Shautd ELB with B2B charging quirks Help! (1 Viewer)

[Portland]

We have a Frankia with the Shautd 220-2 ELB, I fitted a Vicron 30amp b2b for quick boost to leisure battery as the ELB only delivers 18.6 amps
The problem is the control panel shows discharge with motor running and so I have disconnected it foe safety.
I'm sure I have seen this before on this forumbut can't find it. Do any of you techno's give me a guide

 

[Lenny HB]

How have you connected the B2B via the EBL or direct to the batteries?

 

[Portland]

How have you connected the B2B via the EBL or direct to the batteries?

Direct to the batteries, I assume if you connect to the ELB it would reduce the charge to it's own output

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[JockandRita]

On our old Hymer with an EBL, (model number forgotten), and a Sterling 50A B2B fitted, the discharge shown on our panel analogue ammeter, was down to the fridge/freezer kicking in on 12v when the engine was running. Like you Portland, I was really concerned about such a high discharge reading, until someone more knowledgeable than myself with 12v electrics, demonstrated the cause of the discharge.

It's not asomething I have experienced on our current MH, with the CBE charging system, despite having fitted a Sterling 60A B2B.

HTH,

Jock.

 

[autorouter]

Direct to the batteries, I assume if you connect to the ELB it would reduce the charge to it's own output

Did you do anything to disable the split charge relay? Such as remove the 60A fuse on the starter battery supply to the EBL? Or disconnect the starter battery input at the back of the EBL at the heavy-duty terminal block?

 

[brynric]

A&N caravan services have some interesting articles on charging and Schaudt EBL. You might get some tips there.

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[Portland]

Did you do anything to disable the split charge relay? Such as remove the 60A fuse on the starter battery supply to the EBL? Or disconnect the starter battery input at the back of the EBL at the heavy-duty terminal block?

No, I didn't remove the split charge fuse, I just removed the fuse from the link between the B2B and positive on the battery.

 

[Lenny HB]

No, I didn't remove the split charge fuse, I just removed the fuse from the link between the bubble and positive on the battery.

???
It's the 50 amp fuse by the starter battery you need to remove.

 

[Pausim]

What you have done is create a loop back through the relay in the EBL. The effect of this loop is that the higher voltage of your B2B boosted leisure battery is feeding back through the EBL relay and going round in circles. At 30A you could feed it through the EBL.

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[autorouter]

There is a shunt inside the EBL220 that previously measured all the amps into and out of the leisure battery, so it kept an account of its state of charge. If the new B2B connection goes straight to the leisure battery, and not through the EBL, then that shunt can't take its amps into account. So if for example the B2B is putting in 30A and a habitation load is taking 5A, the shunt will tell you there's a 5A drain, not a 25A net charging input.

Some fit another battery monitor shunt on the leisure battery negative to give them accurate information. Some just live with it. I don't think the EBL actually does anything with the erroneous information, it's just a display for information only.

No, I didn't remove the split charge fuse, I just removed the fuse from the link between the bubble and positive on the battery.

Disabling the split charge relay is a separate matter. It is important that the path from the starter battery, through the split charge relay to the leisure battery, is cut off by some method. Otherwise the input and output of the B2B is shorted,and the B2B will have no effect. There are several options.

On the EBL220, the thick wire from the starter battery goes to a big terminal block at the back of the EBL. That wire carries the amps for the split charge relay, and doesn't do anything else. So an easy option is to remove the big 60A fuse on that wire at the starter battery end.

All the other functions like the fridge power when driving, the starter battery charging on hookup, and starter battery voltage measurement is done through a different wire that goes to one of the connectors on the front of the EBL, so they will still work OK.

 

[autorouter]

???

I'd have thought you'd be fluent in Spelchek by now. I think 'bubble' = busbar.

 

[OldCodger]

A&N caravan services have some interesting articles on charging and Schaudt EBL. You might get some tips there.

I have the same “not charging hab battery while driving “ problem** - and i don’t have a B2B. Mine is an EBL 223 which seems very similar to the 220. A&N thought it was likely the split charger relay in the Electrobloc was duff. I haven’t had a chance to do some of the testing they suggested. He was very helpful by email

** Interestingly my hab batteries will charge at 20/30 amps when i first start the engine - but it seems to cut out after a short while. Wierd. Sadly the fridge running off the hab batteries then discharges them meaning i arrive with flatter batteries than when i started

Portland If you do find out whats up please post!

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[Lenny HB]

I'd have thought you'd be fluent in Spelchek by now. I think 'bubble' = busbar.

With my dyslexia

 

[Lenny HB]

At 30A you could feed it through the EBL.

Best not to if the van is a few years old, carbon build up on the relay contacts reduces the charge rate.

 

[nicholsong]

We have a Frankia with the Shautd 220-2 ELB, I fitted a Vicron 30amp b2b for quick boost to leisure battery as the ELB only delivers 18.6 amps
The problem is the control panel shows discharge with motor running and so I have disconnected it foe safety.
I'm sure I have seen this before on this forumbut can't find it. Do any of you techno's give me a guide

On our old Hymer with an EBL, (model number forgotten), and a Sterling 50A B2B fitted, the discharge shown on our panel analogue ammeter, was down to the fridge/freezer kicking in on 12v when the engine was running. Like you Portland, I was really concerned about such a high discharge reading, until someone more knowledgeable than myself with 12v electrics, demonstrated the cause of the discharge.

It's not something I have experienced on our current MH, with the CBE charging system, despite having fitted a Sterling 60A B2B.

HTH,

Jock.

