlight and Johnvg have suggested.

wfdTamar said:
Nothing difficult in your requirements. As long as you have a decent leisure battery you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Any 'decent leisure battery' is fine, until it's not. That's one of the reasons for wanting a set-up that can charge usb devices independently of the mh system.

wfdTamar said:
The one cigarette socket - is that in the dashboard? If so it runs off the starter battery so you only want to be using that when driving. Any strong, prolonged use when not driving runs the risk of not being able to start the van.
Click to expand...
The dashboard one is dead, it's on the to do list for the mechanic. ;) I would only use it for charging while on the road though. I suspect it won't work unless the engine is running anyway, so not actually much good in an emergency!

wfdTamar said:
If you don't have any (running off the leisure battery) I'd install a combination cigarette and USB socket combo running off the leisure battery.
Click to expand...
Depending on what the problem is with the 12v hab socket, I might do that, ty for the idea.

wfdTamar said:
As you don't want to attach stuff to the roof get a 100-200 watt portable solar panel (with MPPT controller) to recharge the leisure battery. I'm not sure how they connect to the battery (I mean get from outside to inside), maybe a connection under a flap on the van side? Or pass a cable through the window?
Click to expand...
In a pinch through the cab window (battery is under the driver's seat). If it's raining hard, I can tape over the rest of the opening, but actually it's pretty well protected by the luton. Hopefully I will be able to sort something more 'elegant' tho. There must be a hole somewhere under the bonnet for the cab electrics, hopefully with room for another wire.

wfdTamar said:
One good reason to have fixed panel(s) on the roof is that it can keep leisure and starter batteries charged wether you're there or not. In storage if outdoors, or while you go away from the van. If you go off sightseeing for the day you wouldn't want to leave a portable one out (unless you can stick it inside on the dashboard).
Click to expand...
That was a bit of a 'd'oh' moment there! I hadn't thought of that, even though I used to do just that with a trickle charger panel for years!

I don't anticipate being away from the van long enough or often enough for the odd day of no top up charging to be an issue for the hab battery. The van itself though, could be in one place for very long periods. Not so good for the starter battery, and while I could hook the panel up to the cab battery now and then (or get a B2B thing), a trickle charger would be a lot less fuss. The luton shades the cab a LOT, so sadly I won't be able to put the 100w panel up in the cab, but the trickle charger can go up on either door window. :)
 
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When I had a PVC I had the LowEnergy 100 watt suitcase.
I made up a 20ft extension from 4.5mm2 cable which allowed me to place the panel anywhere around the outside of the van.
I passed the lead through the drivers window to the leisure battery.
I cut a piece of foam pipe lagging to length, put it on the top of the window glass and closed the window squashing the lagging and sealing the gap.
I only used the supplied short lead with croc clips to very occasionally connect to the starter battery to top it up.

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