Small Motorhome Discrimination? (1 Viewer)

[Jim]

I received an email this morning from a Mr Scaife. I wonder if anyone would like to comment on it.

Message Body:
Many members with small motorhomes are not aware that they are being discriminated against when it comes to paying road tax. Currently motorhomes weighing less than 3500 kg are classified as private light vehicles by the dvla and taxed at £245. Larger vehicles are termed heavy goods vehicles and are taxed at £165 . A few years ago the dvla consulted all concerned, ie the converters and the Caravan Club to 'sort the problem out'. Not unexpectedly the discrimination is now greater. From this April all new motorhomes will be taxed at £140 irrespective weight, The tax rate on pre April vehicles will remain as at present. The dvla argues that the emissions of the new vehicles are known, ie euro5/6 and will be taxed accordingly. They argue that the emissions of all the other vehicles are unknown and so they will continue to tax them as at present. This claim is false. Many motorhomes have engines clssified as ' euro 1,2,3,4 etc which have maximum emission levels specified. It is not rocket science to use these figurers for taxation purposes. The Dvla, however, chose to listen to the commercial lobby and the Caravan Club whose response when I raised the matter with them was, in essence, 'tough luck if you have a small older motorhome, we are not prepared to support such people as we have more important things to do'. Promoting the sale of bigger new motorhomes?
I would be interested in the opinion of other readers on this subject and from anyone who would like to get some fairness into taxation of motorhomes​

 

[MC 55 FUN]

I received an email this morning from a Mr Scaife. I wonder if anyone would like to comment on it.

Message Body:
Many members with small motorhomes are not aware that they are being discriminated against when it comes to paying road tax. Currently motorhomes weighing less than 3500 kg are classified as private light vehicles by the dvla and taxed at £245. Larger vehicles are termed heavy goods vehicles and are taxed at £165 . A few years ago the dvla consulted all concerned, ie the converters and the Caravan Club to 'sort the problem out'. Not unexpectedly the discrimination is now greater. From this April all new motorhomes will be taxed at £140 irrespective weight, The tax rate on pre April vehicles will remain as at present. The dvla argues that the emissions of the new vehicles are known, ie euro5/6 and will be taxed accordingly. They argue that the emissions of all the other vehicles are unknown and so they will continue to tax them as at present. This claim is false. Many motorhomes have engines clssified as ' euro 1,2,3,4 etc which have maximum emission levels specified. It is not rocket science to use these figurers for taxation purposes. The Dvla, however, chose to listen to the commercial lobby and the Caravan Club whose response when I raised the matter with them was, in essence, 'tough luck if you have a small older motorhome, we are not prepared to support such people as we have more important things to do'. Promoting the sale of bigger new motorhomes?
I would be interested in the opinion of other readers on this subject and from anyone who would like to get some fairness into taxation of motorhomes​

I mentioned this anomaly in the other V.E.D. thread today.
£235 / £165.
Our 3.5t Moho in particular has Euro 4 stated on the V5C.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

I cannot understand their point. Those who bought before the new announcement knew what the tax cost would be.
Just because new ones are cheaper that is a bonus for those who can afford one and a benefit in the future to those who buy secondhand.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[xsparks]

I fail to see how they don't know the emissions since they set the level below which each vehicle must attain a pass.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

I cannot understand their point. Those who bought before the new announcement knew what the tax cost would be.
Just because new ones are cheaper that is a bonus for those who can afford one and a benefit in the future to those who buy secondhand.

The point as I see it is this :

Two 2010 Euro 4 Moho's / campers are identical in every way APART from plated weight, 1 weighs 3.5t & is taxed at £235, the other weighs, even theoretically, 3.55t due to a paper exercise uprate, & is taxed at £165 - that anomaly can't be right i.m.o.

 

[DBK]

It's a bit of a minefield at the moment and seems to depend on what the vehicle is classed as and whether there is a CO2 rating in the V5. The new rates relate to CO2 emissions and these don't seem to be recorded for older vehicles.
But the changes don't apply to older vehicles as far as I know, only new registrations after 1 April.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Littlewheels]

"Caravan Club" that's so yesterday!!! They should have consulted The "Caravan and Motorhome Club" I'm sure they would have come out in support.