I have had the same problem since we fitted the Stirling B2B direct to the batteries. As Jock explained it is no danger, just an inconvenience. Although the ammeter is showing a discharge I know that is not the case because I can see the higher voltage rate.

As autorouter said the problem can be overcome by fitting a shunt but I have not bothered with the expense and have had no problem in 6 years.

I did speak to Stirling about the problem and they said it was known but they had been unable to make their equipment compatible with EBL, due to different design geometry.

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[Pausim]

I have had the same problem since we fitted the Stirling B2B direct to the batteries. As Jock explained it is no danger, just an inconvenience. Although the ammeter is showing a discharge I know that is not the case because I can see the higher voltage rate.

As autorouter said the problem can be overcome by fitting a shunt but I have not bothered with the expense and have had no problem in 6 years.

I did speak to Stirling about the problem and they said it was known but they had been unable to make their equipment compatible with EBL, due to different design geometry.

Not much point in having a B2B if it is not doing it’s job, the voltage may be up but the amps are going elsewhere.

 

[Portland]

I'd have thought you'd be fluent in Spelchek by now. I think 'bubble' = busbar.

Not in my post! It's spell check word for B2B.
Since edited.
Thanks

 

[autorouter]

Does the display panel show the voltages of the starter battery and leisure battery? Or is it one of those with a few coloured LEDs instead of a numerical display? If you want to investigate this problem, you are going to need some way to read the voltages of the batteries.

If the display panel shows voltages, these should still be accurate, even though the Amps and SOC are not at all accurate. Or you could use a multimeter on the battery terminals.

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[JockandRita]

It's not asomething I have experienced on our current MH, with the CBE charging system, despite having fitted a Sterling 60A B2B.

Correction...........of sorts.

Our current, (pun intended ) CBE setup does show a discharge of around 16A - 17A at the LCD panel, when the the Fridge/Freezer kicks in. I am informed that with the CBE system, the F/F takes it's power from the leisure batteries, rather than from the alternator. So despite the B2B banging in up to 60A, the panel shows a discharge of amps.

Not much point in having a B2B if it is not doing it’s job, the voltage may be up but the amps are going elsewhere.

Pausim. Based on my post above Paul, I am happy that the B2B is definitely doing it's job, and probably was on the old Hymer Schaudt EBL system, whilst showing a discharge on the analogue ammeter.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Portland]

Does the display panel show the voltages of the starter battery and leisure battery? Or is it one of those with a few coloured LEDs instead of a numerical display? If you want to investigate this problem, you are going to need some way to read the voltages of the batteries.

If the display panel shows voltages, these should still be accurate, even though the Amps and SOC are not at all accurate. Or you could use a multimeter on the battery terminals.

Panel is the Shaudt 221, it shows numerical display both leisure and starter voltage plus leisure Ah and discharge/charge.
It is a temperamental unit and often needs resetting.

 

[autorouter]

Panel is the Shaudt 221, it shows numerical display both leisure and starter voltage plus leisure Ah and discharge/charge.
It is a temperamental unit and often needs resetting.

First look at the voltages of the starter and leisure batteries when there is no charging, from solar, hookup or the engine.

Then start the engine and look at the voltages again. The starter battery should go up to over 13.0V, probably about 14.5V, which shows that the alternator is charging it.

If the leisure battery goes to over 13.0V, then something is charging it. If, as you said, you have removed the fuse on the B2B input, then it must be getting charge from the alternator, and that means the split charge relay is still enabled and active. You could remove the 60A fuse near the starter battery, and that should cut off the path through the split charge relay and stop the leisure battery from being charged.

When that is done, check the voltage again to make sure that the charging has stopped. Next, try inserting the fuse for the B2B. When the engine starts, the leisure battery voltage should rise to over 13.0V, maybe up to 14.5V. If it does, then the B2B is charging the leisure battery.

If the panel is showing a drain from the leisure battery, but its voltage is over 13.0V, then that is an example of the erroneous amps drain reading I was talking about in post #10. Best to ignore it, your leisure battery is being charged OK. If it really was discharging, the voltage would be 12.8V or less, probably more like 12.5V.

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[JockandRita]

If the panel is showing a drain from the leisure battery, but its voltage is over 13.0V, then that is an example of the erroneous amps drain reading I was talking about in post #10. Best to ignore it, your leisure battery is being charged OK.

That's exactly the situation related in my two previous posts above. Very worrying initially, but acceptable after reliable info received from those in the know.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Portland]

First look at the voltages of the starter and leisure batteries when there is no charging, from solar, hookup or the engine.

Then start the engine and look at the voltages again. The starter battery should go up to over 13.0V, probably about 14.5V, which shows that the alternator is charging it.

If the leisure battery goes to over 13.0V, then something is charging it. If, as you said, you have removed the fuse on the B2B input, then it must be getting charge from the alternator, and that means the split charge relay is still enabled and active. You could remove the 60A fuse near the starter battery, and that should cut off the path through the split charge relay and stop the leisure battery from being charged.

When that is done, check the voltage again to make sure that the charging has stopped. Next, try inserting the fuse for the B2B. When the engine starts, the leisure battery voltage should rise to over 13.0V, maybe up to 14.5V. If it does, then the B2B is charging the leisure battery.

If the panel is showing a drain from the leisure battery, but its voltage is over 13.0V, then that is an example of the erroneous amps drain reading I was talking about in post #10. Best to ignore it, your leisure battery is being charged OK. If it really was discharging, the voltage would be 12.8V or less, probably more like 12.5V.

Thanks for that Autorouter, Lennie HB had said this also, I will do this as soon as we get back to the MH and post what happens.