Self build -to sell -too pricey ? (1 Viewer)

[Terry]

All of the businesses I know who started off in the mainstream vehicle conversion market, soon found a niche in order to survive. If I were you Terry I would find that niche now. Competing with established house hold names is a tough thing to do but there is bound to be areas of this market that are either not being serviced or run badly!

Snowbird is spot on as far as I'm concerned, look for a USP - vintage/ retro build, disability adapted motorhomes etc.

Of course with a motorhome adapted for disabled use, I don't think VAT is charged (I may well be wrong of course), If I am right then that's 20% off your sell price for a start.

Build a standard van and you're product is going to be compared to the main builders. Make something fairly unique and you will quickly become the main builder.

Whatever you do, good luck:thumb:

VAT wash your mouth out that will become a nightmare for later
I think if I go down turning it into a business then yes one off builds-perhaps to order will defiantly be on the cards simply because a order would take the gamble out of selling it :thumb: Who knows ? do I want to start up again ? all I know is I don't want to start up double glazing again Will see how it pans out I have no plans along them lines as yet -even thought of selling up and going full time -sod everyone else they will have a van to sell when I am dead not quite as much as the house but who knows
terry

 

[TheBig1]

there used to be a tax liability converting a van under 5 years old, is this still true? i have converted several over the years, always to a high spec as they were for our use. never had an issue selling on provided they were 2-3k below the equivalent "known brand" van of the same age and spec.

there are a few small scale converters about, but most target the motocross and biking community. a quick search of ebay will show what prices they ask, but once over the £20k mark they are hard to sell. i heard about a one man band type business a while back desperate to sell a van built for a customer who couldnt afford it. from what i recall it took about a year to sell at a knock down price hurting both the builder and original customer who had thousands of pounds already paid into it in stage payments and deposit. the original customer owned the van, the builder the conversion. this just illustrates one pitfall, there are many others

as for converting for surfers or sports enthusiasts, they often have little spare cash for such projects. we live near a popular surfing/windsurfing spot and see loads of old vans about near the beach with really basic rough plywood conversions. not sure theres much money in it generally, but there may be a few can afford something decent

converting to suit disabilities is a real possibility, but theres a couple of companies tried it and failed

i dont want to sound all doom and gloom, but theres a lot more to consider than just price. wouldnt want to see such a good idea fall flat

i personally think theres a hole in the market for somebody to carry out refurb/refits on older quality vans. plenty of people with lovely classic campers would love modern facilities like a flush toilet and better beds/seating. currently very few people are interested in this type of work

whatever you decide, good luck with it:thumb:

 

[JJ]

I for one would much, much rather buy a van converted by Terry (and Paul) than from a "named" converter...

Any guests/members looking on here for a panel van conversion should definitely check out what he can do for you and compare with other brands... imo.

JJ :Cool:

PS. Should this (genuine) recommendation lead to a sale my commission is one Fray Bentos Steak and Ale Pie per van.

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[Ralph-n-Bev]

Terry, when Ralph decides to do our conversion , not for a few years yet , I hope your still doing them.
He's up to everything bar the cabinet making. This he says is a specialists job to get a professional finish.
He'd gladly pay someone to do an excellent job for him. Were in Wrenthorpe so not too far away either. The problem we'll have is not being able to get away every other weekend whilst being without a van. Plus him having to work , and not having the time to do it all at once.
But we are both looking forward to having a PVC and getting to those out of the places , larger vans can't go.

 

[Snowbird]

All of the businesses I know who started off in the mainstream vehicle conversion market, soon found a niche in order to survive. If I were you Terry I would find that niche now. Competing with established house hold names is a tough thing to do but there is bound to be areas of this market that are either not being serviced or run badly!

Snowbird is spot on as far as I'm concerned, look for a USP - vintage/ retro build, disability adapted motorhomes etc.

Of course with a motorhome adapted for disabled use, I don't think VAT is charged (I may well be wrong of course), If I am right then that's 20% off your sell price for a start.

Build a standard van and you're product is going to be compared to the main builders. Make something fairly unique and you will quickly become the main builder.