On a serious note I can never understand why people expect certain organisations to fight their Corner when they are in the business of something remotely connected.

 

[Tootles]

There is another charging angle to this, which many older motorhome owners fall into. If your vehicle was manufactured before March 2001, it falls into one of two permanent bands. Under 1549cc for 12 months, £145.00 Above 1549cc, then it's £235.00, which makes a complete mockery out of this 'charged for emissions' scam. Bear in mind, weight does not come into this computation. And so, you could be running a large RV, with a 5 ltr engine, and only pay £235.00. The guy who worked that out has probably got a knighthood now.

 

[suavecarve]

Before commenting on the letter, is Mr Scaife a private citizen, reporter, lobbyist or some form of representative of a motorhome club ?

I would prefer to know what possible motive he has.

In the meantime, I dont quite know how it will affect me as i bought a 2017 model in November but agreed the price before they raised them to 2017 prices.
So far I am 7 grand better off.
But if this exactly the same model can get cheaper tax then i d be interested, however, I have just uploaded so will only be saving 25 pounds pa. so in real terms i wont be any better off until 2297 AD (excluding compound interest)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EX51SSS]

Last year I deliberately bought a car (ok, bear with me) that had low emissions and both me and SWMBO have cars that are taxed at £20.00 a year (or £1.75 per month). However, I knew the tax position when I bought my Exsis (under 3.5 tonnes) and enquired about uprating. However, thinking about it, the cost to uprate, the savings on VED were before me. I then also considered how long it would take the savings to break even and I decided it wasn't worth uprating. I also took into account about my licence and I can drive my Moho just on my car licence in case my vocational licence medicals fail at some time in the future especially as I take (if I want to keep my vocational licence) a medical every year now whereas I wouldn't need one till 70 then every 3 years (think that's right but sure I'll be told if not)
But at last

I'm in a discriminated group. I can whinge properly and have a reason because I'm discriminated against.

 

[pyro]

Didn't influence my decision about what to buy less than a year ago, I knew the costs involved and bought 3.5T with my eyes open to the disadvantages and the advantages (LEZ, vehicle access, limitations, etc). VED wasn't a factor

As for the CC (or CMC or whatever) , there's a reason why I willingly subscribe here and that self interest group don't get a penny from me.

 

[EX51SSS]

Before commenting on the letter, is Mr Scaife a private citizen, reporter, lobbyist or some form of representative of a motorhome club ?

I would prefer to know what possible motive he has.

In the meantime, I dont quite know how it will affect me as i bought a 2017 model in November but agreed the price before they raised them to 2017 prices.
So far I am 7 grand better off.
But if this exactly the same model can get cheaper tax then i d be interested, however, I have just uploaded so will only be saving 25 pounds pa. so in real terms i wont be any better off until 2297 AD (excluding compound interest)

That's reasonable. Only 180 years to break even then you're on a winner.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[suavecarve]

That's reasonable. Only 180 years to break even then you're on a winner.

Taxi for @EX51SSS to get the donuts in


Well, calculator maybe !

 

[EX51SSS]

Taxi for @EX51SSS to get the donuts in


Well, calculator maybe !

 

[EX51SSS]

Taxi for @EX51SSS to get the donuts in


Well, calculator maybe !

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[suavecarve]

I have just saved that picture as it is an absolute dead cert the Taxi will be called for me in the none too distant future !

 

[EX51SSS]

I have just saved that picture as it is an absolute dead cert the Taxi will be called for me in the none too distant future !

 

[suavecarve]

One of the better taxis and worth watching the right way through

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mpdcymru]

"Discrimination" is an all too easy call in many fields nowadays and, as is often the case, the complainant looks at just the aspect of the story that suits (or does not suit) themselves. As others on here have said the heavier vehicle has an advantage in terms of VED (a tax by the way that can be altered at a stroke in the Chancellors budget - No doubt it could also be changed immediately by the PM but that is another matter), but it comes with what many may see as a disadvantage in terms of the driving licence.

Wherever a dividing line is placed in an issue, whether it concerns the year of manufacture or the emissions rate of a vehicle or the territory between two neighbouring countries, it is almost certain to cause injustice, or perceived injustice to some near that dividing line.

Are there not bigger things to worry about?

