Right or Wrong

[Daniel. M]

It's been well documented that Motorhomes do pump money into the local economies they visit, so is this council right or wrong

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[Gingernuts]

Link disbar work

 

[TheAleMan]

Link not working Daniel

 

[Googlebot]

Alas politicians are using wedge issues to gain votes all the time now. Of course it’s wrong.

Pick a minority and blame them for issues, it’s popular amongst most people. Get votes.

A real shame. At least it’s just Motorhomes for us. We could be refugees, trans women, NHS Managers and GP’s etc.

I don’t have a solution other than write to them and don’t give them your vote come ballot day.

 

[GJH]

It's been well documented that Motorhomes do pump money into the local economies they visit

Has it? It has often been claimed but with no proof.
Exploring the subject a few years ago was, at best, inconclusive.

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[Minxy]

Has it? It has often been claimed but with no proof.
Exploring the subject a few years ago was, at best, inconclusive.

Judging by the number of MHs here in Spain in certain areas they must certainly be providing a fair bit of income to the local communities, I suspect many businesses would notice quite a drop if they weren't here, especially the bread shops.

In the UK it won't be as obvious but some of that's down to the way MHs are deterred from visiting due to restrictions and/or made to feel unwelcome. When we holidayed in the UK in the last couple of years we bought groceries and other stuff from local shops, the charity shops made a killing out of us!

 

[Wh05apk]

Has it? It has often been claimed but with no proof.
Exploring the subject a few years ago was, at best, inconclusive.

I think properly organised sites/aires will help the local economy, I think the issue is with wildcamping /"van lifers" who park up where they want, expecting everything to be free, abusing the local area.
We often go to Felixstowe, there is a section of seafront there, where often several vans park up(seems to be the same vans every weekend?) they then spread out tables and chairs over the promenade, and take up the parking for everyone else, there are no shops near there, a restaurant/pub, sso I cannot see much benefit to the local economy, there is already hostility and bad press locally, so I think this will only be a matter of time before motorhomes are banned here.

 

[Jim]

Has it? It has often been claimed but with no proof.

So negative! Directly and indirectly there are thousands involved in the industry itself, from making, selling, repairing, MOTing, campsite operating, accessory makers/sellers. All those people benefit from motorhomes and spend in the local economy.

Then there is every pub near a campsite, that would close if if it wasn't for campers, along with the a thousand other pubs who regularly welcome motorhomes. There are so many out of town sites where people stay and cycle into towns to spend in pubs shops and restaurants Yes you can go away for a weekend with no money, but I bet you never have.

Things have moved on since you were talking to Councils Graham, CAMpRA have made great inroads with them. Campra and the councils have done their own studies and concluded that it pays to encourage visitors in motohomes. They do spend money. Which is why so many councils and Campra are working hard to set up parking for us.

 

[GJH]

So negative! Directly and indirectly there are thousands involved in the industry itself, from making, selling, repairing, MOTing, campsite operating, accessory makers/sellers. All those people benefit from motorhomes and spend in the local economy.

Then there is every pub near a campsite, that would close if if it wasn't for campers, along with the a thousand other pubs who regularly welcome motorhomes. There are so many out of town sites where people stay and cycle into towns to spend in pubs shops and restaurants Yes you can go away for a weekend with no money, but I bet you never have.

Things have moved on since you were talking to Councils Graham, CAMpRA have made great inroads with them. Campra and the councils have done their own studies and concluded that it pays to encourage visitors in motohomes. They do spend money. Which is why so many councils and Campra are working hard to set up parking for us.

I'm pleased if that is the case Jim and you are right that we never went away for the weekend without sending money. The claims that I have seen over the years, though, have never actually been backed by figures.
Is there any organisation which publishes the net economic effect of motorhome tourism on destination towns?

 

[Googlebot]

I'm pleased if that is the case Jim and you are right that we never went away for the weekend without sending money. The claims that I have seen over the years, though, have never actually been backed by figures.
Is there any organisation which publishes the net economic effect of motorhome tourism on destination towns?

