Solar Panels (1 Viewer)

[jhorsf]

Well I just got a newsletter from another forum telling me how cheap his solar panels are in a link so I had a look 80watt panel £300 good luck with selling them

heres a clue Broken Link Removed


do Solar Panels work on the D side?

 

[wivvy's dad]

They won't work on the dark side...



































The clue is in.......................................dark

 

[hilldweller]

Well I just got a newsletter from another forum telling me how cheap his solar panels are in a link so I had a look 80watt panel £300 good luck with selling them

Good god, I just looked.

80W Ultimate kit £638 discounted to £580.

He'll sell you an 80W panel for only £409.

This man is so good to the MHers of this world he should be knighted.

If he sells one it's a sign just how bad our education system is.

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[JJ]

Slightly, but only slightly, off topic...

What should a decent Funster do if he is there at a show and some slick salesman is spinning a load of deceitful spiel to an obvious newby couple about what the solar panels will do and how cheap his are etc etc...?

Should you mind your own business... dispute his "facts" there and then for the benefit of onlookers or wait until the conversation is over and take the couple to one side and tell them your thoughts?

JJ :Cool:

 

[Reallyretired]

I would like to think I would discreetly inform them of the true facts, though in the past I have discussed it in a loudish voice with the salesman. I think it's allowable for a salesman to show his products in a good light, however if he's telling enormous porkies then I think thats a bit out of order.:Angry:

 

[Reallyretired]

On second thoughts perhaps I should have sold the 3 I recently bought. If I got his prices I could have bought 12. Anyone do a roof extension?

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[Gooney]

Depends on how big he is

 

[chrisgreen]

someone was selling 80 watt solar panel's on ebay for £23.49

 

[Reallyretired]

someone was selling 80 watt solar panel's on ebay for £23.49

Ah but at least my £100 panels actually existed, and are now on my van.

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[darklord]

You are always well within your rights to protect others, whether its a solar panel that won't even charge your watch battery up, or a "plug in" engine destroyer,......would YOU want to be sold one?. You never know, one day......slippery con men may start packing their crap away as soon as they see someone wearing a MHF badge

 

[slobadoberbob]

stand at the side and keep saying....

Slightly, but only slightly, off topic...

What should a decent Funster do if he is there at a show and some slick salesman is spinning a load of deceitful spiel to an obvious newby couple about what the solar panels will do and how cheap his are etc etc...?

Should you mind your own business... dispute his "facts" there and then for the benefit of onlookers or wait until the conversation is over and take the couple to one side and tell them your thoughts?

JJ :Cool:

Stand at the side and keep saying Bullsh*t... Bullsh*t ...Bullsh*t .. he will soon get the message. I did that once at Newbury when a certain dealer was telling a couple that the RV he was trying to sell could do this silly mpg... he soon had a red face.. the couple then asked me why I had said that... simple I own one and have for the better part of 25 years and no way will it do 25 mile to the gallon.. on any type of fuel..even hot air.. which the salesman was full of...

bob:Sad:

 

[slobadoberbob]

they all want a bargain

someone was selling 80 watt solar panel's on ebay for £23.49

they all want a bargain Chris.. all they see is £ note signs and forget it is a rip off.

Bob

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[Xoxoc]

Slightly, but only slightly, off topic...

What should a decent Funster do if he is there at a show and some slick salesman is spinning a load of deceitful spiel to an obvious newby couple about what the solar panels will do and how cheap his are etc etc...?

Should you mind your own business... dispute his "facts" there and then for the benefit of onlookers or wait until the conversation is over and take the couple to one side and tell them your thoughts?

JJ :Cool:

Butt in, apologising as you do, and ask him leading questions that he will find hard to spin

(If it is so much more efficient to have it tracking the sun, why do 99% of solar installations on motorhomes have them installed flat to the roof?)

That sort of thing

 

[harryoxford2]

Slightly, but only slightly, off topic...

What should a decent Funster do if he is there at a show and some slick salesman is spinning a load of deceitful spiel to an obvious newby couple about what the solar panels will do and how cheap his are etc etc...?

Should you mind your own business... dispute his "facts" there and then for the benefit of onlookers or wait until the conversation is over and take the couple to one side and tell them your thoughts?

JJ :Cool:

I always politely butt in, Id tell em to go to the funsters site spend a tenner and speak to experts not salesmen. People who have tried and tested like u JJ.
My pet hate is very young salesmen and whilst I show compassion as they are feeling their feet in life with a job, it ticks me off when they advise you, believe they are right and yet have no experience at all.
Vodaphone operate a very effective blocking system. None of their managers in a shop have the autonomy to re-emburse or exchange a phone after 7 days and it tickles me when they make out it is their decision not to replace or refund. The decision was made by their superiors.

