Should we be worried by this dealers response! (2 Viewers)

Sep 16, 2013
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I've only skim read this thread so sorry if I've missed anything.

If a dealer had fitted something to my van and it had been done so poorly that it had fallen off and although didn't, it could have caused an accident and injury, and then they brushed off any responsibility when informed about it, then I would feel it my duty to make sure other potential victims were made aware.

Ask yourself how you would feel if in six months the same happens to another and it does cause an accident?

The dealer seems to have made it clear they don't want to know. They have had there chance to respond.

I would out them then forget about it.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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If you can have it inspected by someone competent that you trust. The cause of detachment is perfectly obvious - the adhesive (Sikaflex I assume) is still in the pattern laid out by the installer. Enough adhesive should have been used such that when compressed during installation it would completely cover the two faces to be joined. The roof seam is a red herring - not clever but not harmful either

I've seen too many instances of bad practice by dealers to allow any of them anywhere near a motorhome I owned. My motorhomes have all been S/H purchases so I've found either poor DiY or poor dealer workmanship. Two obvious examples illustrate the problems:

A Fiamma awning had been fitted to a van a month before I bought it. The installation was done at a show & comprised an awning rail pop-riveted to the van. The Fiamma roll-out was hooked into the awning rail then bolted through the bodywork towards the bottom of the inside of the awning 'box'.

Rolling out the awning (however far) had caused the 'box' to pivot on the lower bolts ripping the pop-rivets through the skin of the van. Result - water ingress. Fiamma produce the correct fittings for every roof section known to man and, if required universal sidewall brackets which, had they been used, would have allowed the thick GRP roof or a large area of the van side to take the load.

My current van came with an instruction leaflet, produced by the supplying dealer explaining how the modifications, requested by the original owner, had been performed & how to use them:

- reversing camera. Mounted off the centre of the rear panel (made more obvious by being 2" below the centrally-mounted hi-level brake light) with non-stainless screws. The third hole in the centre of its bracket, larger than the other two & intended for the cable, had another rusty screw & rusty large washer covering it. When I removed the camera because it had water in it I found another hole, hidden by the bracket, presumably drilled in error. The camera has a very slim plug on it so that only a small hole needs to be drilled (8mm). Mine had the unnecessary cable hole at 20mm below (and again not in the centre of) the camera. The grommet they had forgotten to fit was split to go over the wire then coated in silicon sealant.

- living area radio. They had installed a living area radio (same make as cab radio but cheaper model) in a side locker. The speakers were in the lockers either side of the one in which the radio was installed. It was hung under the locker internal shelf with exposed wiring at the back covered by duct tape. It didn't work - it fizzed but no stations available. I investigated its aerial which turned out to be on of those freebies in the shape of a 'T' that come with home stereos. it was bodged into the radio aerial socket then folded into the wiring channel. Inside an aluminium-skinned van!! I removed all trace of it & in doing so found cut-off wiring from the cab radio to the rear speakers. Because its a Hymer with the charge / distribution unit behind the panel to the right of the drivers knee I was able to use 4 feet of wire to connect the cab radio to the leisure supplies. Took about 20 minutes.

I could go on (I have gone on :) ). There was more poor workmanship around the fitting of an alternative awning light. The dealer in question is a very large one based in Newark.

There are many competent and professional accessory suppliers/installers: at least one of them appears on here. Never, ever, use a motorhome-supplying dealer to install aftermarket accessories unless you know which individual will do the work and have seen him in action or at least discussed the job with him. The work on my van (and previous ones) appears to have been done by whoever could carry a pistol drill & a length of wire at the same time. I doubt he had opposable thumbs.
 

eddie

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Oct 4, 2007
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Hi I know that we have swapped a couple of emails and I couldn't really help much. However, we took off a Maxview dome prior to Christmas as the chap wanted a KVH fitting.

So I have a shiny intact Maxview dome (minus controller) that is about a year old, sat in our stock room.

Would you like it?

Free of charge of course

Eddie

AND NO IT WASN'T VAN BITZ THAT FITTED THE ORIGINAL :secret::secret:

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Nov 6, 2013
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Lets suppose for one crazy minute here that it actually fell off because of poor fitting, what then, what of the dealer, he just ignores the issue washes his hands and carries on regardless? How would each of us feel if it was you?
.
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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Hi I know that we have swapped a couple of emails and I couldn't really help much. However, we took off a Maxview dome prior to Christmas as the chap wanted a KVH fitting.

So I have a shiny intact Maxview dome (minus controller) that is about a year old, sat in our stock room.

Would you like it?