It’s really difficult to back up with hard evidence. However for me it’s one of those things where the absence of evidence doesn’t translate into evidence of absence.

If we all spend money, which we do, it’s going somewhere…..

Spent three nights in Yorkshire recently including 2 free stopovers, still spent £200.

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[Jim]

I'm pleased if that is the case Jim and you are right that we never went away for the weekend without sending money. The claims that I have seen over the years, though, have never actually been backed by figures.
Is there any organisation which publishes the net economic effect of motorhome tourism on destination towns?

I'm not sure. But my local butcher is always asking how many campers are in at my place, and. more importantly at the big C&MC site next door, they get extra staff to cope with site opening times. Without the visiting motorhomes and caravans they wouldn't be here. Nor would our chippy, nor would the local garage that stocks LPG purely because of visitors in Motorhomes. You don't need a survey, it obvious. Holiday makers in motorhomes and caravans spend money.

 

[meanders]

When on a Warner's rally just go into cafe's etc in Shepton, Newbury, Norwich etc and ask them.

Ok , that's at the busy end of the spectrum, but it does make a huge difference at these big rallies.

Have work in retail systems for years, all the supermarkets will be factoring the larger rallies into their schedules. Even Jaws Swaffham Shindig caused some pressure in the local town. Hopefully someone will let them know ahead of time this year.

 

[Sapper520]

I’m afraid our tourist town is now geared more towards the ‘Day Trippers’……last report I read (a few years ago) indicated up to 60% of visitors are here for the day.

The only Camp Site near the town is at Uphill. There are others at Sandbay / Kewstoke, but that’s not near the town. Walkable, but not an easy walk if you have mobility problems.

Years ago, there were several sites on what was the fringes of the town, but they are all housing estates now. A seaside town with no (well one if you count Uphill) permanent camps sites? The two local Rugby Clubs do try help, and it’s a little earner for them.

I can’t think of any designated MH parking bays on the seafront now. I think Locking Road Carpark is the only ‘easy’ parking place for MH’s, but hardly somewhere pretty to sit.

I suppose the decision of our Town Council and North Somerset Council is to cater for the majority. As much as it peeves me to say it, I suppose that’s what they have to do, so MH’s and Campers don’t come into the Majority category.

 

[Bailey58]

It's been well documented that Motorhomes do pump money into the local economies they visit, so is this council right or wrong

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Try this

Don't bother, the article is probably out of date.

 

[Bailey58]

North Norfolk taxpayers should not bear the "burden" of providing facilities for campervan waste, councillors have said.

At a meeting of North Norfolk District Council (NNDC) cabinet on Tuesday (September 6), council bosses said they should not have to meet the costs of installing disposal facilities across the district to tackle the problem of motorhome owners dumping toilet waste into public loos.

Tim Adams, council leader, said: "I feel the costs should be borne by the users of those facilities."

Tim Adams, leader of North Norfolk District Council. (Image: Supplied by the Liberal Democrats)
He said the council would take on board a recommendation of the council's overview and scrutiny committee, that all options for campervan waste disposal should be considered.

Nigel Lloyd, portfolio holder for environmental services, climate change and environment, said that dumping the waste in public loos was "a disgusting thing to do".

"People come to enjoy this area," he said.

North Norfolk District Council environment portfolio holder Nigel Lloyd. (Image: Copyright Nicholas Manthorpe)

Examples of motorhome owners emptying waste cassettes into public drains that run onto beaches were "unacceptable".

He said it was a difficult problem to resolve and that providing waste facilities was not the answer.

"People who buy these should make their own provision," he said.

Richard Kershaw, NNDC's portfolio holder for sustainable growth. (Image: Supplied)

Richard Kershaw, portfolio holder for sustainable growth, said the council received a "negative response" from campsites that had been contacted to see if they would provide a disposal service at their own cost.

Mr Kershaw said it would cost the council more than £10,000 for a station to treat the extra waste itself.

