Save money on gas

[Wildman]

Why pay £16 for a 6kg gas bottle when you can do it yourself for around £6. Gas refill adapters have been around for a few years, now you can get one with overfill protection thereby answering all the major objections voiced in the past

<Link to Gas refill adapter on eBay>

needless to say I have no connection with the firm at all.
Check it out and start saving money right away.
:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks for that..

good to see it now has over fill protection .. :thumb:

Jim

 

[Douglas]

Sound good, however looking at the photograph I cannot see how an overfill is prevented,

What I can see is a propane fitting , a stop tap and a refillable connector, I hope I am wrong as I would like one.

Doug...

 

[Wildman]

I have made enquiries as to how it works am awaiting reply. I have used one without overfill protection wih no problems for years but only refill an empty bottle. This incarnation claims to allow refilling of part used bottles.

 

[Geo]

You may find that the so called stop tap is indeed a blow off valve

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[Douglas]

You may find that the so called stop tap is indeed a blow off valve

If thats the case then I cant see the garage owners allow it to be used, if you remember when the gaslow bottles first came out the some of the gas stations would not allow them to be filled.

Doug.

 

[Terry]

Hi ALL already emailed the seller(a couple of weeks back) who claims it is fitted with a pressure sensing valve. Not sure how it would work but somebody with more intelligence than me may know
terry
Been using similar one for the last 3 yrs
HERE'S what I do
GAS ADAPTER
There are no joints, pipes, knuckles valves or floats to go wrong or leak, just a simple well engineered adapter that screws onto your bottle
Use a two bottle system ie 1 full to replace empty 1, just as you did years ago.
Remember to refill only total empty bottles to avoid overfilling.
Refill LPG bottles are only filled to 80% of total volume.
One litre of LPG weights ca. 500 grams.
13 kg bottle at 80% = 26 litres
6 kg bottle @ 80 % = 12 ltrs
3.9 kg bottle @ 80 % = 7.8 ltrs
Calor gas on there web site even say that bottles can be filled up to 87 % so this will allow for any difference in temperatures!!!!
Fasten the bottle in the van
Fit adapter
Open valve
Fit filling gun turning 90 degrees C,Wise and lock on/cock
Dispense required amount of gas (see above)
Close valve
Uncock turn 90 degrees anti CW,Disengage filling gun
Replace gun into holder and pay for fuel
Remove adapter and store for next use
If you cannot follow these simple instructions then do not buy a filling adapter and carry on paying through the nose for refill bottles!!!
If you can understand and follow the above then buy an adapter and start saving money ----
It has been discussed at depth on the other side and they are not recommended for use by the people who supply gas to forecourts, but as yet it is MY understanding that the jury is still out as to weather they are illegal to use in UK but are OK to use abroad
terry

edit, Roger have you seen my post --- Who was looking for a M/H? --could be a new BEAST on the moor --heehee

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Terry

That looks like the instructions given with the original valve sold on ebay, ... this one says ...

THIS ADAPTER LETS YOU KNOW WHEN BOTTLE IS FULL TO THE REQUIRED LIMIT NO GUESSING !!

WILL FILL PARTIALLY FULL BOTTLES

NO OTHER ADAPTER GIVES YOU THIS

I've also emailed for an explanation ..



I suspect as Geo suggested that it 'blows off' when it reaches a certain pressure..

 

[Terry]

Hi Jim this was his reply when asked if he could supply euro adapters and how it worked ???
and yes mine is the older one :thumb:
Hi Terry
Sorry the euro adapters are cheaper on EBAY than i can get them for.The LPG filling adapter as got a pressure sensor valve to tell you its at 80% full and to stop. Hope This helps Kind Regards

terry

 

[olley]

Hi IMHO its a load of cobblers, the gas pressure remains fairly constant while you refill and depends on temperature and rate of fill.

The Morrisons in Ipswich has a pressure gauge on their Autogas and until the float valve in my tank shuts off the pressure hardly alters.

Olley

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[scotjimland]

Hi IMHO its a load of cobblers, the gas pressure remains fairly constant while you refill and depends on temperature and rate of fill.