With Vodaphone you have to ring 191 to make a complaint and you have the old press button 1 2 or 3 selection. None of the selections refer to complaints at all. Eventually if you answer the Im leaving vodaphone you get put through to a nice chappy in Eygpt. Whatever happened to customer service..selling the right thing so the customers return......

There are some brilliant retailers, usually small businesses who are concerned about repeat business...but the big ones leave alot to be desired.

Right..moan over....on with the fun....

 

[slobadoberbob]

as Harry says

I always politely butt in, Id tell em to go to the funsters site spend a tenner and speak to experts not salesmen. People who have tried and tested like u JJ.
My pet hate is very young salesmen and whilst I show compassion as they are feeling their feet in life with a job, it ticks me off when they advise you, believe they are right and yet have no experience at all.
Vodaphone operate a very effective blocking system. None of their managers in a shop have the autonomy to re-emburse or exchange a phone after 7 days and it tickles me when they make out it is their decision not to replace or refund. The decision was made by their superiors.

With Vodaphone you have to ring 191 to make a complaint and you have the old press button 1 2 or 3 selection. None of the selections refer to complaints at all. Eventually if you answer the Im leaving vodaphone you get put through to a nice chappy in Eygpt. Whatever happened to customer service..selling the right thing so the customers return......

There are some brilliant retailers, usually small businesses who are concerned about repeat business...but the big ones leave alot to be desired.

Right..moan over....on with the fun....

As Harry says.... it is best to do your own research and not rely on people that make a wage from the sale (at any cost) ... I do not understand some people when they attend shows spending big bucks and do not take the time to know what they are looking for, or do not compare the spec v price v the people selling it... they will trust anything some sales men will say... just because he says so does not make it so.

I want to know more about an item so any sales man I deal with cannot back foot me.

Had this at the Apple store a couple weeks ago when I wanted to buy a 2 tb back up drive... he started off on a subject that he wished he had not.. soon made an excuse to get away from me... Plus by checking out the Apple site before I went I knew the store price was wrong.. that saved me £21.00 ... research and research.

Bob

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[eddie]

Or why not just tell people that solar panels are a waste of money full stop!

Excellent in the summer when you use no power whatsoever.

Marginally useful in the Autumn and the Spring

Useless in the Winter in the UK and most of Northern Europe

When I say this I do mean in real terms not this few watts nonsense!

Most people should just buy an additional battery and arrive with enough power for the duration of their stay, not hope to be able to make a little more once there!

I have the Alden Phenix self tracking system on my van that is on average FIVE times more efficient than a conventional flat panel as it is perpendicular to the sun five times longer. I guarantee that if I spent next weekend wild camping that I wouldn't be able to replicate the power benefit I will get from additional batteries!

Just a thought! As told to many over the last twenty odd years, when they are trying to buy a panel!

Eddie

 

[Gromett]

Eddie, Just a quick question. How does an 80 watt tracker compare to 3 flat mounted 80 watt panels over the normal camper season of March-Oct?

JJ and me are of a view that not only is it better value but you get more power overall. Can you confirm/refute this due to an actual side by side test?

I realise I am asking a salesman oh: but we can trust you :thumb:

 

[Reallyretired]

From the blurb provided by the makers of Alden Phoenix it will give up to four times as much as a flat panel in the early/late day but only twice as much in the middle of the day (as the flat panel is more effective as the sun is higher.

Note that you could buy 25 flat 80w panels for the price of one Alden Phoenix, so pound for pound the flat panels produce more power (if you've got room for 4-5 panels which would cost a fraction of the tracker cost you would be ahead on power produced.

That said Eddie has a point that in winter when you need the power most they are not really up to it, however if you only need EHU/genny for 3months of the year it must be better than needing it all year.

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[Gromett]

I know about the blurb. There have been debates on this subject going back years. Would be nice to have some real answers from someone who has actually run tests....

I have 3 x 80Watt flat panels which cost me £550 inc mppt regulator and all materials to fit them. I have been told on a number of occasions that a tracker would give me more power over a day.....

 

[pappajohn]

someone was selling 80 watt solar panel's on ebay for £23.49

you may mock Chris.......

mine came this morning :thumb:

 

[Techno]

My refund came this evening. Produced no watts wattso ever

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[Wildman]

most of the winter my van is static at the smallholding, the solar panels keep the batteries charged, I still use the TV for 3-4 hours a day whilst Sue takes the dogs for a walk, make coffee, cook etc the same as though we are away, never run out of power yet. One panel is vertical pointing more or less south and the other flat. Sept -April the vertical panel wins hands down in the summer little differance despite parking facing south most of the time. So a vertical mounted and/or tracking panel will work better when the sun is low in the sky end of story. Never needed hookup. I think solar are the best thing since sliced bread and wouldn't be without them.

