Sine Wave inverter fitting (1 Viewer)

[Richard n Ann]

What I'd like to know is how do all the power stations across the country synchronise ?

 

[Hymerbell]

We only use ours for charging the e-bikes or once when my 12v laptop charger died.
Get the boss a Babyliss gas hair styler only £20 -£25 they use little butane cartridges.

HaHa...a gas hair styler....sounds a bit hairy (pun intended). Do you have to light it like a blow torch ?

 

[John Barrett]

We only use ours for charging the e-bikes or once when my 12v laptop charger died.
Get the boss a Babyliss gas hair styler only £20 -£25 they use little butane cartridges.

Agreed. Last week I bought Jan the Braun version for her birthday. It was a wise move as last year I bought her a garden hose reel...

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[Hymerbell]

Agreed. Last week I bought Jan the Braun version for her birthday. It was a wise move as last year I bought her a garden hose reel...

Fantastic...I’ve got next Birthday sorted...I was going for a set of saucepans.

 

[Hymerbell]

80a/h Gels are around £165 at the moment, I have 3 80a/h Gels in my van with a 1000 watt inverter max I take out of them is about 70 amps which is fine, around 800 watts. Certainly don't want to take more than 30 amps out of each.
A good cheap flooded battery is the Varta LDF a 90a/h is a good one, about £90. Not recommended to run flooded below 50% DOD which will give you 45 a/h of use where as a gel can ve taken down to 80% DOD and still have a long life so an 80a/h Gel will give 64a/h of useful power.

Sonnenschein 78a/h Gels are a few quid cheaper than Exide, Sonenschine make the Exide Gels.

Sounds like Gel batteries are the way to go....are there any benefits in flooded batteries apart from price ?

 

[funflair]

Hmm...more to this than I thought. I’m starting to wonder if I actually NEED an inverter apart from the missus hair dryer. My iPad charges on 12v along with my phone, power tools are lithium battery, I could even get a 12v charger for my MacBook....don’t drink coffee so don’t have coffee maker. What else would I use an inverter for? The only thing I can think of is my 2 hot plate little portable....and I seem to remember someone saying that anything that heats up requires a LOT of power and not suitable for a 1000w inverter.

I put one in my last Hymer for charging of my E-bike But now I have a garage thinking of getting a motor scooter Although it would be useful to charge my e-bike as well....but then again is a 1000w inverter suitable for charging a 500w e-bike battery.

it seems to me that unless you go for a 3000w inverter and goodness knows how many batteries inverters are not much use. I’ve installed GasLo so everything (apart from she who will be obeyed’s hairdryer ?) can be done on gas or 12v.

We had 2kw inverter and 320ah of Exide Gel batteries, used lots for the usual hair dryer, microwave and coffee machine plus running the fridge when loads of sun and charging anything that needs charging, two of the Gels were 10 years old and two were 5 when we sold the van and still going strong.

Wouldn't be without the inverter so the next van has 320ah of LiFePO4 and 520watts of solar.

Martin

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[tonyidle]

Does that mean a 1000w will be drawing 100 amps

Just for info:

Watts stay the same no matter what the power source. Watts = Amps x Volts.
Or Amps = Watts ÷ Volts.

1000 ÷ 12 = 93 or, allowing for inverter inefficiency, 100-ish.

 

[Hymerbell]

Crikey.....well thanks everyone....I know 100% more than I did about inverters and batteries now....so that’s 2% knowledge under my belt....

 

[John Barrett]

I fitted a bank of eight Marathon 105Ah AGM batteries in my boat. They were second hand -from a City Bank backup- when I bought them, and they lasted several years without mishap. High loads no problem and could be left for months without significant discharge.
I fed them with a big Victron charger/inverter which IIRC was quite expensive at the time. Problems with clever batteries can often be put down to inappropriate use and/or inadequate charging systems.

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[Lenny HB]

I fitted a bank of eight Marathon 105Ah AGM batteries in my boat. They were second hand -from a City Bank backup- when I bought them, and they lasted several years without mishap. High loads no problem and could be left for months without significant discharge.
I fed them with a big Victron charger/inverter which IIRC was quite expensive at the time...