Hi Ian

tend to agree with you.. but your not filling a totally empty tank at zero pressure .. are you ?

an empty bottle will be at zero pressure, when filling, the pressure will rise until it equalises with the supply pressure, at which point the filling will stop .. this valve may be set at a slightly lower pressure to 'blow off' when it's around 80% full. but as you say the pressure is also dependant on temperature..

but if this seller cannot give a satisfactory explanation of how it works he should be reported to ebay for giving a misrepresentation of the item.. lets see his reply first..

Jim

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

Do any of you know how any of the equipment used to refill a gas bottle actually detects that its only 80% of its total capacatiy, or what ever % they use to goven it from over filling, as i would be interested in how the manufacturers equipment or gaslows etc actually work.

Just interested,

 

[olley]

Hi Ian

tend to agree with you.. but your not filling a totally empty tank at zero pressure .. are you ?

an empty bottle will be at zero pressure, when filling, the pressure will rise until it equalises with the supply pressure, at which point the filling will stop .. this valve may be set at a slightly lower pressure to 'blow off' when it's around 80% full. but as you say the pressure is also dependant on temperature..

but if this seller cannot give a satisfactory explanation of how it works he should be reported to ebay for giving a misrepresentation of the item.. lets see his reply first..

Jim

Hi Jim it doesn't work like that, as the liquid gas comes in it will, if their is zero pressure in the bottle vapourise until it reaches the condensate pressure of the gas, from then on the pressure will remain fairly constant as the gas vapour condensates to make room for the liquid gas coming in. (Around 180psi)

If you fill very quickly then the temperature in the bottle will slowly increase as the gas that's condensing loses heat (latent heat) turning into a liquid, and this will raise the condensation pressure of the gas. But I think its unlikely the gauge would be sensitive enough to measure this, also the condensation pressure will vary, depending on the temperature of the liquid gas being pumped in, so it would never be the same at two separate fuel stations. Certainly as the gas reached the top of the bottle the pressure would increase markedly, but at 80-85-90-95%?? how to judge??

That's my understanding of how it all works and why they all use a float to measure liquid level.

Olley

 

[sinbad1]

looks like a good idea ;but like others i can't see how this fitting can sense 80% full like olley says the gas pressure inside the tank unless empty remains fairly constant . if its dependant on the supply pressure i can't understand how it can detect any changes in pressure untill its full.

I may be wrong ;but we are not pressurising the gas bottles, just transfering a liquid from one tank to another so the only pressure is that of the gas and pressure change between supply and tank would only change when completely full.

Regards

Sorry posted before seeing your thread Olley;but you have explained it much better than i can

 

[Douglas]

Hi IMHO its a load of cobblers, the gas pressure remains fairly constant while you refill and depends on temperature and rate of fill.

The Morrisons in Ipswich has a pressure gauge on their Autogas and until the float valve in my tank shuts off the pressure hardly alters.

Olley

I go along this this, I can see the pressure rising if you were filling a tank with a float system, but as soon as the refilling stops the pressure will drop back to the natural pressure for the gas to remain liquid. Or if the bottle is heated up but then the pressure will rise until the relief valve blows.

Doug...

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[Terry]

Hi all, interesting stuff As said in my first post I don't see how it can tell 80 % full but if you stick to filling empty bottles as in first post they are indeed a very cost effective option :thumb:
Just to throw a little more mud on the murky situation while filling one of my empty bottles I could not get more than 4 ltrs in (should hold 7.8 ltrs) no matter how I tried-- it did not cause a problem just used it from half full then filled it full the next time
terry
edit Have you posted this to cause controversy Roger?are you bored? heehee

 

[Braunston]

Hi,

If its worked on a float type system then surely all bottles self refillable or not, would be fitted with this float type system, or do the manufacturers refill it by a different method does anyone know how the manufacturers do it


Hi Terry,

I have a Gaslow system fitted and have been getting similar results from what has shown to be an empty bottle i can't normally get any more than 14/15 litres in it and it should hold around 22L. I did speak to them about it quiet some time ago and they made some suggestions which didn't make much difference, has anyone else had similar problems, I didn't notice it at first because I never let the bottle empty, i always refilled before it actually ran out.

