Solar and new battery upgrade HELP!, specialist advice needed for Schaudt EBL220 system

[82125]

So i thought i could just walk in to the local solar installation place and get another solar panel, charge controller and 2 new bigger AGM batteries fitted..

Apparently not. On my Burstner Elegance i890 it has the Schaudt EBL220 -2 (link below)
EBL220 manual

Everything, including the solar charging, goes through this unit. Everything is done by this unit including all the charging whether from 230v, alternator or solar, and the maximum solar charge it will allow is just 14amp (fused at 15amps), I was planning to add an extra solar panel (200w), a 30a Victron controller and upgrade my 2 lead acid varta 90ah batteries to 2 150ah AGMs.

The EBL doesnt allow AGM's either, it says wet lead acid or dry batteries only. (selector switch only has 2 positions, presumably reducing the charge when set to gel).

So it seems i cant have AGM's, cant put a decent amperage solar controller in (to run the existing 150w+ and a new 200w solar panel), and then the next problem this causes is "the 10% rule of thumb" having a charging system capable of actually charging the available battery capacity.
If i put 2 x 150amp batteries in I would need the 30amp Victron controller in order to maintain the 10% rule (but the EBL has a max of 14amps which i read as meaning i shouldnt upgrade my batteries must past 140ah combined). Or am i confusing amp hours with amps here??!

I guess i could fit a 10amp charge controller (do they even make 14amp controllers that my EBL maxs out at?), but that would make it a bit pointless fitting an extra 200w panel if my EBL can only put 14amp max in to the batteries?

Its all got very confusing, can anyone help please? or know where i can go that specialises in these Schaudt EBL systems and can fit the upgrades Im looking for?

Thanks.

 

[I2C]

First, you don’t need to go through the EBL, connect from the controller direct to the battery(s), that’s what I did. Second, it’s suggested that you match the panels for output, 150w + 200w won’t give you 350w. Advice on MHF is not to use AGMs so no loss there.

 

[Stealaway]

I kept the two systems separate. I didn't want to damage the ELB as they are so expensive, even to repair

 

[82125]

thanks I2C,
Originally the place im going to get the installation thought i wanted the new solar panel to only charge the leisure batteries and were going to wire it accordingly (id asked that it links with the existing panel and charges both engine and leisure combining both panels), but what youve said could work in that case.

I could just fit 2 new big lead acid batteries and have the new 200w solar panel charge only them (but then the existing 150w panel will be charging the engine and leisure batteries via the EBL, wouldnt that cause a problem? Two panels both potentially charging the leisure batteries on different systems?)

p.s, im saying the existing panel is 150w but its a complete guess, it could be higher given the size of it but i have no way of telling. Image attached.

 

[autorouter]

You're right, the EBL is not really designed for a lot of panels and a big solar controller, or AGMs. However there are workarounds. I'd say it's best to route the solar stuff direct to the batteries, not through the EBL. You can get a suitable solar controller, with all the required charging profiles you need. The only downside of that is the solar power doesn't get routed through the EBL internal shunt, so is not accounted for in the amp-hour display. Not all EBLs have the amp-hour display anyway.

It's the same with the mains charger. You can disable the internal mains charger by pulling the 20A fuse labelled 'Int Lademodul'. Then wire a nice big charger, maybe 30A as you say, direct to the batteries. If it's 30A you could in fact wire it into the auxiliary charger terminals, doubled up so that you use both sockets. The ones labelled 'Zus. Lade 1' and 'Zus. Lade 2'. The sockets will take more than 14A (they are fused at 25A) but for 30A it's probably better to double them up. Also the Lead-acid/Gel selector switch only applies to the internal mains charger, not the auxiliary charger(s). If you get a charger with suitable selectable profiles it will be fine.

Another thing is charging from the alternator. The amps won't change much if you are going through the split charge relay. It won't fully charge either AGM or Gel, but that doesn't matter much if you have plenty of solar with a good controller. You may decide in the future to go for a B2B charger to boost the charge rate. Then you'd have to find a way to disable/bypass the split charge relay. There are ways to do this, when the time comes.

I think others on here have stronger views about AGMs than I have, and no doubt they will let you know about them

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[autorouter]

I could just fit 2 new big lead acid batteries and have the new 200w solar panel charge only them (but then the existing 150w panel will be charging the engine and leisure batteries via the EBL, wouldnt that cause a problem? Two panels both potentially charging the leisure batteries on different systems?)

It's not unusual to have two (or more) solar controllers. They have diodes to prevent unwanted back-feeding, so usually work together nicely. The starter battery won't need much in the way of solar charge - it's usually fully charged when you arrive at a site or home, so just needs trickle charging.