 

[hilldweller]

Eddie, Just a quick question.

Good research done here:

Broken Link Removed

Some sums here:

Broken Link Removed

 

[Stephen & Jeannie]

Bullshit baffles brains !!! not mine though !

I was in Halfords (Shrewsbury) wanting to buy a tom tom, I was listening to a spotty yoof informing the customer in front of me that the system was developed during the war to guide the bombers back home !!! I asked him which satellite did they use !

I asked to see the manager, he was not impressed with the sales technique employed by the yoof !!

I still bought one though !!!

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[Techno]

Well that would have thrown the lad right off balance trying to recall 3 seperate satellites

 

[callumwa]

I was in Halfords (Shrewsbury) wanting to buy a tom tom, I was listening to a spotty yoof informing the customer in front of me that the system was developed during the war to guide the bombers back home !!! I asked him which satellite did they use !

I asked to see the manager, he was not impressed with the sales technique employed by the yoof !!

I still bought one though !!!

Satellite navigation was often used to help bombers back during the war.....:thumb:




















The satellite often used was the Moon.......

Callum......

 

[hilldweller]

I was in Halfords (Shrewsbury) wanting to buy a tom tom, I was listening to a spotty yoof informing the customer in front of me that the system was developed during the war to guide the bombers back home !!! I asked him which satellite did they use !

I asked to see the manager, he was not impressed with the sales technique employed by the yoof !!

I still bought one though !!!

The lad was sooooo close !
=============================
GEE

The British GEE system was developed during World War II. GEE used a series of transmitters sending out precisely timed signals, and the aircraft using GEE, RAF Bomber Command's heavy bombers, examined the time of arrival on an oscilloscope at the navigator's station. If the signal from two stations arrived at the same time, the aircraft must be an equal distance from both transmitters, allowing the navigator to determine a line of position on his chart of all the positions at that distance from both stations. By making similar measurements with other stations, additional lines of position can be produced, leading to a fix. GEE was accurate to about 165 yards (150 m) at short ranges, and up to a mile (1.6 km) at longer ranges over Germany. Used after WWII as late as the 1960s in the RAF (approx freq was by then 68 MHz).

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[eddie]

Eddie, Just a quick question. How does an 80 watt tracker compare to 3 flat mounted 80 watt panels over the normal camper season of March-Oct?

Done a comparison below.

JJ and me are of a view that not only is it better value but you get more power overall. Can you confirm/refute this due to an actual side by side test?

Better value to have more flat panels IF you have the roof space, but if space is limited or money is no object, the Phenix does look cool!

I realise I am asking a salesman oh: but we can trust you :thumb:

How do know what my Doctorate is?oh:

Just come into work and read this so popped outside to have a peek.

The Phenix displays Amps not watts so I have kept it that way

0.1 Amp as a flat panel, system down, turned off. Turned the Phenix (French spelling and product name) on, panel starts to rise, and it rotates looking for the brightest part of the sky. I watched it through 359 Deg as it makes it initial sweep.

0.1, 0.2, 0.3 (Amps) reached it's stop point and returned to face 0.03

The time is about 09.00 and the weather is about ten degrees, light overcast I would guess, and according to the forecast will remain that way. The arc of the sun means little to the Phenix as it can change trajectory and orientation.

So lets be generous and say that there will be seven hours of similar conditions. 7 x 0.3 = 2.1 amps produced from a system that costs £2500

Add an additional 125 Ah battery that is charged from the engine (even better with an enhanced charging system:thumb: BTW) allow for a 50% discharge cycle and work this one out:- 29.7 days extra using 2.1Amp

Two senarios! played out: And Action.

Eddie & Lyn are staying at a lovely CL down in Cornwall in the middle of June. We wake up with the windows open, the warm bright sunlight that is particular to Cornwall, making it a favourite of artists, is streaming in through the open windows and roof lights.

Making coffee wearing just a pair of shorts for them both Eddie takes the two mugs outside and joins Lyn at the table, where she is buttering toast.

After breakfast, grabbing a towels and sponge bags, they wander over to the shower block, crossing springy, spongy grass, warm to the touch, and being freshly cut, smelling of Summer. On their return, a quick change of clothes and their off out for the day, discovering the delights of Cornwall.

Early evening sees our intrepid campers returning to their motorhome, ready to BBQ the fish that they bought from the local fishing boats, some local cheese and two bottle of local wine, and some salad bought down the road, only requiring a contribution in the honestly box on the gate post.

The BBQ is soon on, and with the addition of a little ice in the wine, the fish is bubbling nicely, the salad washed off under the tap and all is well with the world.