 

[scotjimland]

Hi,

If its worked on a float type system then surely all bottles self refillable or not, would be fitted with this float type system, or do the manufacturers refill it by a different method does anyone know how the manufacturers do it

Hi
Calor and others fill by weight...


Reply form ebay seller

Hi Jim
The ovefill is controlled by a gas pressure valve,
hope this helps,Thank You Regards

- ashley_sinclair

I've replied asking how this works exactly ..

 

[sinbad1]

Hi
Calor and others fill by weight...


Just a thought Jim, if the gas people do it by weight wouldn't it be easier to use digital bathroom scales. knowing the full gas bottle weight you could fill it correctly every time and doesn't have to be empty when you fill it,
Regards

 

[Terry]

Hi Sinbad, yes it would work but would you trust bathroom scales ? better to just fill empty ones using your brain and what is a very accurate dispenser, the pump at the garage :thumb: you could always use the scales to double check :thumb: The weight is on the neck of the bottle if memory serves me right.Also remember just because you can put say 12 ltrs in a 6 kg bottle there is nothing to stop you only putting 10 / 11 ltrs in :thumb:
terry

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[scotjimland]

Hi
Calor and others fill by weight...


Just a thought Jim, if the gas people do it by weight wouldn't it be easier to use digital bathroom scales. knowing the full gas bottle weight you could fill it correctly every time and doesn't have to be empty when you fill it,
Regards

If you went down that road it would be easier to use a fish weighing scale.. which is probably the safest way to do it .. if you don't like / trust digital you could buy the old fashion spring scale..

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[sinbad1]

Hi Sinbad, yes it would work but would you trust bathroom scales ? better to just fill empty ones using your brain and what is a very accurate dispenser, the pump at the garage :thumb: you could always use the scales to double check :thumb: The weight is on the neck of the bottle if memory serves me right.Also remember just because you can put say 12 ltrs in a 6 kg bottle there is nothing to stop you only putting 10 / 11 ltrs in :thumb:
terry

It was just a thought probably not practical; but actually i would swear by my digital bathroom scales , my partner swears at them, saying there's something wrong with them so she's not going to let me do it anyway

 

[sinbad1]

If you went down that road it would be easier to use a fish weighing scale.. which is probably the safest way to do it .. if you don't like / trust digital you could buy the old fashion spring scale..

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Thanks Jim the wife say's its ok to get one of those

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks Jim the wife say's its ok to get one of those

I wonder what she has in mind ...

 

[Terry]

I think they may object to you filling if they saw you using the scales
terry

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[olley]

Hi refilling bottles without a cut off valve of some sort sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

If your brains in gear ok. but what happens when its not? I have done some stupid things in my life as I expect we all have, and overfilling without a cut off valve would be so easy to do.

Then what? your in a petrol station with a gas bottle full to the brim, do you load it on board and drive somewhere were you can let some go, or do you vent it on the forecourt?

Olley

 

[scotjimland]

your in a petrol station with a gas bottle full to the brim, do you load it on board and drive somewhere were you can let some go, or do you vent it on the forecourt?

Olley

hmmm that's a tough one .. oh:... Motor- homer Simpson comes to mind


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[thehutchies]

Couldn't the transparent BP bottles be used, so that the level would be visible?

 

[Braunston]

Hi, Jim

Thanks for the info on the weight that makes sense.

How does it work when you are filling on the forecourt, is there a float or what stops the bottle overfilling in that situation. Whats the difference between a Refillable bottle and a normal one

Thanks
Braunston

Hi
Calor and others fill by weight...

 

[scotjimland]

Whats the difference between a Refillable bottle and a normal one
.

Hi Braunston

Sorry, I can't answer that.

I have an LPG tank, that has a float cut off valve, a level gauge and also a small bleed valve, this should be cracked open when filling until liquid comes out.. you should never depend on just one method of determining the 80% level.
Cut off valves can stick and level gauges can fail.. hence the bleed valve.. that's fool proof .. sounds dangerous but it's the method advised in the RV handbook..

Maybe someone with a Gaslow system can explain.. ?

Jim

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