Free of charge of course

Eddie


AND NO IT WASN'T VAN BITZ THAT FITTED THE ORIGINAL :secret::secret:

Eddie, that is such a generous offer and that shows the integrity of you and your company.
As much as I would love to accept, I just don't feel I could trust another dome up there.
Although my dome has just a few more bits to do I won't even be putting that back on. I am just about to order a wind-up dish as a compramise.

Many thanks though :thumb:

Man, thats emotional...

P.S no it definitely was not Eddie's company.
 

callumwa

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Jan 16, 2011
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To my (unskilled) eye there is a total lack of sealant. It looks like Scrooge was squeezing the tube. The feet should be seated on a solid bed of sealant several mm thick. We also do not know what quality sealant was actually used.

I agree with getting a 2nd opinion from an experienced and suitably qualified fitter of this type of equipment. Discuss with the dealer again your issues, and if necessary, inform him you will be going through the small claims court if necessary.

Small Claims is a very easy, straightforward, inexpensive and not too time consuming process. At least a decision will be made and you know you have tried your best to get a result.

Good luck.

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eddie

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I really can't see how the small claims court route would work.

Mr "A" Buys a van from a dealer. Takes it to a garage and has a dome fitted.

Mr "A" sells the motorhome to a dealer.

Emmanay buys the motorhome from the dealer.

Surely Emmanay's contract is with the motorhome dealer.

There is no connection between Emmanay and the garage that installed the dome.

Not suggesting that this situation is right or wrong, but don't see how the Small Claims Court would be appropriate?

Eddie
 

Jim

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Jul 19, 2007
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Eddie, that is such a generous offer and that shows the integrity of you and your company.
As much as I would love to accept, I just don't feel I could trust another dome up there.
Although my dome has just a few more bits to do I won't even be putting that back on. I[HI] am just about to order a wind-up dish as a compramise.[/HI]

Many thanks though :thumb:

Man, thats emotional...

P.S no it definitely was not Eddie's company.


If it were me I'd be ordering that dish off of Eddie. Proper job and 10% discount too::bigsmile:
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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I have just realised why I am feeling so put out and kranky today :RollEyes:,
I went to collect my little KA last night from the repairers (someone hit it up the R send in spain not long after the dome fell off) and when I inspected it I was amazed at the shoddy way the bumper had been refitted. Needles to say it was rejected and I'm still waiting for the second ready call. :Angry: No doubt I will get shafted by the insurance co. with the excess!

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Minxy

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I've only quickly read this thread so may have missed something, but on initial reading my though is that the company who fitted the dome don't have any reason to rectify the problem, however, the dealer you bought it off would surely have some responsibility for ensuring that a vehicle they sold you had been checked to ensure it was safe (ie nothing would fall off!) when they did so? Have you contacted the dealer you actually bought it off?
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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If it were me I'd be ordering that dish off of Eddie. Proper job and 10% discount too::bigsmile:
I probably will be amongst a few other little bits.
On the way down I might just throw the remains of my dome through the office window of the other dealer!
Yes that is an indication of location......:thumb:
 

DBK

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As emmenay doesn't want a replacement dome I am at a loss as to what we have all been talking about here. However, I think SOGA still applies, the entire MH has to be fit for purpose, the second dealer would have to recover their costs from the first separately. It would be exactly the same if a poor repair to the engine had been done by someone else, as is often the case with secondhand vehicles. The selling dealer can't say "not my problem, I didn't do it". They have to warrant the vehicle - slightly different legislation but same principle.

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Emmenay

Emmenay

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I've only quickly read this thread so may have missed something, but on initial reading my though is that the company who fitted the dome don't have any reason to rectify the problem, however, the dealer you bought it off would surely have some responsibility for ensuring that a vehicle they sold you had been checked to ensure it was safe (ie nothing would fall off!) when they did so? Have you contacted the dealer you actually bought it off?
Admittedly no I haven't but I would have thought it a more fruitless move.
 

hilldweller

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the dealer you bought it off would surely have some responsibility for ensuring that a vehicle they sold you had been checked to ensure it was safe (ie nothing would fall off!)

To be fair, how do could they tell that it was not stuck down properly ? It was an invisible fault.

I don't know why but this reminds me of Comet 1 which was on TV recently. 100 people flying along when plane falls apart. Failure due to bad workmanship. A fault just waiting for the right time to strike.

Shit happens.

Eddie the Magnificent has the answer, a free replacement and get on with life.
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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[HI]As emmenay doesn't want a replacement dome I am at a loss as to what we have all been talking about here[/HI]. However, I think SOGA still applies, the entire MH has to be fit for purpose, the second dealer would have to recover their costs from the first separately. It would be exactly the same if a poor repair to the engine had been done by someone else, as is often the case with secondhand vehicles. The selling dealer can't say "not my problem, I didn't do it". They have to warrant the vehicle - slightly different legislation but same principle.
Its about me politely notifying a dealer/installer that one of the many many products that they no doubt professionally install has failed catastrophicaly endangering lives and I thought they should know.
Instead of saying 'Shit, lets have a look and make sure it doesn't happen again', they just shirk their responsibilities, and yes they do have some.
Call it what you like, I like justice, I am a fan of safety especially when it comes to work, and work is what they are doing.
If they said, 'bring us the remains so we can learn from it, it would have been an end to it, but, as has been said, what if the next one is fatal?