GNB Marathon M 12V 105 FT UL94 NAMF120105VM0FA VRLA 12 V 100 Ah AGM (W x H x D) 110 x 238 x 511 mm M6 connector Maintena | Conrad.com

Conrad - your technology specialist. More than 550,000 products for professionals. 95 years of experience in electronics, information technology, mea

www.conrad.com

A bit different to the AGM's sold in this industry, which are really starter batteries.

 

[Raul]

A bit different to the AGM's sold in this industry, which are really starter batteries.

Agree, anything sold as leisure batt is not really deep cycle. That’s why I try to steer ppl to industrial traction batteries. They come in different flavours and are true deep cycle. Regardless being sealed, vrla or flooded. But for mobile application, on the budget, the closest are the truck batteries.

On your e bike, you could use a dc-dc 12 to 36 or 48v; whatever is your pack running at. Much better than a inverter as you are doing double conversion.

 

[Hymerbell]

Agree, anything sold as leisure batt is not really deep cycle. That’s why I try to steer ppl to industrial traction batteries. They come in different flavours and are true deep cycle. Regardless being sealed, vrla or flooded. But for mobile application, on the budget, the closest are the truck batteries.

On your e bike, you could use a dc-dc 12 to 36 or 48v; whatever is your pack running at. Much better than a inverter as you are doing double conversion.

Ah right...will have a look at my e-bike charger/battery pack...another reason not to buy an inverter.

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[peterc10]

Similar situation to me.....looks like mine is being installed solely to run my better half’s hairdryer ?

Don't knock it ...... that is the only use my 2000W inverter gets so modified sine wave is fine.

A happy wife leads to a happy life.

 

[Lenny HB]

On your e bike, you could use a dc-dc 12 to 36 or 48v; whatever is your pack running at. Much better than a inverter as you are doing double conversion.

Depends on the battery can't do it the Bosch ones.

 

[Hymerbell]

Don't knock it ...... that is the only use my 2000W inverter gets so modified sine wave is fine.

A happy wife leads to a happy life.

Haven’t married her yet...I’m testing her out first. She lost a few points on the hairdryer insistence.

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[Lenny HB]

Sounds like Gel batteries are the way to go....are there any benefits in flooded batteries apart from price ?

It depends on your usage, I'm a fan of Gels but if you are driving on every day or spending most of your time on EHU flooded batteries are OK.
Although you can discharge Gel's lower they take longer to fully charge, once they are up to 14.2v they are only 80% charged and to fully charge they need an absorption charge of several hours where as a flooded cell only needs an hour. If you are staying off grid for a few days and you get the odd day without sun then the Gel wins with it's extra useable capacity.

 

[Hymerbell]

It depends on your usage, I'm a fan of Gels but if you are driving on every day or spending most of your time on EHU flooded batteries are OK.
Although you can discharge Gel's lower they take longer to fully charge, once they are up to 14.2v they are only 80% charged and to fully charge they need an absorption charge of several hours where as a flooded cell only needs an hour. If you are staying off grid for a few days and you get the odd day without sun then the Gel wins with it's extra useable capacity.

So the longer you stay off grid the more beneficial Gels are because you can discharge them lower....is that correct. If you are always on EHU It doesn’t make any difference apart from cost. Do Gels generally last longer than Flooded in terms of longevity...ie having to replace them ? I’m struggling to see any advantage in getting Flooded apart from price....and if Gels have to be replaced less then perhaps even that isn’t an advantage.

 

[Lenny HB]

So the longer you stay off grid the more beneficial Gels are because you can discharge them lower....is that correct. If you are always on EHU It doesn’t make any difference apart from cost. Do Gels generally last longer than Flooded in terms of longevity...ie having to replace them ? I’m struggling to see any advantage in getting Flooded apart from price....and if Gels have to be replaced less then perhaps even that isn’t an advantage.

Yes that's right and Gels last a lot longer, 6 years plus is the norm often over 10 years.

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[Hymerbell]

I’m also starting to get a bit worried about my Banners....as DBK said...no point replacing them if they are OK...but then again depending on when lock down ends...if it’s after October we were thinking of doing 2 or 3 months in Morocco....Baptism of fire for she who must be obeyed (with or without hair dryer) as she’s never done MH’ing before...not a good place to get batteries I suspect...although Spain and France I assume are OK.

