"Snoopers Charter" OR "National Security"? (1 Viewer)

[Badknee]

What really pisses me off is all the money they are going to spend on this. ......... Be a damn sight cheaper to get The Sun to do it again.

Just sayin.

 

[GJH]

Use. Once analysed, how can we be sure that 'our' information will not be sold to interested parties... DVLA anyone?
Or other departments or councils using this information inappropriately or in a way which was never intended...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...se-anti-terror-laws-to-spy-on-bin-crimes.html

That Telegraph article is a load of round objects.
RIPA was not "introduced to help the police fight terrorism and crime in 2000", it was introduced to overcome the blocks on legitimate investigation created by the mess that is the HRA.
It is only a restricted part of RIPA which refers to investigations by local authorities, investigations which are completely legitimate.
I notice that the only actual case they quote of misuse is the Poole one - an error that was condemned by those of us in the game as well as everyone else when it happened.

As regards sale of information by the DVLA, what information do they sell that they should not?

 

[sdc77]

Would you all be so ok with it , if they were listening in to your phone calls or opening your mail, don't see any difference and will probably be the next step.

I would have a problem with those things yes. But luckily I'm not a terrorist so it's not going to happen is it. They have been monitoring mobile phone calls for years. Again as terrorism isn't some thing I'm planning to use my motorhome for this year I can't see them wasting any time singling me out for special observation.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Badknee]

I realise that there are more cctv cameras here that anywhere else but it doesn't worry me, ANRP cameras don't either. If I was trying to do something wrong, had something to hide they might but hey ho.

 

[Langtoftlad]

That Telegraph article is a load of round objects.

In your opinion...

As regards sale of information by the DVLA, what information do they sell that they should not?

It may be legal - but it's immoral imho to sell registration data properly gathered by government to private commercial organisations.

...which in a nutshell is my objection to governments being given even more power to collect even more data on it's citizens under the 'catch all' guise of "security".

 

[32143]

No problem with it at all.
Law abiding citizens nothing to worry about, even the non law abiding citizens in most respects won't need to worry.

Keeping our country safe from terrorists, priceless.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

In your opinion...

Professional opinion, with inside knowledge.

It may be legal - but it's immoral imho to sell registration data properly gathered by government to private commercial organisations.

...which in a nutshell is my objection to governments being given even more power to collect even more data on it's citizens under the 'catch all' guise of "security".

What registration data? Who sells it improperly?

 

[Langtoftlad]

What registration data? Who sells it improperly?

Not technically improperly perhaps but, in my view, immorally.

 

[GJH]

Not technically improperly perhaps but, in my view, immorally.

What registration data is sold in any way immorally?
Any registration data released to a third party by the DVLA are released perfectly legally and in circumstances which the providers of those data have agreed to. A fee is charges so that it is the recipient who pays not the taxpayer.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Autowbars]

I can not see how it can work this snooping thing.
You could view websites via a wifi connection any place in the world, that is not thro your ISP
You could go to an internet cafe, if you can find one these days,
You could use a pay as you go phone, or its sim in an Ipad,
Maybe even use a VPN like I do out of the UK to use I Player, its makes the computer
act as if the UK
Use satellite internet.

or maybe somebody knows better

 

[Langtoftlad]

If you don't get what I'm getting at by now, [but I'm sure you do ]there's no point in repeating myself.
You think it's right & proper for a government agency to sell your private data to a commercial business.
I don't [legal yes, moral no]

 

[GJH]

If you don't get what I'm getting at by now, [but I'm sure you do ]there's no point in repeating myself.
You think it's right & proper for a government agency to sell your private data to a commercial business.
I don't [legal yes, moral no]

What private data? When we provide registration data to DVLA we agree that it can be released in the proper circumstances provided by law. The whole point is that the data are not private in those circumstances.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

I can not see how it can work this snooping thing.
You could view websites via a wifi connection any place in the world, that is not thro your ISP
You could go to an internet cafe, if you can find one these days,
You could use a pay as you go phone, or its sim in an Ipad,
Maybe even use a VPN like I do out of the UK to use I Player, its makes the computer
act as if the UK
Use satellite internet.

or maybe somebody knows better

Yes, you could do that. It is no different, really, from people having clandestine meetings in the middle of the night. No doubt if all criminals acted in that manner it would make the job of law enforcers harder.
As we see all the time, though, people are arrested and prosecuted because they do not act in that sort of manner. The people who the intelligence agencies are after are no different, some are careful and some are careless. That is no reason, though, to prevent those agencies from using tools which make catching the careless easier.