 

[Lenny HB]

AGM are a waste of time as leisure batteries, they won't last very long.

Your EBL has setting for flooded cells (standard lead acid) & Gel. The Varta LDF's you have are fairly good battery if you wanted a bit more capacity you could fit a couple of 80ah Gels they will give you more useable power as you can discharge to 20 % DOD and still get a long life, of you could fit larger Gels if you have space but they do start to get expensive.

Shault always recommend fitting an auxiliary charger when increasing the battery bank however if most of your charging is done by solar and you are not regularly charging flat batteries from the mains the basic charger will be OK.

Fairly safe to run up to a max 20amps of solar through the EBL just change the fuse, the limiting factor is the connectors. The connections go direct to the batteries via the internal shunt.
If you don't have a display that shows amps no advantage in wiring via the EBL apart from ease of wiring.

If you fit a Victron solar regulator you will need to fit a Battery master or CBE CS2 relay to keep the starter battery topped up.
A good alternative are the Votronic MPP duo range they have a 1 amp output for the starter battery.

 

[82125]

thank you autorouter and Lenny.

From the sound of it then, I can just go ahead with what the installer suggested, which was to fit the 200w panel with a victron 10a controller direct to the leisure batts. i dont have amp hour display from my EBL so no problem there (and the Victron will give me that info via bluetooth to my phone which is nice). I'll stick with new bigger AH lead acid batteries over gel (im not expecting to be deep cycling as my main power drain is my laptop).

The other existing panel i have can be left alone to charge the engine battery and leisure via the EBL (although it not currently working but thats another story for a separate thread i think!)

I'll stick with the internal mains charger for now and see how it copes with larger batteries (id like to fit 2 150ah lead acid instead of the 90's currently fitted but as i say im not expecting to be pulling the batteries down low once theyre fed by solar).

Thank you both again!

 

[Lenny HB]

If fitting a second regulator it is best to fit 2 of the same type that use the same charging profiles i.e. 2 x Victron or 2 x Votronic.

 

[ED O'DARAC]

Hi, I would use the Schaudt MPP 1218 Solar regulator module as it simply plugs directly into, and integrates with, your EBL distribution unit. This will give upto 20A and it is intelligent/MPPT/splits charge to starter and leisure batteries.
The clincher for me is that it will also register with your existing meters above the door (also made by Schaudt).
It is all totally plug and play, and it comes with the correct connectors.
I have always used Schaudt in Hymer Group solar installations as it is so simple and it never gives any trouble.

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[Bessy765]

Our 2019 Burstner Iexo bought new came with 1, 95 amp AGM. I fitted a second identical one. On the rotary dial turn to leisure battery voltage, press once gives amps in/out second click give % of charge. If you press and hold the control knob in ti will then change to how many amps battery you have. By turning clockwise it went up to 190 which is the capacity I now have. The excisitng charger is rated to 18 amps. And the solar controller rated at 10 amps (100 watt panel) that came with the van. Fitted a Victron 30 amp charger that I had spare from my previous van direct to the batteries. Only problem when using it the percentage of charge goes down. I only use that charger when at a show etc where the running of generators is allowed to top up the batteries quicker.
have had problems from the start with when on hook up the % of charge goes up to 100% then starts dropping whilst still on hook up and will not rise unless I remove the two fuses by the L batteries wait a couple of mins then put them back in.

 

[82125]

thanks, id rather, if possible completely avoid integrating with the existing meters / EBL, which seem inaccurate or very vague at best.
Ive since had separate digital volt meters fitted to both battery banks so i can actually tell what theyre doing. Once I get something like a Victron, Voltronic or B2B installed they will give me even more information.

 

[82125]

Our 2019 Burstner Iexo bought new came with 1, 95 amp AGM. I fitted a second identical one. On the rotary dial turn to leisure battery voltage, press once gives amps in/out second click give % of charge. If you press and hold the control knob in ti will then change to how many amps battery you have. By turning clockwise it went up to 190 which is the capacity I now have. The excisitng charger is rated to 18 amps. And the solar controller rated at 10 amps (100 watt panel) that came with the van. Fitted a Victron 30 amp charger that I had spare from my previous van direct to the batteries. Only problem when using it the percentage of charge goes down. I only use that charger when at a show etc where the running of generators is allowed to top up the batteries quicker.
have had problems from the start with when on hook up the % of charge goes up to 100% then starts dropping whilst still on hook up and will not rise unless I remove the two fuses by the L batteries wait a couple of mins then put them back in.

Hi, sounds like you have a different system to me but thank you.