Solar Panel and electrical issues. (1 Viewer)

[yamyam]

Good morning campers from a wet but warm south west France. Having had good replies for previous questions I’ve decided to start a new thread to eliminate cross commenting. And as I mentioned before, after all this cr*p has finished and any campers are heading our way, mail me and we could meet up or give you a free overnight stay during your travels.
We have a Burstner 2007 T625 . Following problems with our leisure battery and what was thought to be parasitic discharge, the battery was changed for a new Exide AGM. Problems persisted with battery discharging what appeared quickly when not on EHU.
when on EHU and solar, on unplugging the EHU all power lost and control panel needed resetting. Disconnected the solar panel and checked across the terminals to find the input voltage was rapidly fluctuating fro 17v to 5v then 17v again . Shouldn’t this input remain constant? With solar disconnected, all problems seem to have resolved so wonder if the control box on solar requires attention. One further question please, no EHU or solar, should the battery discharge from 12.7v to 12.5v over 24 hours, what should battery voltage stay steady at if everything ok, and what voltage should the battery be recharged at please, before any damage can be done?

 

[Richard n Ann]

Disconnected the solar panel and checked across the terminals to find the input voltage was rapidly fluctuating fro 17v to 5v then 17v again

Did you disconnect the solar panel input from the controller or the battery? You're not supposed to disconnect it ftom the battery with the solar panel still connected to the controller. It can confuse the controller.

 

[yamyam]

Initially I just removed the fuse on the solar control panel, then later disconnected the terminals on the battery. It’s the surging of power I don’t understand too? Thanks very much for your reply, I’m at a loss.

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[Lenny HB]

Sounds like the solar regulator may be faulty, the output from the panels should be between 17 to 22v depends on sunshine & how much charge is going into the battery.
Try disconnecting the solar panels then disconnect the battery from the solar regular. Then reconnect the batteries and finally the panels, which may reset the regulator. Make sure you do it in that order.
If its all working the output from the regulator should gradually rise up to 14.7v (for AGM ) when the battery is charged then drop to around 13.8v, if the regulator has an absorption phase it will stay at 14.7 for a few hours.

12.7v down to 12.5v over 24 jours if no current is being drawn it should hardly drop, you need to measure any current being drawn as something maybe drawing current rather than the battery being faulty.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Initially I just removed the fuse on the solar control panel, then later disconnected the terminals on the battery. It’s the surging of power I don’t understand too? Thanks very much for your reply, I’m at a loss.

The microprocessor is probably looking for a battery voltage. Who knows how it's programed.

 

[yamyam]

Sounds like the solar regulator may be faulty, the output from the panels should be between 17 to 22v depends on sunshine & how much charge is going into the battery.
Try disconnecting the solar panels then disconnect the battery from the solar regular. Then reconnect the batteries and finally the panels, which may reset the regulator. Make sure you do it in that order.
If its all working the output from the regulator should gradually rise up to 14.7v (for AGM ) when the battery is charged then drop to around 13.8v, if the regulator has an absorption phase it will stay at 14.7 for a few hours.

12.7v down to 12.5v over 24 jours if no current is being drawn it should hardly drop, you need to measure any current being drawn as something maybe drawing current rather than the battery being faulty.

The fluctuating current was across the disconnected solar terminals Lenny so no charge going to battery. So. I remove the wires from the panel side of the controller, then the wires from the controller to the battery. Then reconnect in reverse order. Should I leave the fuse in place on the controller or remove it and replace last thing. Fairly obvious I’m a beginner to this!

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[John H.]

It can confuse the controller.

Depending on the make, it can do moore than that. Danger of death: to the controller, not you.

Some are OK. Some are not.

Follow Lenny's advice to see if it will reset.

 

[Richard n Ann]

The fluctuating current was across the disconnected solar terminals Lenny so no charge going to battery. So. I remove the wires from the panel side of the controller, then the wires from the controller to the battery. Then reconnect in reverse order. Should I leave the fuse in place on the controller or remove it and replace last thing. Fairly obvious I’m a beginner to this!