Whatever you do, good luck:thumb:

Strangely enough Doc and myself were discussing exactly that only tonight. Its impossible, well almost to get a disabled motorhome built to his requirements, unless talking mega money. He loves his Winibago, BUT as a touring van its the next best thing to useless. Its great for what he is doing now, sitting on site for a few months, but if he wants to tour, which I believe he does, then it becomes a problem because of its size. He is a single traveller and a purpose built or converted motorhome under 7 metres would be the perfect solution. He does not need 2 couches or even a chair. He does need a wetroom shower and low bed. The rest is only for show. The problem with bespoke disabled motorhomes is that they are built for 2 people, one being the driver and the other being the disabled person. The disabled controls would be fitted by a specialist, but the floorplan could be built to order. If for example a good quality older van could be found and converted at a reasonable price then am sure there is a market in the disability field. I know you have experience in this Terry and you know what is required. A single disabled traveller does not need couches and chairs, what they do need is a wide uncluttered floorplan with wetroom shower and toilet, and everything at a reachable level. Also some sort of chair lift, which again would be fitted by a specialist. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well and am sure it will give you pleasure in the design and build. As long as you do not expect to make a fortune and are happy with a good wage, then you will succeed in doing something you enjoy. Thats far more important than making loadsa money :thumb:.

 

[Terry]

there used to be a tax liability converting a van under 5 years old, is this still true? i have converted several over the years, always to a high spec as they were for our use. never had an issue selling on provided they were 2-3k below the equivalent "known brand" van of the same age and spec.

there are a few small scale converters about, but most target the motocross and biking community. a quick search of ebay will show what prices they ask, but once over the £20k mark they are hard to sell. i heard about a one man band type business a while back desperate to sell a van built for a customer who couldnt afford it. from what i recall it took about a year to sell at a knock down price hurting both the builder and original customer who had thousands of pounds already paid into it in stage payments and deposit. the original customer owned the van, the builder the conversion. this just illustrates one pitfall, there are many others

as for converting for surfers or sports enthusiasts, they often have little spare cash for such projects. we live near a popular surfing/windsurfing spot and see loads of old vans about near the beach with really basic rough plywood conversions. not sure theres much money in it generally, but there may be a few can afford something decent

converting to suit disabilities is a real possibility, but theres a couple of companies tried it and failed

i dont want to sound all doom and gloom, but theres a lot more to consider than just price. wouldnt want to see such a good idea fall flat

i personally think theres a hole in the market for somebody to carry out refurb/refits on older quality vans. plenty of people with lovely classic campers would love modern facilities like a flush toilet and better beds/seating. currently very few people are interested in this type of work

whatever you decide, good luck with it:thumb:

Was not looking to go into surfing vans etc- just to do a nice conversion that someone will pay for :thumb: and yes I would consider converting one to order,that way I have nothing to gamble on simply because it would be sold before built That can all come later :thumb: As things stand I will be making a decision in the next couple of weeks be it a 15k selling van or 22k I was not and still not sure that a van at 22k would sell hence my original options of 1/2/3/ and value of everyone's opinions at this stage :thumb:

I for one would much, much rather buy a van converted by Terry (and Paul) than from a "named" converter...

Any guests/members looking on here for a panel van conversion should definitely check out what he can do for you and compare with other brands... imo.

JJ :Cool:

PS. Should this (genuine) recommendation lead to a sale my commission is one Fray Bentos Steak and Ale Pie per van.

Only seen Steak pies around for a while JJ I can always rustle up a homemade one for you :thumb: but that may spoil your enjoyment of the FB ones Who knows I may get max injected and call down to see you at QMJ after I have finished the build

Terry, when Ralph decides to do our conversion , not for a few years yet , I hope your still doing them.
He's up to everything bar the cabinet making. This he says is a specialists job to get a professional finish.
He'd gladly pay someone to do an excellent job for him. Were in Wrenthorpe so not too far away either. The problem we'll have is not being able to get away every other weekend whilst being without a van. Plus him having to work , and not having the time to do it all at once.
But we are both looking forward to having a PVC and getting to those out of the places , larger vans can't go.

I may well be still doing them --got lots to think about :thumb:
terry

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[Terry]

Strangely enough Doc and myself were discussing exactly that only tonight. Its impossible, well almost to get a disabled motorhome built to his requirements, unless talking mega money. He loves his Winibago, BUT as a touring van its the next best thing to useless. Its great for what he is doing now, sitting on site for a few months, but if he wants to tour, which I believe he does, then it becomes a problem because of its size. He is a single traveller and a purpose built or converted motorhome under 7 metres would be the perfect solution. He does not need 2 couches or even a chair. He does need a wetroom shower and low bed. The rest is only for show. The problem with bespoke disabled motorhomes is that they are built for 2 people, one being the driver and the other being the disabled person. The disabled controls would be fitted by a specialist, but the floorplan could be built to order. If for example a good quality older van could be found and converted at a reasonable price then am sure there is a market in the disability field. I know you have experience in this Terry and you know what is required. A single disabled traveller does not need couches and chairs, what they do need is a wide uncluttered floorplan with wetroom shower and toilet, and everything at a reachable level. Also some sort of chair lift, which again would be fitted by a specialist. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well and am sure it will give you pleasure in the design and build. As long as you do not expect to make a fortune and are happy with a good wage, then you will succeed in doing something you enjoy. Thats far more important than making loadsa money :thumb:.