 

[Lenny HB]

I’m also starting to get a bit worried about my Banners....as DBK said...no point replacing them if they are OK...but then again depending on when lock down ends...if it’s after October we were thinking of doing 2 or 3 months in Morocco....Baptism of fire for she who must be obeyed (with or without hair dryer) as she’s never done MH’ing before...not a good place to get batteries I suspect...although Spain and France I assume are OK.

I would definitely replace them before you go.

 

[Hymerbell]

Depends on the battery can't do it the Bosch ones.

Oh...mine are Bosch...maybe an inverter after all ?

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[DBK]

What I'd like to know is how do all the power stations across the country synchronise ?

They are all connected together so it isn't possible for one to get out of phase I believe. A generator in a power station will draw power and run like a motor. When power is applied to the armature it moves ahead of the rotating magnetic field by forty five degrees (or a bit more) and this is when it puts energy back into the grid - changing from a motor to a generator.

 

[Hymerbell]

They are all connected together so it isn't possible for one to get out of phase I believe. A generator in a power station will draw power and run like a motor. When power is applied to the armature it moves ahead of the rotating magnetic field by forty five degrees (or a bit more) and this is when it puts energy back into the grid - changing from a motor to a generator.

You learn so much on this site......I always thought it was just a big cable.

 

[Lenny HB]

Oh...mine are Bosch...maybe an inverter after all ?

View attachment 388133

Yep especially when the batteries are £500.

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[tonyidle]

They are all connected together so it isn't possible for one to get out of phase I believe. A generator in a power station will draw power and run like a motor. When power is applied to the armature it moves ahead of the rotating magnetic field by forty five degrees (or a bit more) and this is when it puts energy back into the grid - changing from a motor to a generator.

But if a power station is completely off-line ........... Very many years ago Kendal had a local Diesel-powered power station (and was connected to the grid). When not in use it was disconnected from the grid and when it came to reconnect synch was performed manually by a man watching a meter (with an unfamiliar, to me, name). When the pointer centred he threw the switch. Once connected the local generator did as you say and frequency locked to the grid so it couldn't move out of phase. Where necessary such things are now (and probably have been for the last 30+ years) performed electronically. I learned all this when at the power station with a GPO installer sometime around 1965.

 

[Googlebot]

I’m also starting to get a bit worried about my Banners....as DBK said...no point replacing them if they are OK...but then again depending on when lock down ends...if it’s after October we were thinking of doing 2 or 3 months in Morocco....Baptism of fire for she who must be obeyed (with or without hair dryer) as she’s never done MH’ing before...not a good place to get batteries I suspect...although Spain and France I assume are OK.

Beware if you buy abroad, a mate had a battery go in the French Alps. He managed to get another one but it was about €180 and nothing special.

I too have Banner Energy Bulls. They work fine but are 7 years old so I am expecting them to die. Just working out if I go for gel or lithium. Lithium will require a B2B and a new mains charger as I can’t use the Electroblock. Looking at £800 for just one lithium with chargers, I can just put a gel in and carry on for much less.

 

[autorouter]

Power control, lets you set how much power you allow in pass thru. If that’s max and you use more then “ power assist “ kicks in if is set to, and helps by inverting the extra requirement. It does not feed into the grid from battery. Let alone from PV.
l

I agree, I think I got the term grid-tie wrong. However Multiplus and Quattro inverter/chargers can be used to feed power into the grid, provided they also have a special mains isolator controlled by the software, connected by a signal wire. They can communicate with the Victron smart MPPT controllers too, and thus send excess solar power back into the grid. The advantage is they don't switch off when the grid goes down. They simply open the special mains isolator to protect the grid workers, and continue to supply power to the local sockets from battery or solar.

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[autorouter]

I too have Banner Energy Bulls. They work fine but are 7 years old so I am expecting them to die

The OP has Banner Running Bulls. An entirely different battery type, designed as a starter battery. See post #18.

 

[thebriars]

Hmm...more to this than I thought. I’m starting to wonder if I actually NEED an inverter apart from the missus hair dryer.

Two solutions.

1. Short hair
2. 12v hair dryer. You can get them, a bit slow, but you're on holiday!

 

[John Barrett]

Having owned one, it would have to be a long holiday...

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