Leave the fuse in place as it will probably be on the battery circuit.

 

[Richard n Ann]

What controller is it?

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[yamyam]

Leave the fuse in place as it will probably be on the battery circuit.

The fuse is actually on the centre of the controller, and appears to be between inlet and outlet.

 

[yamyam]

What controller is it?

It’s a ALDEN 110

 

[yamyam]

It’s a ALDEN 110 and I’ve just checked current state of battery. It’s reading 12.8v across terminals but showing 12.5/6 v on theBurstner control panel having dropped 0.1 v over 24 hours, no solar and no EHU.

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[yamyam]

Sounds like the solar regulator may be faulty, the output from the panels should be between 17 to 22v depends on sunshine & how much charge is going into the battery.
Try disconnecting the solar panels then disconnect the battery from the solar regular. Then reconnect the batteries and finally the panels, which may reset the regulator. Make sure you do it in that order.
If its all working the output from the regulator should gradually rise up to 14.7v (for AGM ) when the battery is charged then drop to around 13.8v, if the regulator has an absorption phase it will stay at 14.7 for a few hours.

12.7v down to 12.5v over 24 jours if no current is being drawn it should hardly drop, you need to measure any current being drawn as something maybe drawing current rather than the battery being faulty.

I previously checked for leakage by removing each fuse in turn and checking with meter between negative battery terminal and negative cable. Is there a better way please Lenny.

 

[yamyam]

I previously checked for leakage by removing each fuse in turn and checking with meter between negative battery terminal and negative cable. Is there a better way please Lenny.

Oh, one other issue to ponder please. On EHU over the past few really hot days, I’ve noticed the fan on the Reich fuse main panel has been running virtually constantly. Is that usual please?

 

[GeoffnDee]

I believe yamyam is saying that he is getting a reading of between 17v and 5v from the panel before it goes to the controller which I do not think is correct for it to alter like that and should it not be a stable voltage ? (if I have read it correctly)

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[Raul]

Leave the solar controller connected to the battery, at least 5mins before you re connect the solar cables. In the meantime, measure the voltage on the solar cables that’s coming from the panel. You should get a steady 17-22v or there abouts, but definitely not fluctuating. Make sure your multimeter is set for Volts DC, to measure correct. If is on AC setting will give fluctuating reading. If this reading fluctuates on DC volts, then your panel or diodes in the panel box it’s gone. If diode is gone, at night the panel becomes a load.

 

[Lenny HB]

I previously checked for leakage by removing each fuse in turn and checking with meter between negative battery terminal and negative cable. Is there a better way please Lenny.

I use a meter that has a DC current clamp feature you can just put the clamp around a cable to measure the current.
Amazon product ASIN B00O1Q2HOQ

Oh, one other issue to ponder please. On EHU over the past few really hot days, I’ve noticed the fan on the Reich fuse main panel has been running virtually constantly. Is that usual please?

I'm not familiar with the Reich unit but if the battery is charged and not much current being used I wouldn't expect the fan to run, unless it gets very hot where it is fitted.

 

[Lenny HB]

If diode is gone, at night the panel becomes a load.

The regulator should have blocking diodes unless it is very old.

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[yamyam]

I believe yamyam is saying that he is getting a reading of between 17v and 5v from the panel before it goes to the controller which I do not think is correct for it to alter like that and should it not be a stable voltage ? (if I have read it correctly)

Actually it’s the fluctuating voltage after the controller TO the battery.

 

[yamyam]

The regulator should have blocking diodes unless it is very old.

2007 ?

 

[Lenny HB]

2007 ?

Should have them.

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[Lenny HB]

Actually it’s the fluctuating voltage after the controller TO the battery.

That sounds like the regulator is faulty but I can't see it pulling the battery voltage down to 5v without going up in smoke.

 

[VXman]

One further question please, no EHU or solar, should the battery discharge from 12.7v to 12.5v over 24 hours, what should battery voltage stay steady at if everything ok, and what voltage should the battery be recharged at please, before any damage can be done?

