Rip off or just lack of product knowledge? (1 Viewer)

Aug 18, 2014
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It comes back to that same question again and again.

Why is profit a dirty word for so many people?
there's profit & there is "taking the ****" Many in the UK these days are in the second category.

So in your opinion what is an acceptable margin for a trader to make? 10%? 30%? 50%? 200%?

If they charge £50 for a job that costs them £40 to do what's the point in them bothering with it really?
Because it needs doing. 100 of them a week is a grand. & yes you are meant to be working, that is why you are put on the earth. & no 2 @ 500 /week is the same. That's a p*** take.

Assuming the dealership only charges £40 an hour for a technician. That would be on the low end these days. The small three man band garage in our village charges about that and they have minimal overheads. £120 an hour is nearer the mark for car dealerships so I don't imagine MH dealers are much different. 2 hour minimum charge, add Her Majesty's bit and there's your £300.

Nonsense. Even the dealer I know in Somerset that my mate complains about is 60/hr +vat. (Which is nearly 3x any main dealer around where I live. )

If someone expected me to pay 120/hr with a 2 hr minimum then I'd know they were a ****taker.:mad:

& no when I was in business I'd charge the same rate 24hrs/day , 7 days/week . no call out either. If I didn't want the work I'd tell them, I wouldn't " overprice" to get them to go elsewhere. That is just completely wrong.
 

Paddywack

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No it's an example of standard practice. When I was contracting in a completely different field to the one I'm in now we had a minimum call out charge for up to the first hour even if the job took 5 minutes. I don't think you will find anyone who works any differently. Ring a plumber or a sparky and ask them to quote you for a 20 minute job :whistle:

Yes I do actually. About 80 - 85% of it is repeat (y)

There is a difference between a call out and someone coming to your premises. As to £120 an hour for labour, what actual field do you work in - you don't sit in the house of commons do you as I have a couple of questions need asking?

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Feb 16, 2013
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Throughout my life I've dealt with maybe thousands of people either buying or selling but all that time I would rather work for nothing than think I had charged more than the job deserved, and on the other side if I thought someone had charged me too much , it was the last time they had anything off me.
I've ended up with very little but still got an easy conscience.
 

scotjimland

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Great believer in "what goes around, comes around" .. rip off and be ripped off..

Like @chaser when self employed, I have never knowing overcharged or tried to con anyone.. when employed, did an honest days work for an honest days pay.. now retired am willing to help and give my time for nothing..

I worked for a very short time for a company that had NO conscience.. they insisted we rip off the customers.. the type of company that feature on Rogue Traders.. I couldn't do it and left within a month.. rather be unemployed as a con man raidng old peoples piggy banks..

for some companies, 'old school values' and ethics seem to be out of fashion.. it's rip 'em off if you can get away with it..
 

Derbyshire wanderer

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Because my charges are high and would seem excessively so to people who think they know a little bit about what I do. As a rule those people don't actually have a clue what's involved in what I do. I usually invite them to take their business elsewhere.
@NickNic, may I ask what line of business you are in? I only ask as you appear to have a different view to most contributors of what is reasonable pricing in that I always want quality but at what I would consider reasonably priced. Yes that is difficult to quantify hence the question.

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Derbyshire wanderer

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Well I charge 123 quid an hour plus vat plus expenses for my time.

I'm worth it.

The OP is describing a rip off..
As asked above, unless you tell us what you are selling, the worth is unknown. Also accepted it that we all gauge worth differently.
Are you willing to say?
 

mjltigger

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As asked above, unless you tell us what you are selling, the worth is unknown. Also accepted it that we all gauge worth differently.
Are you willing to say?

Well my point us exactly the opposite.. measuring the value of one thing against another is irrelevant. Regardless of how much other people charge selling an expensive part and at least twice as much labour as needed is a rip off.

I'm a software consultant although that's irrelevant.

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Allanm

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I used to hire out party equipment, bouncy castles, snow machines, supply balloons and make up balloon decorations, all at a flat rate, all year round. I didn't agree with raising prices during school holidays, Easter, Christmas etc, as almost any other company does, and got lots of referrals from customers, so much so that I had far too much work.
I could have raised my prices at peak demand time, but to me, companies that do that are trading immorally, or ripping others off.
Same as peak time travel fares.
If I could do it at a flat rate and make a reasonable profit, so could everyone else.
 

Derbyshire wanderer

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Well my point us exactly the opposite.. measuring the value of one thing against another is irrelevant. Regardless of how much other people charge selling an expensive part and at least twice as much labour as needed is a rip off.

I'm a software consultant although that's irrelevant.
I do think it's relevant as your trade is specialised and imho you labour rate is therefore probably reasonable. The op was being quoted both a high labour rate and a lot of time to do it for something that a semi skilled worker could do in that it is a straightforward fitting job and not a design or overhaul repair, therefore again imo not reasonable.
 

