short circuit after fridge removal? (1 Viewer)

[kenchil14]

Hi ,well where to start ? after removing my Electrolux three way fridge on my 2002 Avantgarde 400RL MH to fix a leak on my water supply to the mixer taps ,I have created another problem ?
After carefully removing fridge with no visible straining of cables or especially gas pipe and 12v systems ,every time I turn fridge on it trips the MH rcd , the shed and the house rcd ?
I have checked and renewed the connection to the fridge and it is fine ?
For the life of me I cannot see what has occurred ?
Has anyone had any thoughts on this ?it is so frustrating ,it obviously has something to do with the fridge removal as was fine before ?
Thanks for any help with this bemusing problem

 

[mitzimad]

just work bacwards does it trip with the fridge disconnected does it trip with the circuit breaker tripped

 

[Mike800966]

So the problem is one of earth leakage rather than short circuit as its bringing out rcds.
That black wire looks a bit odd but start by disconnecting the feed cable from the fridge and see if problem persists.
Hope this helps
Mike

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Raul]

With the fridge off, disconnected from power supply, check if you have continuity between PE earth and neutral, as well as between life and earth. You should have none.

 

[kenchil14]

just work bacwards does it trip with the fridge disconnected does it trip with the circuit breaker tripped

Thanks for your reply

 

[kenchil14]

So the problem is one of earth leakage rather than short circuit as its bringing out rcds.
That black wire looks a bit odd but start by disconnecting the feed cable from the fridge and see if problem persists.
Hope this helps
Mike

Thanks Mike800966 will try that

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[kenchil14]

With the fridge off, disconnected from power supply, check if you have continuity between PE earth and neutral, as well as between life and earth. You should have none.

Hi @Raul,thank you for your advice sorry to sound stupid ,what is PE earth ?

 

[Raul]

Hi @Raul,thank you for your advice sorry to sound stupid ,what is PE earth ?

Protective earth, it’s the earth yellow/green conductor found in AC wiring. I said PE, to make a distinction from commonly wrong used terminology for the -ve DC conductor. That’s a common grounding, not earth.

 

[kenchil14]

Protective earth, it’s the earth yellow/green conductor found in AC wiring. I said PE, to make a distinction from commonly wrong used terminology for the -ve DC conductor. That’s a common grounding, not earth.

Brilliant thanks

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mike800966]

That sort of trip responds to an imbalance between what's going up the supply red ( or brown) and what's coming back via the black (or blue)
It's not the same as a short circuit which is another sort of trip which responds to limit the current. Confusingly and nowadays they are often combined in one , an rcbo.
Just a bit of background
Mike

 

[kenchil14]

That sort of trip responds to an imbalance between what's going up the supply red ( or brown) and what's coming back via the black (or blue)
It's not the same as a short circuit which is another sort of trip which responds to limit the current. Confusingly and nowadays they are often combined in one , an rcbo.
Just a bit of background
Mike

@thanks Mike ,

 

[kenchil14]

Hi finally got to work on our MH ,after removing the fridge to gain access to the tap which was leaking which I have now fixed
However I have still got the problem with the fridge tripping the MH rcds and the one in the house too
I have checked all the connections and all seems fine but it still keeps tripping the rcds
I tried un connecting the 240 feed to it and made up a lead with a plug on it and connecting that to it straight from one of the vans 240 sockets but with the same result ,I am not an expert by a long way on electrics and am at a loss of as what to try next ,would like to fix it myself but not sure if I can ,has anyone on here have any thoughts on this ?appreciate any help given ,it is so frustrating Cheers Ken.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Itsmcb]

Iis not very clear but in that last photo you have brown and blue cables going into the connector block but two black ones coming out. However there are brown cables further to the left just in view. Have you mixed up the cables by any chance? Maybe a slightly wider phot would help

 

[kenchil14]

Iis not very clear but in that last photo you have brown and blue cables going into the connector block but two black ones coming out. However there are brown cables further to the left just in view. Have you mixed up the cables by any chance? Maybe a slightly wider phot would help

