Schengen travel from 1 Jan 2021

[DABurleigh]

Sorry if this has already been discussed at length, but it's new to me. I had (wishfully) thought that the Schengen stopwatch would start counting from 1 Jan, but apparently it's already been going since early July this year! See screenshot of Gov.UK, primarily the second bullet.

 

[bellabee]

I had thought the same as you. This could be a problem for some .
We're still undecided as to what to do this winter. We're watching the Covid situation, but wouldn't be leaving the UK until Feb, so we will qualify for the 90 days .

 

[busby]

Where does it mention July 2020? BUSBY.

 

[Badknee]

Not true, I took this from the Spanish consulate website. Our government don’t know wether it’s arse is punched or bored!

 

[DABurleigh]

Where does it mention July 2020? BUSBY.

If you had been in Schengen since early July come New Years Day you'd have to be home waiting to around May to do anything much there again.

Dave

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[2657]

I don't read it that way, the article clearly states the rules change on the 1st January 2021.
In my opinion the second bullet point is making clear how the rolling 180 days work after the rule change.

 

[The Wino]

I don't read it that way, the article clearly states the rules change on the 1st January 2021.
In my opinion the second bullet point is making clear how the rolling 180 days work after the rule change.

But the fact 2 people can read it different ways means it's another of the long list of unknowns.

 

[Boringfrog]

Love the sentence, check with the Spanish embassy for what type of visa you will need "If Any".....

 

[busby]

Still not Jan 1 st yet...Still talking to be done..Still optomistic

 

[ctc]

Easy, do the same as Stanley and Nigel, apply for EU passports.

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[busby]

Easy, do the same as Stanley and Nigel, apply for EU passports.

Mega bucks,,BUSBY.

 

[bobandjanie]

I think EU passport means applying for Citizenship in that country, residents of EU countries like us are under the same rules as the UK, I believe residents with dual nationality are not under the 90 in 180 rule, but are still restricted to under 183 days a year rule, maybe Richard gus-lopez can confirm. Bob.

 

[DABurleigh]

Not true, I took this from the Spanish consulate website. Our government don’t know wether it’s arse is punched or bored!

View attachment 428796

This is not inconsistent with the Gov.uk quote. This just points out that something might be agreed between the EU and UK to cover 1 Jan 2021 onwards. The Gov. UK quote applies in the legal default when no new overriding law is agreed and in place.

Dave

 

[gus-lopez]

the other point the 2nd bullet point doesn't address is that if you are already there you are not
"travelling to" ?
I also think it is merely pointing out how it works in the future rather than what would happen.
As if nothing changes & there is no agreement then up intil 31st december an Uk citizen is an Eu citizen. After you are a looky -looky man with a different set of rules that only applied from the 1st January.

I think EU passport means applying for Citizenship in that country, residents of EU countries like us are under the same rules as the UK, I believe residents with dual nationality are not under the 90 in 180 rule, but are still restricted to under 183 days a year rule, maybe Richard gus-lopez can confirm. Bob.

Yes I think that is what they mean.
Yes even as permanent residents we are still the same as a spaniard in that we can't stay elsewhere in another eu state for more than 90 days but,according to my reading of the spanish law on the 'Moncloa', we can then pop next door for another 89 days.& so on.
the other benefit is with the new TIE card it states that we can travel in to other EU states using that alone with no need for a passport. Doubt it will get us into the UK though I might try it next time I travel.

 

[chaser]

Who is going to check up how long you have been there, I think they have far more important things to do than see how long two old duffers in a motorhome have been there.

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[sallylillian]

Who is going to check up how long you have been there, I think they have far more important things to do than see how long two old duffers in a motorhome have been there.

Speak for yourself, me I'm still 17

 

[chaser]

Speak for yourself, me I'm still 17

You will only have to flash a leg at any official then and they will forget what they stopped you for.

 

[busby]

Who is going to check up how long you have been there, I think they have far more important things to do than see how long two old duffers in a motorhome have been there.

Your passport is swiped as you enter Shengin Zone from. UK and swiped again when you leave,,ie Morrocco,Turkey or UK .Computers will do the rest..BUSBY.

 

[chaser]

Your passport is swiped as you enter Shengin Zone from. UK and swiped again when you leave,,ie Morrocco,Turkey or UK .Computers will do the rest..BUSBY.

So what are they going to do when you check in with 100 days on your passport?

 

[busby]

So what are they going to do when you check in with 100 days on your passport?

I don't know but if you want to be the test case let us know..Would think either a fine or a ban.
We will see I 2021.BUSBY.

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[Tykatem]

So what are they going to do when you check in with 100 days on your passport?

If you are being tempted to do such thing, you should just know the following things:

First thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.

Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be a fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.

What Are the Consequences of Overstaying in the Schengen Area?

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it. To many, the 90-day...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Pete

 

[JockandRita]

If you had been in Schengen since early July come New Years Day you'd have to be home waiting to around May to do anything much there again.

Dave

If that is the case Dave, that means we've only got 66 x days left in the 180, having just returned from Germany, but what action are the Spanish or French Authorities likely to take, should our winter trip to the sun take us over the 90 x days?
I thought it always was only 90 x days in any 180, for us Brits anyway, but just that no one ever checked. After 1st Jan, we might see a different reaction from them.