Bobby22

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Because my charges are high and would seem excessively so to people who think they know a little bit about what I do. As a rule those people don't actually have a clue what's involved in what I do. I usually invite them to take their business elsewhere.
Well I charge 123 quid an hour plus vat plus expenses for my time.

But that IS the going rate for a male stripper......i'm sure you are worth it.(y)(y)(y)(y)

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Feb 24, 2013
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My perspective differs, but it does not make me wrong, we just disagree

A major problem is the internet, allowing people to source the cheapest possible component and then convince themselves they can fit it themselves

or decide how much the workshop should be able to charge

I run a small business with three engineers, no fancy show room or workshops, but we need vehicles to get to our customers, my engineers lose several days a year doing training, during which they earn me nothing and we pay for the privilege of going, but without which we are not allowed to do the work

The result is we have to charge £600 / day to break even, that is plus VAT

It looks much easier from the outside looking in
 

Bobby22

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My perspective differs, but it does not make me wrong, we just disagree

A major problem is the internet, allowing people to source the cheapest possible component and then convince themselves they can fit it themselves

or decide how much the workshop should be able to charge

I run a small business with three engineers, no fancy show room or workshops, but we need vehicles to get to our customers, my engineers lose several days a year doing training, during which they earn me nothing and we pay for the privilege of going, but without which we are not allowed to do the work

The result is we have to charge £600 / day to break even, that is plus VAT

It looks much easier from the outside looking in


Horses for courses David.


I often did jobs for our coy. that would have cost the customer hundreds if not over a thousand for 15 minutes work.........but we didn't rip them off.

I onced travelled from Glasgow to the Shetland islands to do 15 minutes work and the costomer had to foot the bill. (Agreed before i travelled) 30 hrs travelling time ferry fares overnight cabin and meal allowances.

What if i messed up the job and had to return to do it again? Should we charge double just in case? Should we take twice as much material than we need just in case.

I also travelled with a workmate to the scilly isles by taxi.....aeroplane.....hire car......helicopter........service bus...........stayed in a holiday cottage for 2 nights.......to do 4hrs work ...........must have cost a pretty penny.

In the end they got what they wanted at the going rate. They were happy we were happy.

A lot of money for very little work.....but we didn't rip them off.
 
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Judge Mental

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Well my point us exactly the opposite.. measuring the value of one thing against another is irrelevant. Regardless of how much other people charge selling an expensive part and at least twice as much labour as needed is a rip off.

I'm a software consultant although that's irrelevant.

Right:) are apple computers less vulnerable to malewhare (banking fraud) then windows systems plse....
 

funflair

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So prey tell, how many hours a week / day do you do at that rate which equates to £180,000 a year? Are you a Frankly owner!

It doesn't work quite as easy as that, I wish it did. Sadly a business does not get to keep everything that they charge the customer they have overheads, office/workshop, car/van possibly other staff behind the scenes not being billed directly, then there is rent rates electric insurance, advertising, reinvestment, google placement etc etc, then if there is anything left at the end you will get a tax bill, finally you might get to keep a bit for yourself or not if you got it wrong.

That I believe is where the skill comes into running a business, if there is nothing left at the end of the month/year you wont last long.

Back to the OP we dont have all the facts, possibly the dealer condemned the regulator or just didn't want in the installation which they were going to be responsible for, did the quote include rental on two new Calor bottles and what was the cost to dispose of the old German bottles.

No it was not a "Rip Off" the cost was up front and no hidden extras, it might have been expensive or not who knows but they gave the customer the choice.

Martin
 

Paddywack

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It doesn't work quite as easy as that, I wish it did. Sadly a business does not get to keep everything that they charge the customer they have overheads, office/workshop, car/van possibly other staff behind the scenes not being billed directly, then there is rent rates electric insurance, advertising, reinvestment, google placement etc etc, then if there is anything left at the end you will get a tax bill, finally you might get to keep a bit for yourself or not if you got it wrong.

That I believe is where the skill comes into running a business, if there is nothing left at the end of the month/year you wont last long.

Back to the OP we dont have all the facts, possibly the dealer condemned the regulator or just didn't want in the installation which they were going to be responsible for, did the quote include rental on two new Calor bottles and what was the cost to dispose of the old German bottles.

No it was not a "Rip Off" the cost was up front and no hidden extras, it might have been expensive or not who knows but they gave the customer the choice.

Martin
Tell me about it, I employ 12 people so know how it works. I was commenting on the basis that I think a software consultant, whilst highly skilled, is not going to be working a normal 9-5 week, at least not for me at £123 + vat per hour. At that price you're paying for their experience and knowledge, and I would imagine it's short contract followed by drought followed by next contract. At least that's how the consultants I know work or they have a longer contract at a substantially reduced rate.