If I was looking to make loads I would be charging a lot more than 5k profit 5k between 2 is only 500 quid each a week on a five week build -if it runs over it fast becomes less but as we/I only plan on weekends at the moment it may well take longer I could ask my mate to pack his job in and work all week but that would be a gamble I would not ask him to do at this stage nor would I want him to Just dipping my toe in the water so to speak :thumb:
All sorts going through my head at the moment -what I don't want to happen is what money I have to run out after a couple of yrs forcing me to go back to work proper just yet If it has to be then so be it -just too early to make that call --
Doc buy a van and plan what you want :thumb: I have never been stuck on a job yet
Something like Dave's RMB would last a lifetime and not cost the earth to convert
terry

 

[Scout]

Terry

If you “make to order” its “a business” with all the pitfalls of a business (you know what I mean)

If you make it for yourself and decide to sell it after using it for a few nights it’s just another private sale.:thumb:

 

[Popeye]

Hi Terry, both my sons run VW camper vans.

The eldest one wanted to self build and the total cost for a young Diesel VW and all the gear took the price to around £22,000.

I ended up purchasing an Autosleeper VW Trident with less than 30,000 miles for £19,000 and being a brand vehicle has a much greater resale value than a self-build.

I'm sure the quality, whilst good would not measure up to your workmanship, but I'll bet I could sell it quicker and for less money than anything you self build.

Go down Snowbirds route, I'd even be interested myself......best of luck. Griff :thumb:

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[Terry]

Terry

If you “make to order” its “a business” with all the pitfalls of a business (you know what I mean)

If you make it for yourself and decide to sell it after using it for a few nights it’s just another private sale.:thumb:

Cheers :thumb:I realize that and all the pitfalls/implcations that go with it hence the option 3 again or I may find after a couple of nights it does not meet my requirements I have a lot to sort out at the moment -again taking a couple of weeks to plan/sort what I want to do BIG changes/decisions to make once again Thought I had retired at 53 now 57 and it's all gone tits up
terry

 

[Terry]

Hi Terry, both my sons run VW camper vans.

The eldest one wanted to self build and the total cost for a young Diesel VW and all the gear took the price to around £22,000.

I ended up purchasing an Autosleeper VW Trident with less than 30,000 miles for £19,000 and being a brand vehicle has a much greater resale value than a self-build.

I'm sure the quality, whilst good would not measure up to your workmanship, but I'll bet I could sell it quicker and for less money than anything you self build.

Go down Snowbirds route, I'd even be interested myself......best of luck. Griff :thumb:

ALL options are open at this time :thumb:Refurbishing a older van is is there it's just that such as RMBs are usually in good nick and as such expensive to buy.
The last van I refurbished took us about 2 weeks to gut and renew everything boarding /wiring etc using the original cooker,boiler etc Just gave it all new upholstery and a well needed facelift while curing a soaking wet problem (new roof) I used that for a yr and sold it for a 3.5k profit
terry

 

[Snowbird]

ALL options are open at this time :thumb:Refurbishing a older van is is there it's just that such as RMBs are usually in good nick and as such expensive to buy.
The last van I refurbished took us about 2 weeks to gut and renew everything boarding /wiring etc using the original cooker,boiler etc Just gave it all new upholstery and a well needed facelift while curing a soaking wet problem (new roof) I used that for a yr and sold it for a 3.5k profit
terry

Granted Terry, RMBs are not as cheap to buy, but they do not come with inherent damp problems like other older vans because of the way they are constructed. The woodwork hardly ever needs refurbishment as its solid wood, even cupboard catches are either solid brass or aluminium. Its generally a case of making sure all the appliances work and replacing an older fridge and TV. The upholstery is usually not worn but benefits from renewing just to bring up to date. Paint is not normally a problem as they are fibreglass with thick gellcoat. I can find them and bring them to you, but as am no longer as young and fit as I used to be and as we have now started to tour again I do not have the time to spend refurbishing and selling on. There is definitely a niche market for this type of van. Everybody and his uncle are converting panel vans and its a cut throat business whereas how many people specialise in older quality built vans. I remember years ago a company that imported Safari Treks from the States, and that's all they imported. They were know as the people to buy a Trek from and charged accordingly for there expertease.

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[Terry]

I can manage that OK :thumb:YOU find and deliver I will fix up and sell --50/50
I can do them while converting the PVC
terry