Cheers,

Jock.

Edited................ Just seen Tykatem's link, in reply to the same question.

 

[DABurleigh]

In the event of no further EU/UK agreement and subsequent law, or unilateral EU 'interpretation/clarification' of existing EU law, then UK travellers, either already in the Schengen area on 31 Dec 2020, or entering the Schengen area for the first time in 2021 on or after 1 Jan 2021, will either have:
a) Zero days on their 180 day rolling counter, irrespective of the number of days already spent there in late 2020, or;
b) the N days already spent there in 2020 within the last 180 days.

On the face of it either seems an entirely feasible interpretation of existing law, but I haven't seen anything both authoritative and unambiguous to this layman as to which applies. Gov.uk is usually both, but here obviously remains open to challenge or at least wishful thinking.

Dave

 

[2657]

In the event of no further EU/UK agreement and subsequent law, or unilateral EU 'interpretation/clarification' of existing EU law, then UK travellers, either already in the Schengen area on 31 Dec 2020, or entering the Schengen area for the first time in 2021 on or after 1 Jan 2021, will either have:
a) Zero days on their 180 day rolling counter, irrespective of the number of days already spent there in late 2020, or;
b) the N days already spent there in 2020 within the last 180 days.

On the face of it either seems an entirely feasible interpretation of existing law, but I haven't seen anything both authoritative and unambiguous to this layman as to which applies. Gov.uk is usually both, but here obviously remains open to challenge or at least wishful thinking.

Dave

If the second scenario is in force then anyone already in the Schengen area for more than 90 days on the 1st January will automatically be liable to a fine, expulsion or other punishments.

 

[Badknee]

Love the sentence, check with the Spanish embassy for what type of visa you will need "If Any".....

I rang the Spanish Embassy and they told me to contact the Spanish consulate see post #4 above.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

So what are they going to do when you check in with 100 days on your passport?

Impound your van till you pay the fine.

 

[Badknee]

This is not inconsistent with the Gov.uk quote. This just points out that something might be agreed between the EU and UK to cover 1 Jan 2021 onwards. The Gov. UK quote applies in the legal default when no new overriding law is agreed and in place.

Dave

This is consistent with Spanish rules. Read it again it says till 31st Dec 2020. The uk government can’t agree what day it is never mind anything else. If Spain says we can stay as long as we like up to 31/12/2020 that’s good enough for me.

 

[nicholsong]

In the event of no further EU/UK agreement and subsequent law, or unilateral EU 'interpretation/clarification' of existing EU law, then UK travellers, either already in the Schengen area on 31 Dec 2020, or entering the Schengen area for the first time in 2021 on or after 1 Jan 2021, will either have:
a) Zero days on their 180 day rolling counter, irrespective of the number of days already spent there in late 2020, or;
b) the N days already spent there in 2020 within the last 180 days.

On the face of it either seems an entirely feasible interpretation of existing law, but I haven't seen anything both authoritative and unambiguous to this layman as to which applies. Gov.uk is usually both, but here obviously remains open to challenge or at least wishful thinking.

Dave

Dave

Firstly good to see your name around.

I think that your b) cannot be applied because during the Transition Period up to the end of 2020 UK Citizens still enjoy the right of Free Movement, so counting those days in 2020 in Schengen would go counter to that application of Free Movement.

I am living in a Schengen country officially since Aug 2019 and am in the process of applying for Residency,but the Polish government will not process the application till after 1st Jan, 'because we do not know what the rules will be'. If days from 1st July counted to 90/180 I would become a Schengen overstayer after tomorrow. I think not.

As far as knowing the penalties for non-EU Citizens overstaying, one only has to look at what has been done to Americans and Australians who have done it in the past. The British will be in the same category without rule changes.

Geoff

 

[DABurleigh]

This is consistent with Spanish rules. Read it again it says till 31st Dec 2020. The uk government can’t agree what day it is never mind anything else. If Spain says we can stay as long as we like up to 31/12/2020 that’s good enough for me.

We are entirely in agreement on this point. My OP is entirely about what rules apply in 2021.

Dave

 

[DABurleigh]

Dave

Firstly good to see your name around.

I think that your b) cannot be applied because during the Transition Period up to the end of 2020 UK Citizens still enjoy the right of Free Movement, so counting those days in 2020 in Schengen would go counter to that application of Free Movement.

I am living in a Schengen country officially since Aug 2019 and am in the process of applying for Residency,but the Polish government will not process the application till after 1st Jan, 'because we do not know what the rules will be'. If days from 1st July counted to 90/180 I would become a Schengen overstayer after tomorrow. I think not.

As far as knowing the penalties for non-EU Citizens overstaying, one only has to look at what has been done to Americans and Australians who have done it in the past. The British will be in the same category without rule changes.

Geoff

Geoff,

I don't understand how you would become an overstayer after tomorrow. Nothing in either my a) or b) constrains anyone's freedoms in 2020. What's up for interpretation is UK citizens' freedoms in 2021. I am nevertheless heartened by the estimation by those on this thread of the EU's political generosity towards us when they have total authority to interpret EU law however they find convenient for them!

Dave

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