running engine whilst static

movan

movan

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After the thread on Sorning the van, can you tell me something please.

I will need to go up and check on my van in outside storage in order to check no mice have decided to take up residence... but I need to start the engine to keep the engine battery up to scratch. I can't drive the vehicle round the farmbuildings, and if it is sorned cannot go on the main road... I read somewhere before DO NOT RUN YOUR ENGINE WITHOUT DRIVING THE VAN THINKING YOU ARE KEEPING THE BATTERY GOING .. and then it gave some reason to do with the oil in the engine I think... I can't remember ... Can you give me advice please if I can run the engine or will I be doing damage.. if the latter maybe I can't put it on Sorn after all. Thank you.
 
Not a good idea Joy ..

Running at tick-over speed can polish the cylinder walls, this can result in a loss of compression.. does the engine no good whatsoever..

also, if you don't get it up to running temperature you can get emulsion forming in the oil .. you may recall seeing it around the oil filling cap on older cars , we called it mayonnaise ..

Better to keep it taxed and go for a decent run every month or so.. or not at all.
 
Hi Joy you can simply leave it -or if you think you need to run it then leave it running for a good 15 mins simply to put back into the battery that you took out to start it -your solar should keep the battery charged and leaving the engine for a few (2/3 ) mths won't do it any harm -I have started engines that have been stood for yrs without problems :) Of course there will be someone come on who thinks you should run the engine every 2/3 weeks and have all sorts of techy stuff to back up the theory :D
terry
 
There are as many "let it idle, it won't cause any damage" as there are" don't let it idle, it will cause damage" stories out there, but I have never read one which I actually beleive, either for or against. As far as I know, an engine is designed to run. Taxis idle for hours on cold nights and seem to run forever. HGV's idle for hours and run forever, buses idle for hours and still work, but one thing they are all damaging is the environment!
Allan

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Allanm said:
I have never read one which I actually beleive, either for or against.
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some interesting reading on 'bore glazing'

Most engine manufacturers warn against the potential problem. Sabb and Lister-Petter are in surprising agreement on the subject, as shown in their operator's handbooks. In each case the wording is identical: “Long periods of light or no-load running early in the engine's life may lead to cylinder bore glazing and high lub oil consumption.” Cummins, Perkins and MAN all have issued directives limiting the run time at idle to prevent bore glazing.


.
 
We left our last MH from April to Oct this year until we took it for trade in, started immediately, solar panel did its job. no point to this just to say what we did:)
 
souix said:
We left our last MH from April to Oct this year until we took it for trade in, started immediately
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ScotJimland said:
or not at all.
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yes indeed.. , as I said.. 'or not at all'

when fulltime and we were working, I never started the RV for nearly 6 months.. wouldn't dream of idling just to charge a battery... engines don't have a memory ..
 
Perkin Elmer! So if we've got a Cummins, Perkins or MAN powered motorhome we shouldn't be idle, or bored by glazing - got it! ;)(y)
 
My Dad used to work for the Alvis. He was involved more in the fighting vehicles but Alvis made cars too. All the cars they sold had the engines "run in " before they left the factory. I guess this meant they were run for hours from new at light throttle loads so customers could enjoy full performance as soon as they bought their cars. All these cars and engines were hand built by craftsmen, they never worried about bore glazing or loss of compression.
Maybe new engines are different
Allan

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Allanm said:
My Dad used to work for the Alvis. He was involved more in the fighting vehicles but Alvis made cars too. All the cars they sold had the engines "run in " before they left the factory. I guess this meant they were run for hours from new at light throttle loads so customers could enjoy full performance as soon as they bought their cars. All these cars and engines were hand built by craftsmen, they never worried about bore glazing or loss of compression.
Maybe new engines are different
Allan
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Not sure , but I don't believe petrol engines suffer from glazing .. modern engines don't require 'running in' as they are built to higher tolerances.

compared to petrol, diesel engines have much higher compression ratio which is critical to running.. unlike a petrol engine that will run with little or no compression.. a diesel engine must have good compression to start, whereas any old bag of nails petrol engine will run if it has a spark and fuel.

as for taxis , buses and coaches idling, they are generally doing that when hot .. not when cold when glazing occurs

My RV had a Cummins Engine, and the manual gave a warning about running at idle when cold..
 
ScotJimland said:
some interesting reading on 'bore glazing'

Most engine manufacturers warn against the potential problem. Sabb and Lister-Petter are in surprising agreement on the subject, as shown in their operator's handbooks. In each case the wording is identical: “Long periods of light or no-load running early in the engine's life may lead to cylinder bore glazing and high lub oil consumption.” Cummins, Perkins and MAN all have issued directives limiting the run time at idle to prevent bore glazing.


.
Click to expand...
I believe that is correct until the engine is run in (which I suppose could be a long time on a new MH). the key phrase is "early in the engines life".
 
I personally agree with the "engines don't have a memory" comment.
The engine will start after months of inactivity if the battery has been maintained by a solar panel, or simply removed from the vehicle and looked after at home with battery maintainer/charger.
 
If you're going to leave an engine unused for some time you do need to check the quantity and quality of the oil and other fluids before starting. You probably already knew that.. I would do tyre pressures and light check as well.