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hilldweller

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they just shirk their responsibilities,

What else in this day and age. They don't know your mind, they probably think that you are about to unleash a NWNF outfit on them.

But you have done what you set out to, they certainly will take notice even if they dare not admit anything.

I must say this confirms my gut feeling about gluing. I fitted a solar panel, oozing with gunge but I could not stop myself adding screws "just in case". And that was the second fitting, the first place was in the shadow of the TV aerial when up and I had a hell of a job un-gunging the brackets.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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I totally understand why your upset as it would piss me of if anything fitted to my Mh roof fell off,however as said we the drivers are responsible for our vehicles.The chances that it just spontaneously fell of are slim,it more than likely became loose over a period of time before letting go.
If there's one thing to be learnt here it's that we should be inspecting the equipment on our roofs on a regular basis.Thus spoting any defects before things detach.




Vlad
 
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Emmenay

Emmenay

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What else in this day and age. They don't know your mind, they probably think that you are about to unleash a NWNF outfit on them.

But you have done what you set out to, they certainly will take notice even if they dare not admit anything.

I must say this confirms my gut feeling about gluing. I fitted a solar panel, oozing with gunge but I could not stop myself adding screws "just in case". And that was the second fitting, the first place was in the shadow of the TV aerial when up and I had a hell of a job un-gunging the brackets.

If nothing else this whole sorry saga has raised an awareness as to fixtures on motorhomes. Is gluing really good enough, I don't think it is.
At the end of the day I will not be going to Essanjay for any work on my van and I hope they understand my anger. Job done.:thumb:

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jonandshell

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Any liability lies with your supplying dealer, its that simple!

It doesn't matter who fitted the dome and when, it is your supplying dealer who should have ensured the motorhome as a whole was fit for the purpose sold.
 
Feb 9, 2008
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I think I was on a hiding to nothing regardless.

You may well be right ! How many of us would think to ask for a written guarantee/warranty for this kind of work. We all assume the person/organisation undertaking the work knows what there doing and we take a leap of faith.
I wonder what reaction one would get from a dealer if a warranty was asked for this kind of work.

I would put this experience behind you and move on, as has been suggested. Life is too short.

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ShiftZZ

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A thought, looking at their webpage, its claimed that they are:
Link Removed

If this is true, then you would have a right to have the van examined under that scheme.. I am sure some dealers on here can point you in the right directions as to who the logo relates to.
 

ShiftZZ

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Mind you, if you parked outside the directors home, with a BIG note attached to your VAN. "MY DOME FELL OFF AND GUESS WHO IS TO BLAME."

That may well get a change of mind..:RollEyes:.

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Techno

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Clearly there was not enough adhesive "sealant is not the correct term" in this instance of a multi purpose product it's job was to stick not seal. It has failed by possibly being the wrong product for the job but certainly by incorrect preparation/application.
As has been said there should be complete coverage and to a minimum thickness.
The surfaces of the dome feet have not been prepared correctly and if we had pictures of those I believe there would be no trace of adhesive on them as it did not bond.
As has also been said it is practically impossible to check this while it was still attached.
I completely understand your concern at the dealers complete dismissal of you concerns.

Regarding had it been moved :roflmto: If the adhesive was correctly used the old feet would still be in place

Great offer from ED :thumb:
 
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Jim

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Dave, that is two separate logos.


A thought, looking at their webpage, its claimed that they are:
Link Removed

If this is true, then you would have a right to have the van examined under that scheme.. I am sure some dealers on here can point you in the right directions as to who the logo relates to.
 

magicsurfbus

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It might have been mentioned here already, but when I had problems with a sat dish installation I was told that the base plate(s) shouldn't be resting on sealant. The sealant should be applied after the base is screwed down firmly to the roof.

Only what I was told mind - may not be gospel.

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Aug 6, 2013
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Might be of interest / help: when I fitted my solar panel I was mildly concerned that if the adhesive failed a heavy lump of kit might upset following motorists. I was still loathe to drill the roof though so I obtained a length of thin stainless cable from a chandlers, attached it to a convenient bolt on the panel, then ran it with the wiring into the van & attached it to a sturdy screw inside the locker. No extra holes & I think I'd hear a loose panel flapping around on the end of a Bowden cable as I was driving.::bigsmile:
 

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