Hi ,thanks for the reply will take a wider photo later ,but didn't remove black wires only the the feed cable brown blue and earth ,everything is the same as was before ,I always take a piccy before taking anything apart

 

[TheBig1]

Odd as it may sound, but just moving the fridge from it's cupboard has been known to cause an element to fail. They go either open circuit or short circuit. That would trip the circuit as described with no visible symptoms

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[kenchil14]

Odd as it may sound, but just moving the fridge from it's cupboard has been known to cause an element to fail. They go either open circuit or short circuit. That would trip the circuit as described with no visible symptoms

Hi thanks for that ,that sounds interesting are they very expensive do you know ?

 

[TheBig1]

They start at about £40 dependant on the model of fridge. Simple enough to fit too

 

[kenchil14]

They start at about £40 dependant on the model of fridge. Simple enough to fit too

Oh wow thanks so much for your help will check that out next

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GeoffnDee]

You should be able to disconnect the 230v heater element from the circuit to check if this is the problem , which model of Electrolux fridge is it ?

 

[kenchil14]

You should be able to disconnect the 230v heater element from the circuit to check if this is the problem , which model of Electrolux fridge is it ?

HI thank you for your reply it is an electrolux RM4230 ,pnc number 00921071413

 

[Raul]

Indeed, you can test this simple fault.
Do you have a multimeter?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[kenchil14]

Indeed, you can test this simple fault.
Do you have a multimeter?

HI Raul yes I do have a multimeter ,could you please tell how me how to use it too diagnose the element with it , sorry for the basic question,I am learning this stuff to keep our old MH Dora going ,she is a 2001 Avantgarde 400RL

 

[Raul]

Select continuity on your meter. This may be diode symbol and press a button to select continuity. If not easier to select Ohms/resistance. Check with the meter Leeds, touch them and on ohms when they touch, it will display 000 or 0, meaning no resistance, full continuity.

Now on the fridge with the 230v wires disconnected, brown, blue yellow- green. Check with the meter between connections of the element brown to yellow, then blue to yellow, This should not give you any continuity no 000’s. If it does element is shorting to earth. If it doesn’t the element is good, fault may be upstream. Connect the 230v wires to the element, with the Moho rcd off and unplugged from ehu. No power. Test the same for continuity from brown to yellow and blue to yellow. If all good, it means circuit is ok. Turn Moho rcd on, still ehu disconnected. Test again, if all good, your rcd is ok. Next step is your hook up lead. You can test that unplugged from the house. If that turns good, it may be the socket you plug in to. If fault still there upstream, from here on you’ll need a electrician to test your house circuit.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Is it possible that you have got the blue and brown wires crossed as these wires connect to the green 230v on/off duel pole switch with one of the connections going onwards through the electrical thermostat . (the other is connected onwards to the 230v heater element)
If not could the wiring on the rear of the green 230v operation switch have been disturbed ?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[kenchil14]

Select continuity on your meter. This may be diode symbol and press a button to select continuity. If not easier to select Ohms/resistance. Check with the meter Leeds, touch them and on ohms when they touch, it will display 000 or 0, meaning no resistance, full continuity.

Now on the fridge with the 230v wires disconnected, brown, blue yellow- green. Check with the meter between connections of the element brown to yellow, then blue to yellow, This should not give you any continuity no 000’s. If it does element is shorting to earth. If it doesn’t the element is good, fault may be upstream. Connect the 230v wires to the element, with the Moho rcd off and unplugged from ehu. No power. Test the same for continuity from brown to yellow and blue to yellow. If all good, it means circuit is ok. Turn Moho rcd on, still ehu disconnected. Test again, if all good, your rcd is ok. Next step is your hook up lead. You can test that unplugged from the house. If that turns good, it may be the socket you plug in to. If fault still there upstream, from here on you’ll need a electrician to test your house circuit.

Wow thank you very much for your extensive reply and taking your time for me .much appreciated I will carefully follow your advice tomorrow Kind Regards Ken.