Actually I would be more worried about flat spots in the tyres than anything engine related. I know some people store on axle stands to prevent that or take it for a drive periodically....
 
I'm in the don't do it bed here Joy, but only because as Terry says you will have to run the engine for a good while just to put back in what you have used to start it

Better to buy a jump start pack just in case it ever does go flat, buying one myself after recent flat battery issues

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CazPaul said:
Of course there are those people who need to start the engine in order for the bloody Eberspacher heater to start up.

Paul.
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We take ours for a run every couple of weeks and also run the air-con and diesel heater for about 10 mins each.
 
Yeah, but Joy was asking about running the engine at idle in storage. I was making the point that both the air-con and diesel heating should be run for say 10 mins every couple of weeks. Or you may find that when called upon to work.................they don't !!
 
Yes I know Geordie.

I was just making the point that sometimes we have to run the engine just to start the heater, even though some are saying it is bad for the engine.

Paul.

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Wow. Thanks everyone.. really appreciate your help here. I was a bit worried it was going to be classed simply as a 'stupid' question so grateful for your answers which I will look at and think about in full. First thing I need to do is work out how to get stepladders to the farm so I can clear all the sap and leaves off the solar panel... still waiting for a space NOT underneath some strange tree. Thanks again, all. xx
 
Has the farmer no ladders? maybe an easier solution.
Cheers, Dave(y)
 
Allanm said:
. Taxis idle for hours on cold nights and seem to run forever. HGV's idle for hours and run forever, buses idle for hours and still work, but one thing they are all damaging is the environment!
Allan
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Aren't they banning all that by bringing in a £20 fine for leaving your engine idling whilst waiting in queues ? :(half read some old tat recently.:LOL:
 
Bore glazing? Yeah it can happen if you run at idle for extended periods. Run it at high idle with a brick on the pedal it will happen faster.
Will it happen with a quick run once a month for 4 months of winter storage? I doubt it.

I run ours up for an hour and a half every two days when skiing to charge batteries, we pass emissions on the MOT and there isn't oil pouring out of our exhaust system.

So, like everything, do it in moderation and you wont kill anything!

I would say give it a quick run, but don't run it for too long Joy.
 
ScotJimland said:
Not a good idea Joy ..

Running at tick-over speed can polish the cylinder walls, this can result in a loss of compression.. does the engine no good whatsoever..

also, if you don't get it up to running temperature you can get emulsion forming in the oil .. you may recall seeing it around the oil filling cap on older cars , we called it mayonnaise ..

Better to keep it taxed and go for a decent run every month or so.. or not at all.
Click to expand...

Blimey.........didn't know that!:oops:

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davejen said:
Has the farmer no ladders? maybe an easier solution.
Cheers, Dave(y)
Click to expand...

Yes, but it would probably be charged at so much an hour... I am not allowed to wash my van there really. Would have to do the solar panel surreptitiously. :(
 
Well I'm no boffin,but have been a construction worker for years. One thing I can tell you is that every autumn,winter and spring when it's cold workers up and down the land go to their vans twice a day to get warm and have a break !
This will be normally between 30 or 60 mins twice daily,depending on how cold it is ,some will sit there on tick over others will rev the nuts off trying to get warmer quicker.In my 30 ish years of doing this I've never heard of bore glazing untill I joined here.Ive had loads of different makes of van all high mileage and they have kept me warm without moving so I must be missing something!



Vlad
 
Joy to save any confusion or worry take the battery home and connect it to a smart charger. Just make sure you have your radio code.
 
ScotJimland said:
Not sure , but I don't believe petrol engines suffer from glazing .. modern engines don't require 'running in' as they are built to higher tolerances.

compared to petrol, diesel engines have much higher compression ratio which is critical to running.. unlike a petrol engine that will run with little or no compression.. a diesel engine must have good compression to start, whereas any old bag of nails petrol engine will run if it has a spark and fuel.

as for taxis , buses and coaches idling, they are generally doing that when hot .. not when cold when glazing occurs

My RV had a Cummins Engine, and the manual gave a warning about running at idle when cold..
Click to expand...


Going back to the days of Alvis and similar vehicles, I think you'll find the engines were run in, but it was out of the vehicle on a dynomometer, so it was run in under load and it was also to check the power output at the flywheel prior to being put into the vehicle. Also if you check most handbooks of modern vehicles they say don't idle the engine on cold mornings to defrost the windscreen, defrost it first and drive away immediatly, which is when most m/homes are stood (winter)
 
Vlad The Impaler said:
I've never heard of bore glazing untill I joined here.
Click to expand...

Amazing what you can learn on here..:)

I'd never heard of gassing until I joined here, which we all know is a myth .. don't we ?

.... but does that also make cylinder bore glazing a myth ?

Stories about what builders get up to at tea breaks is hardly scientific evidence.. It reminds me of those who defended smoking by relating a story of an uncle who puffed 40 Capstan full strength every day until he died at 95.

interesting reading .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator#Engine_damage

I'm not here to tell anyone what or what not to do.. just what I would not do.. decide for yourself. :)

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