 

[Allanm]

No problem from me either. If you have nothing to hide what's the problem?

I used to believe that, once.....

 

[Paddywack]

The daft thing about this is the only folks affected are law abiding citizens. Terrorists and criminals long ago moved to the dark web and using burn phones so will remain unmonitored.

And all those saying you have nowt to hide, just remember this data will be held by telecoms companies on HMG behalf - Talk Talk hack anyone?

And finally ask yourself why at the time they are seeking greater scrutiny of our behaviour they are trying to shut down FOI requests - you know the law that allowed us to find out about their wrongdoings and expenses claims etc?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[rangi]

I have not got a problem with it

 

[GJH]

The daft thing about this is the only folks affected are law abiding citizens. Terrorists and criminals long ago moved to the dark web and using burn phones so will remain unmonitored.

Just like Broken Link Removed perhaps? Or this one?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

moved to the dark web

It's not that hard to access if you're really that worried.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Paddywack]

Just like Broken Link Removed perhaps? Or this one?

Neither of which are "proper" terrorists - both not using the dark web to hide their behaviour, a couple of wannabes.

 

[Chris]

As long as it's limited to national security or security of our people or armed services I don't have a problem with it.

Beyond that I do have a big problem with it.

 

[Paddywack]

It's not that hard to access if you're really that worried.

I know - its how I get me smokes!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I know - its how I get me smokes!

I bet the price has gone up since they shut Silk Road down.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I know - its how I get me smokes!

Don't tell 'em Pike - you're now on the list!

 

[Red Dragon]

Well I think its more intrusion by the Government,as for its the LAW,well they just change it to suit there needs.
My needs are to be able to converse in peace on the phone or via internet with whom I feel the need,not have some paranoid Government eaves dropping and poking around.
If these so called intelligent elite had done there job properly in the first place,there would be no need for this Snoopers Charter.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Paddywack]

I bet the price has gone up since they shut Silk Road down.

And the worry is that with everyone moving to Tor to avoid the snoopers, especially the dodgepots on MHF wanting to mask this dubious pastime, the servers will slow to a crawl.

 

[appydaze]

What l think most of us are forgetting is that we are at war and if these measures are necessary then so be it............

 

[DanielFord]

I am not sure where I stand with the bill. On one hand I am very against it, since it legitimises going through the data of people who are entirely innocent, and we should have the right to lead a private life.
That said, within a matter of minutes, I could probably produce a 5 generation family tree, and a lot of personal information for any person who uses the internet and posts to forums/social media within about 10 minutes, using only a photo that has been posted online!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Paddywack]

What l think most of us are forgetting is that we are at war and if these measures are necessary then so be it............

So is this the war against the forces of capitalism and big business?

 

[GJH]

Well I think its more intrusion by the Government,as for its the LAW,well they just change it to suit there needs.
My needs are to be able to converse in peace on the phone or via internet with whom I feel the need,not have some paranoid Government eaves dropping and poking around.
If these so called intelligent elite had done there job properly in the first place,there would be no need for this Snoopers Charter.

Thing is though, Steve, is that it isn't more intrusion, just the same level as from since well before you and I were born but not being prevented from obtaining Internet based data.
Nobody is going to eavesdrop or poke around in the records of the vast majority of us. They will simply follow leads as they traditionally have done.

 

[GJH]

it legitimises going through the data of people who are entirely innocent

The only time data relating to individuals will be gone through is when there is intelligence which arouses suspicion about them. That's what happens already, and always has done, with information stored by other means.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}