 

[kenchil14]

Is it possible that you have got the blue and brown wires crossed as these wires connect to the green 230v on/off duel pole switch with one of the connections going onwards through the electrical thermostat . (the other is connected onwards to the 230v heater element)
If not could the wiring on the rear of the green 230v operation switch have been disturbed ?

Thanks for taking your time to replying to me ,but all the wiring is actually as was when working fine .nothing has been altered

 

[GeoffnDee]

Ok , then It would be worth checking the wiring for problems between the mains lead connection to the fridge and the mains power on switch power input connections , as with the 230v duel pole switch off , power should not be going past it to the 230v element or anywhere else. (unless the switch is faulty or its wiring altered )

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheBig1]

Ok , then It would be worth checking the wiring for problems between the mains lead connection to the fridge and the mains power on switch power input connections , as with the 230v duel pole switch off , power should not be going past it to the 230v element or anywhere else. (unless the switch is faulty or its wiring altered )

The original post states that it trips when switching the fridge on. A classic symptom of a short circuit element

The advice above of checking the element with a multimeter is the simplest way to prove or disprove the element. It takes under a minute to take the wires off and measure. Take a photo before disconnecting anything and make sure the van is unplugged from the hook up

If it is the element, then you are half way to swapping it out anyway. The element slides up and out of the side of the chimney, and goes back the same way. Places that do it for you, charge so much because of the time taking the fridge out and putting it back. But it is usually doable through the fridge vents with the fridge just pulled forward 6 inches. Quickest one I ever did was 20 minutes from walking up to the van till the fridge was on and working. Now if it was a tec tower, they can be an absolute Bstard, and it's heavy

 

[kenchil14]

Wow thank you very much for your extensive reply and taking your time for me .much appreciated I will carefully follow your advice tomorrow Kind Regards Ken.

Wow thank you very much for your extensive reply and taking your time for me .much appreciated I will carefully follow your advice tomorrow Kind Regards Ken.

Wow thank you very much for your extensive reply and taking your time for me .much appreciated I will carefully follow your advice tomorrow Kind Regards Ken.

The original post states that it trips when switching the fridge on. A classic symptom of a short circuit element

The advice above of checking the element with a multimeter is the simplest way to prove or disprove the element. It takes under a minute to take the wires off and measure. Take a photo before disconnecting anything and make sure the van is unplugged from the hook up

If it is the element, then you are half way to swapping it out anyway. The element slides up and out of the side of the chimney, and goes back the same way. Places that do it for you, charge so much because of the time taking the fridge out and putting it back. But it is usually doable through the fridge vents with the fridge just pulled forward 6 inches. Quickest one I ever did was 20 minutes from walking up to the van till the fridge was on and working. Now if it was a tec tower, they can be an absolute Bstard, and it's heavy

Hi

Odd as it may sound, but just moving the fridge from it's cupboard has been known to cause an element to fail. They go either open circuit or short circuit. That would trip the circuit as described with no visible symptoms

HI ,you were spot on about the element thank you so much

 

[kenchil14]

Select continuity on your meter. This may be diode symbol and press a button to select continuity. If not easier to select Ohms/resistance. Check with the meter Leeds, touch them and on ohms when they touch, it will display 000 or 0, meaning no resistance, full continuity.

Now on the fridge with the 230v wires disconnected, brown, blue yellow- green. Check with the meter between connections of the element brown to yellow, then blue to yellow, This should not give you any continuity no 000’s. If it does element is shorting to earth. If it doesn’t the element is good, fault may be upstream. Connect the 230v wires to the element, with the Moho rcd off and unplugged from ehu. No power. Test the same for continuity from brown to yellow and blue to yellow. If all good, it means circuit is ok. Turn Moho rcd on, still ehu disconnected. Test again, if all good, your rcd is ok. Next step is your hook up lead. You can test that unplugged from the house. If that turns good, it may be the socket you plug in to. If fault still there upstream, from here on you’ll need a electrician to test your house circuit.

HI ,thanks for your help and teaching me how to diagnose the fault ,it was the element that had broken