The sun, eventually dips a toe into the Atlantic Ocean and quickly turns the sea into a fiery cauldron, and seems to melt before their eyes, into the Golden furnace of the sea.

It is about this time that Lyn suggests to Eddie that he should put a light on.

This actually is a good point, as this is probably the first power that has been used all day. On checking the display panel, "Battery" icon Eddie & Lyn get a satisfying, steady "GREEN" 100% charged. "The solar panels have worked well today darling" They murmur!

Well actually they may well have done, but of course tomorrow morning, when Eddie & Lyn get up, the batteries will still be charged, as they were when they arrived at the site in the first place

So precisely when solar panels work at their most efficient, our power usage is at it utmost low, so when people get all excited about their batteries being charged, they probably would be anyway. Lets look at Eddie & Lyn at the same CL in Winter:

"What a drive" Exclaimed Eddie, "We had the headlights, wipers and heater on flat out all the way"

"Well don't worry, were here now, parked up, lights on, TV on, heating on so we are as snug in a rug, as a bug! Do you fancy a beer?"

So the couple feel safe and warm in their motorhome, in the dark depths of Cornwall, They cook their evening meal, and after snuggle up on the settee watching their favourite programmes. When it is time for bed, Eddie wanders around the motorhome, turning off lights, turning down the heating and switches off the extractor fan that was on to get rid of the condensation from cooking and of course having heating on, and due to the really bad weather, no vents or windows open.

Come the morning, it is quickly decided that there is no way that they are traipsing across the muddy campsite to the toilet block which is bound to be muddy and cold "Didn't buy an expensive motorhome not to use it properly" is the general mumble.

Roof extractors running at full pelt, heating on full tilt, lights on as it is virtually dark outside (and it is still nearly nine O'clock!) "Lets put the TV on and see the weather forecast"

When ready to go out, the heating is left on low as it is so cold, but a brisk walk into Trevesco and a pub lunch beside the log fire beckons.

On their return at four O'clock the couple remark that it is dark already, and they're glad that they decided to fork out for a taxi.

Something seems wrong, the van is cold and silent, nothing appears to be working! Strange, it is as if the battery is flat...Oh yes it is

"But what about the solar panel?

Yes! What about the solar panel? Well frankly in February, in Cornwall, it is pretty much useless in that situation. In essence, we have little power requirements in the Summer and solar panels work very very well.

In the winter we have MASSIVE power requirements and solar doesn't stand a chance of supplying this. A few hours sunlight, the sun very low in the sky and a lot less sun that we would like.

Add to this that most charging setups from the split charge system are woefully inadequate to begin with, but then are further hampered by cab heating/blowers, headlights, wipers and things like heated screens mean that people arrive with a battery that isn't correctly charged, and then hope or assume that the power fairy will make sure that they are OK

I am not anti solar, I am anti "you must have a solar panel" and then people believing in ignorance that their power problems are over.

There are other solutions, it does depend where your travelling to, it does depend on the efficiency/quality of the panel.

Van Bitz import Phenix and no you can't have one as we stopped selling them last year as they are simply too expensive for what they provide, so this isn't an advert for them.

I would rather discuss with people what they want, where they're going and how they think that they willl achieve this rather than just flog them a panel.

If we loose a few sales, so be it, we have been around for twenty odd years, and those lost sales often come back to us, when they realise that we told the truth, after someone else lied to them and tucked them up.

So be nice to your customers!

Eddie

 

[Reallyretired]

Done a comparison below.



Eddie & Lyn are staying at a lovely CL down in Cornwall in the middle of June. We wake up with the windows open, the warm bright sunlight that is particular to Cornwall, making it a favourite of artists, is streaming in through the open windows and roof lights.

Making coffee [HI]wearing just a pair of shorts for them both[/HI] Eddie takes the two mugs outside and joins Lyn at the table, where she is buttering toast.


Eddie

The mind boggles at Eddie and Lyn wearing only one pair of shorts between them. Business must be bad.

Agree with most of your scenario but in our case; (Summer)

1. we wear a pair of shorts each
2. After shower in block or in van if not on a site, use hairdrier on inverter say 20Ah
3. Boil kettle for tea (second time) electric kettle to save gas 40Ah
4. Make toast 10Ah for two slices

Solar charge at 20A will replace this lot in 4-5 hours, but by then we will have made more tea/coffee. We could boil a kettle on the gas and do if needed but the advantage of the electric kettle is that it doesn't heat up the van so much. Hairdyer and toaster are electric only, though could use gas grill (not for hair drying)

In winter I will agree solar is pretty useless except it does keep the batteries charged in storage.

 

[eddie]

The mind boggles at Eddie and Lyn wearing only one pair of shorts between them. Business must be bad.

No this is a nudist site and I only wear shorts to avoid embarrassing the Welsh

Eddie

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