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MattR

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I'm not in business so don't know about the costs but the OP sounds like a rip off and I would not have returned to that company for other work if they had quoted such an amount for the job and based it on what I perceive as unnecessary work.
 
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Back to the OP we dont have all the facts, possibly the dealer condemned the regulator or just didn't want in the installation which they were going to be responsible for, did the quote include rental on two new Calor bottles and what was the cost to dispose of the old German bottles.

The van is brand spanking new! Done less than 1000 miles. According to the paperwork, hot out of Bad Waldsee on 15th July. No chance that the regulator was condemned. He didn't even touch it, just gave a cursory glance. No 'extras', Calor bottles, disposal of German bottle included.
My impression was not that he didn't want the work. He was quick to guide us inside to book the van in for it to be carried out.

they gave the customer the choice

The choice they gave was to have the work done, or not. We chose not to have it done.

They failed, either intentionally or through lack of knowledge to inform us of the vastly cheaper option.
 
Feb 16, 2013
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The van is brand spanking new! Done less than 1000 miles. According to the paperwork, hot out of Bad Waldsee on 15th July. No chance that the regulator was condemned. He didn't even touch it, just gave a cursory glance. No 'extras', Calor bottles, disposal of German bottle included.
My impression was not that he didn't want the work. He was quick to guide us inside to book the van in for it to be carried out.



The choice they gave was to have the work done, or not. We chose not to have it done.

They failed, either intentionally or through lack of knowledge to inform us of the vastly cheaper option.
I know this is slightly off topic, but I would investigate a gas it setup , off the top of my head I think mine cost around£180 , it's as simple to fit as changing a bottle and you can fill the same bottle all over Europe.(y)

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D

Deleted member 29692

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Right:) are apple computers less vulnerable to malewhare (banking fraud) then windows systems plse....

If it was a serious question historically yes, the Apple OS has always been more secure than Windows, at least in part because they were less common so the bad guys didn't bother coding nastiness to attack them. That's changing now as they are becoming more common they are becoming more of a target. They are still inherently far far more secure though. I run multiple Macs and don't feel the need for any kind of security software on any of them. The only way you will have any problem is by installing something yourself i.e. a dodgy or fake piece of software or opening the attachment in one of those spam emails and even then only if, by chance, it's something written for OS X.
 

Judge Mental

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If it was a serious question historically yes, the Apple OS has always been more secure than Windows, at least in part because they were less common so the bad guys didn't bother coding nastiness to attack them. That's changing now as they are becoming more common they are becoming more of a target. They are still inherently far far more secure though. I run multiple Macs and don't feel the need for any kind of security software on any of them. The only way you will have any problem is by installing something yourself i.e. a dodgy or fake piece of software or opening the attachment in one of those spam emails and even then only if, by chance, it's something written for OS X.


thanks for that..It was just on news last few days about the level of bank fraud. personally would rather delete anything then open if if unsure. had some ransomware last year that was a pain in the arse..wife gets so much junk its unbelievable probably something she opened:whistle:

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Paddywack

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If it was a serious question historically yes, the Apple OS has always been more secure than Windows, at least in part because they were less common so the bad guys didn't bother coding nastiness to attack them. That's changing now as they are becoming more common they are becoming more of a target. They are still inherently far far more secure though. I run multiple Macs and don't feel the need for any kind of security software on any of them. The only way you will have any problem is by installing something yourself i.e. a dodgy or fake piece of software or opening the attachment in one of those spam emails and even then only if, by chance, it's something written for OS X.

As you say more attractive to the baddies, but the modus operandi is the same foir both
http://www.dailytech.com/Apples+OS+X+is+First+OS+to+be+Hacked+at+This+Years+Pwn2Own/article21097.htm

Personally I wouldn't run any device without protection.
 

Frentchy

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The only Rip off I can see in this Tread is un-qualified people messing about with Gas in their Habitation/ Motor homes, to get a cheap Job. Im not sure how the insurance would react if there was explosion/fire. And would those that have Di-yd their Gas system notify a future owner.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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The only Rip off I can see in this Tread is un-qualified people messing about with Gas in their Habitation/ Motor homes, to get a cheap Job. Im not sure how the insurance would react if there was explosion/fire. And would those that have Di-yd their Gas system notify a future owner.

We've covered this before. There is no requirement to be registered with anyone to work on the gas system of a caravan or motor caravan unless it is permanently sited, to be used for hire or to be used for some other business purposes.

It's obviously good practice to use someone competent but there's absolutely nothing that says you have to and therefore no reason why you would need to tell a new owner anything.

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