 

[Larrynwin]

Comparing ved cost and the depreciation on my mhome , no contest.

 

[Neckender]

Just bought a Ford Fiesta no tax, so according to the above our new motorhome 3rd April £140 so I will be winning all round.

John.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Euro emissions are well documented here :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europ...ssion_standards_for_light_commercial_vehicles

so if a Moho / camper has a Euro rating on the V5C it really shouldn't be rocket science to charge the appropriate V.E.D.

 

[mikebeaches]

Government guide to VED reform for new motorhomes:

http://dvla.dft.gov.uk/ved/industry-brief-motorhomes-kit-builds-multi-stage-build-vehicles.pdf

 

[jessthedog]

I can see another petition coming

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

I posted the below on another thread:

My understanding is that if a new MH/camper is registered from 1st April 2017 on the V5C:

• with the CO2 info showing then it will be subject to the new tax regime
• without the CO2 info on then it will still be taxed as now, either as a PLGV or PHGV.

As the vast majority of MHs don't have the CO2 info on the V5C then they will fall into the second category.
​

From the email to Jim above ...

From this April all new motorhomes will be taxed at £140 irrespective weight, The tax rate on pre April vehicles will remain as at present.

What the writer doesn't appear to appreciate is that this is only reduced in year one, in the next 4 years they will also pay an extra £310 a year, so £450 a year on the assumption that the vehicle will cost over £40,000 based on the 'list' price which most, if not all new ones, will regardless of size, this means that the older in the 3500kg and under category are actually 'cheaper' on road tax than the 'new' ones, but obviously the older ones in the over 3500kg category will be even 'better off'.

It is a bit of a mess but it isn't specific to motorhomes, it relates to all vehicles that fall into each category, nothing to do with whether its a van, car, camper, MH etc.

Anyway ... that's my understanding of it all!

 

[pappajohn]

He's talking rubbish.
He seems to think motorhomers are being discriminated against.
Motorhomes are not taxed (ved) as motorhomes, they are taxed as goods vehicles.....either light goods or heavy goods depending on weight.
What he's saying affects EVERY white van man in the country....not just motorhome owners.

Also, what he forgot to mention is the additional premium in the first year and a reduced premium for the 3 years thereafter over and above the annual VED before it drops to £140pa.

 

[Minxy]

Government guide to VED reform for new motorhomes:

http://dvla.dft.gov.uk/ved/industry-brief-motorhomes-kit-builds-multi-stage-build-vehicles.pdf

So reading that it's basically what I said ... if it has the CO2 shown it will be taxed according to the 'new' rules, if not it will continue to be taxed as PLGV or PHGV.

Extracts from the above linked document:

Section 03:
Which vehicles are affected by the changes? The changes will apply to vehicles categorised as M1, M1SP and M1G vehicles on the type approval certificate. Vehicles in these categories will be subject to the new vehicle tax scheme where there is a CO 2 emissions figure on the final build type approval. Motorhomes, kit builds and multi-stage build vehicles which do not have a CO 2 emissions figure on the final type approval will continue to be taxed as PLG or PHGV depending on weight.

Section 04:
Motorhomes, kit builds and multi-stage build vehicles When registering a motorhome, kit build or multi-stage build vehicle and there is a CO 2 emissions figure on the final type approval document, you must also provide a ‘List/Notional Price’ when registering the vehicle for the first time.
​

One thing's for sure ... seeing as dealers can't even tell most people what the correct payload is for MHs how the heck are they're gonna be able to tell people what tax will be payable! It is gonna be interesting!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

Just bought a Ford Fiesta no tax, so according to the above our new motorhome 3rd April £140 so I will be winning all round.

John.

You probably won't be celebrating in years 2, 3, 4 and 5 though ...

 

[pappajohn]

this is only reduced in year one, in the next 4 years they will also pay an extra £310 a year, so £450 a year on the assumption that the vehicle will cost over £40,000

I thought the first year carried an additional one off premium as well as the £310 for the next 3 years ?

 

[MC 55 FUN]

What he's saying affects EVERY white van man in the country....not just motorhome owners.

Surely unaltered panel vans have the emission values pertinent to their Euro rating on their respective V5C though ? & therefore white van man currently pays accordingly - this is not the case with many 3.5t Moho's / campers.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}