Smart motorway disaster area

[MR. FUSION]

M6 southbound near Stoke on Trent, most likely dead or dying people in an overturned car on the smart motorway. Because people have decamped from their vehicles on all carriageways the doctor, fire engine, fire chief and various other emergency vehicles are gridlocked back in the extensive traffic jam. There needs to be a major rethink of this system, all these personnel are now stuck in traffic for hours and out of circulation.....good luck to the injured parties, to bad you picked on a smart motorway to have a smash

 

[angusboy]

We were on it last week disaster waiting to happen.hope they are ok

 

[pappajohn]

If a smart motorway is provided a smart helicopter should also be provided for the emergency services.
Totally ridiculous not having a hard shoulder for access and all those that stop to rubberneck should be jailed for 48 hours.

 

[ymfb]

Generally there’s nothing wrong with smart motorways, just selfish drivers who don’t follow the signs. I use one every week.

Hope those effected make a quick full recovery

 

[DBK]

In Germany motorists are required by law to make a lane for emergency vehicles. They do this by the vehicles in the outside lane pulling over as far to the right as possible and the inside lane doing the opposite, pulling to the left.

It would never work here!

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[Richard n Ann]

If a smart motorway is provided a smart helicopter should also be provided for the emergency services.
Totally ridiculous not having a hard shoulder for access and all those that stop to rubberneck should be jailed for 48 hours.

I always think I've patiently waited my turn, so I'll have a bloody good look when I get to the front... Hell I'll even get me sandwiches out

 

[MikeD]

They have had a few on our local "smart" motorway - blinking death traps I think.

 

[pappajohn]

I always have a moan because we have 50 odd miles before we get to any motorway when going far from home.
I'm beginning to think it's not that bad.

 

[Spriddler]

In Germany motorists are required by law to make a lane for emergency vehicles. They do this by the vehicles in the outside lane pulling over as far to the right as possible and the inside lane doing the opposite, pulling to the left.

It would never work here!

I can't see how that works in Germany either as wouldn't the two lines of vehicles end up alongside each other down the centre of the autobahn.......? Surely it would be better if both lines moved over as far as poss to the left? Or am having a senior moment?

 

[Silver-Fox]

In Germany motorists are required by law to make a lane for emergency vehicles. They do this by the vehicles in the outside lane pulling over as far to the right as possible and the inside lane doing the opposite, pulling to the left.

It would never work here!

Unfortunatley some drivers over here can't even understand use the lane to the left unless overtaking.
Come to it many don't even understand how to use a roundabout.

Expecting them to effectively make another lane clear would be asking too much.

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[Kingham]

I can't see how that works in Germany either as wouldn't the two lines of vehicles end up alongside each other down the centre of the autobahn.......? Surely it would be better if both lines moved over as far as poss to the left? Or am having a senior moment?

Most multi-lane carriageways are wide enough to allow vehicles in each lane to move the extremities of those lanes, effectively creating a centre channel that emergency crews can use. I believe @DBK is referring to this being law, when traffic comes to a standstill in some countries, whereas in the UK, the emergency services are delayed as they have to slow down and encourage traffic to move and create that channel.
It was always nice to see the switched on and attentive drivers that spotted you in their mirrors and opened a channel up well before you reached them. It made for much more efficient progress to urgent incidents.
I can’t see that emergency crews will ever be stuck for hours in tailbacks on ‘smart’ motorways, as they’ll always be able to create a channel to drive through. I do agree that having a ready made channel, as in a hard shoulder, is better for progress, but those rare occasions have to be considered against the free flowing traffic at all other times.

 

[WESTY66]

I can't see how that works in Germany either as wouldn't the two lines of vehicles end up alongside each other down the centre of the autobahn.......? Surely it would be better if both lines moved over as far as poss to the left? Or am having a senior moment?

@DBK is correct, the system works very well in Germany, they also exaggerate pulling over for motorcycles too in the event of slow moving traffic, so much so even trikes can get through.

 

[Spriddler]

Most multi-lane carriageways are wide enough to allow vehicles in each lane to move the extremities of those lanes, effectively creating a centre channel that emergency crews can use. .

Yes, I can see that, but in DBK's post the empty two lanes would be the outside (left) lane and the inside (right) lane. Why leave the outside (left) lane empty when emergency vehicles can't get into (or out of) it due two the two lines of vehicles stopped in the centre of the autobahn? It would make more sense if all vehicles pulled over as far as possible to their left.

 

[ymfb]

Drivers in Germany show considerable respect to each other, that includes HGVs who don’t hold up other drivers by overtaking at 1 kmh more than the other HGV.

 

[Phill D]

think you ma have missread @DBK post. one pulls right the other lane pulls left leaving a gap down the middle.

it works real well. i have done that in the UK only to have the prat behind overtake and fill the gap.

its almost atomatic from drivers in Germany in such circumstances.

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[MR. FUSION]

Most multi-lane carriageways are wide enough to allow vehicles in each lane to move the extremities of those lanes, effectively creating a centre channel that emergency crews can use. I believe @DBK is referring to this being law, when traffic comes to a standstill in some countries, whereas in the UK, the emergency services are delayed as they have to slow down and encourage traffic to move and create that channel.
It was always nice to see the switched on and attentive drivers that spotted you in their mirrors and opened a channel up well before you reached them. It made for much more efficient progress to urgent incidents.
I can’t see that emergency crews will ever be stuck for hours in tailbacks on ‘smart’ motorways, as they’ll always be able to create a channel to drive through. I do agree that having a ready made channel, as in a hard shoulder, is better for progress, but those rare occasions have to be considered against the free flowing traffic at all other times.

I have probably got some dashcam footage of the emergency vehicles stuck in the tailback, I will post the reality for you.