According to this chart from AGM batteries 12.7-12.5 would equate to 10% which seems reasonable depending on how much use it has had.

Generally it is suggested you do not go below 50% charge which is roughly 12V.

Mine was at 21.2V after 10 days standing - no EHU and no use.

Interesting read from where that chart came:

AGM battery Depth of Discharge myth busted

I have been wondering for some time if the "don't discharge your batteries beyond 50%" rule really applies to AGM batteries. AGM batteries claim to be deep discharge, and 50% discharge doesn't seem very deep to me! So I did a little research...

tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com

 

[yamyam]

That sounds like the regulator is faulty but I can't see it pulling the battery voltage down to 5v without going up in smoke.

Ok, I think I’ve confused people and for that I apologise. I’ll try again. I’ve just re checked. The solar controller to battery wires were already disconnected. Replaced central fuse in controller. Checked voltage solar panel to controller, steady 18 v. Checked wires controller to battery( disconnected) , 17.5v down to 5.1v and return, fluctuating by the second. Battery holding at 12.8v on meter, but 12.6v on Burstner read out .

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[Richard n Ann]

17.5v down to 5.1v and return, fluctuating by the second

Doesn't tell us anything as we don't know how the solar controller has been programed. As I said before it's expecting to have a battery connected and it's probably looking for one

 

[Raul]

Ok, I think I’ve confused people and for that I apologise. I’ll try again. I’ve just re checked. The solar controller to battery wires were already disconnected. Replaced central fuse in controller. Checked voltage solar panel to controller, steady 18 v. Checked wires controller to battery( disconnected) , 17.5v down to 5.1v and return, fluctuating by the second. Battery holding at 12.8v on meter, but 12.6v on Burstner read out .

We keep telling you, the controller should NOT be disconnected from the battery at all. If panel is connected to controler and you take a reading at the controller where it’s suppose to go to the battery, it’s normal to see fluctuation. The controller with the solar connected it’s got nowhere to dump the power, it keep hunting for a battery voltage, which is missing.
connect the controller to battery, then take a reading at battery end of controller.

 

[Raul]

The regulator should have blocking diodes unless it is very old.

Should, and should be functional. But, if you keep disconnecting the battery with the solar still attached, that can, and it does go south.

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[yamyam]

Please everyone accept my apologies. I will connect all, in the sequence you have indicated and check back. Sorry everyone, must take my medicine!

 

[yamyam]

According to this chart from AGM batteries 12.7-12.5 would equate to 10% which seems reasonable depending on how much use it has had.

Generally it is suggested you do not go below 50% charge which is roughly 12V.

Mine was at 21.2V after 10 days standing - no EHU and no use.

View attachment 507897

Interesting read from where that chart came:

AGM battery Depth of Discharge myth busted

I have been wondering for some time if the "don't discharge your batteries beyond 50%" rule really applies to AGM batteries. AGM batteries claim to be deep discharge, and 50% discharge doesn't seem very deep to me! So I did a little research...

tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com

Should that be 12.2volts?

According to this chart from AGM batteries 12.7-12.5 would equate to 10% which seems reasonable depending on how much use it has had.

Generally it is suggested you do not go below 50% charge which is roughly 12V.

Mine was at 21.2V after 10 days standing - no EHU and no use.

View attachment 507897

Interesting read from where that chart came:

AGM battery Depth of Discharge myth busted

I have been wondering for some time if the "don't discharge your batteries beyond 50%" rule really applies to AGM batteries. AGM batteries claim to be deep discharge, and 50% discharge doesn't seem very deep to me! So I did a little research...

tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com

 

[yamyam]

Reconnected solar controller and panel in the order suggested. Battery began charging immediately and reached 13.7v. Just checked in darkness and battery now 13v and controller has flashing light saying ‘attente’ which I assume is saying ‘on hold’ Will check voltage tomorrow first thing. If the diode has gone, given what RAUL mentioned about the panel becoming a load in darkness, it will be apparent tomorrow. Just hope it doesn’t pull off too much to fall below 50%.