 

[Funnymunny]

Absolutely crazy idea, smart motorways are a disaster waiting to happen. Whoever thought up the idea should be put in the position these unfortunate people are in now and see what its like. If every lane is blocked then nothing can get to them, crazy

 

[hilldweller]

Or am having a senior moment?

Maybe - in all cases the width of the road is the same.

And two rows touching each other could trap one row in their vehicle should it all catch fire.

 

[Kingham]

Yes, I can see that, but in DBK's post the empty two lanes would be the outside (left) lane and the inside (right) lane. Why leave the outside (left) lane empty when emergency vehicles can't get into (or out of) it due two the two lines of vehicles stopped in the centre of the autobahn? It would make more sense if all vehicles pulled over as far as possible to their left.

Possibly forgot that the Germans drive on the opposite side of the road ?

 

[Kingham]

I have probably got some dashcam footage of the emergency vehicles stuck in the tailback, I will post the reality for you.

Please do, I’m genuinely interested !

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[Rudski01]

As I’m in Germany at the minute I’ll pass on my understanding, a lot of the fast roads are dual lane, when I was stuck in jams last week the right hand lane moved over to the right, the left to the left leaving a gap up the middle for bikes and emergency services if required, although there was still the use of the hard shoulder if near a junction to exit by motorists
Regarding smart motorways I thought the idea was if a bad accident occurred the signs closed off the lanes required, if a heli is required they will sort that down stream of the accident any way.
Agree with all regarding driving in Germany everyone moves over after an overtake, some r s holes drivers in the uk feel its a great wind up to sit in the fast or middle lane, and it gets my back up every time. Either it’s a lack of education or enforcement of driving rules, but whatever, it’s not an issue to be going faster than the person in front and they move out of the way in Europe, in England it becomes a road rage issue and Tom and Jerry chase.
Happy motoring

Well at least for the next two weeks in Germany

Cheers
Mark

 

[Spriddler]

think you ma have missread @DBK post. one pulls right the other lane pulls left leaving a gap down the middle.

Au contraire........
My notations added in the brackets just to be clear........

In Germany motorists are required by law to make a lane for emergency vehicles. They do this by the vehicles in the outside lane (i.e the left, 'overtaking' lane) pulling over as far to the right as possible and the inside lane (i.e. the right 'slow' entry and exit lane) doing the opposite, pulling to the left.

This would create two lines of traffic in the centre of the autobahn, NOT a gap down the middle!
@Kingham I certainly realise they drive on the right for as well as touring abroad for 40+ years I commuted daily on autobahnen between Cologne and Dusseldorf for nearly 3 years and never saw what DBK described.

 

[Gellyneck]

Because they drive on the right in Germany the "fast - outside" lane is on the left and the "slow - inside" lane is on the right. So, fast lane pulls over to left and slow lane pulls over to right thereby creating a "third" lane down the middle.

 

[Rudski01]

Because they drive on the right in Germany the "fast - outside" lane is on the left and the "slow - inside" lane is on the right. So, fast lane pulls over to left and slow lane pulls over to right thereby creating a "third" lane down the middle.

Yep just what I witnessed two days ago

 

[gus-lopez]

Au contraire........
My notations added in the brackets just to be clear........



This would create two lines of traffic in the centre of the autobahn, NOT a gap down the middle!
@Kingham I certainly realise they drive on the right for as well as touring abroad for 40+ years I commuted daily on autobahnen between Cologne and Dusseldorf for nearly 3 years and never saw what DBK described.

He just got the directions mixed up. he meant left lane goes left right lane goes right as @Rudski01 confimed.

Regarding smart motorways I thought the idea was if a bad accident occurred the signs closed off the lanes required,

& tell me how often the big red 'X' has been taken notice of by the half -wits in the UK before ? I've never seen many move out of a lane until on the point of crashing . whoever thought that was going to work should be disembowelled

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[Rudski01]

He just got the directions mixed up. he meant left lane goes left right lane goes right as @Rudski01 confimed.

& tell me how often the big red 'X' has been taken notice of by the half -wits in the UK before ? I've never seen many move out of a lane until on the point of crashing . whoever thought that was going to work should be disembowelled

 

[Spriddler]

Because they drive on the right in Germany the "fast - outside" lane is on the left and the "slow - inside" lane is on the right. So, fast lane pulls over to left and slow lane pulls over to right thereby creating a "third" lane down the middle.

He just got the directions mixed up. he meant left lane goes left right lane goes right as @Rudski01 confimed.

Thank you, chaps. At last, precisely my point, but it has been hard work getting it across .
I was only pointing out that DBK had his right and lefts muddled .......

In Germany motorists are required by law to make a lane for emergency vehicles. They do this by the vehicles in the outside lane pulling over as far to the right as possible and the inside lane doing the opposite, pulling to the left.

It would never work here!

 

[DBK]

The middle lane is generally only made if emergency vehicles are trying to get through. With a normal rush hour queue nothing happens.

German traffic law is very different to the UK and indeed most of the rest of Europe. They don't really allow judgement, everything is prescribed by law which defines what you must do in almost every possible set of circumstances. I suspect few UK visitors know this - as Michael Caine might have said. I only know it from living there and having to take a German traffic law exam. This was a long time ago but I doubt the laws have changed much.

 

[Rudski01]

Yep right, read said post, right in what I said but original post arse about tit or left lane to right lane.

Sorry us guys up north who don’t have these posh smart m ways automatically move where ever we need to be, hence no smart motorways north of Stafford

 

[Kingham]

Thank you, chaps. At last, precisely my point, but it has been hard work getting it across .
I was only pointing out that DBK had his right and lefts muddled .......

I got it and that was the point I was making in post #19, I wasn’t suggesting you didn’t know the Germans drove on the opposite side of the road to us

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