"I don't think it's fair that people driving expensive vehicles should burden local taxpayers of north Norfolk with this facility," he said.

Mr Kershaw said it was an expensive problem but there seemed to be "very little give from motorhome owners".

Lucy Shires, north Norfolk district and county councillor. (Image: Supplied)

Lucy Shires, portfolio holder for organisational resources, said that the village of Walcott has "suffered quite dreadfully from the poor behavior from a small number of motorhome users".

"Some tourists have been seen dumping their waste in a public drain despite residents pointing out that it runs on to the beach," she said.

She suggested the council, working with Anglian Water, could provide more education across the district about the issue.

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[Speve]

It’s really difficult to back up with hard evidence. However for me it’s one of those things where the absence of evidence doesn’t translate into evidence of absence.

If we all spend money, which we do, it’s going somewhere…..

Spent three nights in Yorkshire recently including 2 free stopovers, still spent £200.

I think you’ll find if you look at camPra website they have done some documents that you can download with this sort of information on it?

Campaign for Real Aires UK - CAMpRA

This campaign is to encourage spending in the local economy by the provision of Aires

campra.org.uk

 

[j8snl]

Has it? It has often been claimed but with no proof.
Exploring the subject a few years ago was, at best, inconclusive.

Not a proper acid test I'm sure, but there's 3 busy sites we are regular visitors to here in Scotland. Co-Op have build a supermarket literally on the front door of two of them and a 5 min walk from the third, this is something we do use, maybe not for everything as our van is usually stocked before we leave, but we do use it and I see others do as well. All 3 have local pubs and restaurants close by all busy with faces you see from the campsites and one has even put a weekend pizza service at the entrance of the site, which you need to book a slot for your collection.

Two of those three sites are open all year and busy.

As I said, my very small sample but I'm sure all those local businesses are benefitting from those busy campsites being close by.

 

[Googlebot]

Of course the obvious answer to sewage dumping is to claim you are a water company…..

I will get my coat.

 

[Googlebot]

Inspired by this post I have just emailed a tourist attraction in a National Park we stopped at last year. Huge car park that was empty, gave permission for us to stay as a one off.

I reckon with Campra’s help, they would make a substantial amount of extra money for little outlay. There are few sites in the area and those that are there are overpriced and dated.

Fingers crossed.

 

[GJH]

It’s really difficult to back up with hard evidence. However for me it’s one of those things where the absence of evidence doesn’t translate into evidence of absence.

I'm not sure. But my local butcher is always asking how many campers are in at my place, and. more importantly at the big C&MC site next door, they get extra staff to cope with site opening times. Without the visiting motorhomes and caravans they wouldn't be here. Nor would our chippy, nor would the local garage that stocks LPG purely because of visitors in Motorhomes. You don't need a survey, it obvious. Holiday makers in motorhomes and caravans spend money.

The problem with lack of hard evidence - evidence which might be obvious to you and I - is that we are not the ones who need convincing.
The people who have to be convinced are councillors with residents bending their ears - the sort of residents whose protests resulted on restrictions being placed on the two coastal car parks between Redcar & Marske because they could show they were adversely affected.
As in all walks of life, it's far better to have evidenced answers available up front and not be scrabbling about for them when the questions are asked by the decision makers.

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[Jim]

The problem with lack of hard evidence - evidence which might be obvious to you and I - is that we are not the ones who need convincing.
The people who have to be convinced are councillors with residents bending their ears - the sort of residents whose protests resulted on restrictions being placed on the two coastal car parks between Redcar & Marske because they could show they were adversely affected.
As in all walks of life, it's far better to have evidenced answers available up front and not be scrabbling about for them when the questions are asked by the decision makers.

Well I think that anyone dumb enough, to think that motorhome tourists don't add to a communities coffers, or those with an agenda, wouldn't believe any survey

 

[Googlebot]

The problem with lack of hard evidence - evidence which might be obvious to you and I - is that we are not the ones who need convincing.
The people who have to be convinced are councillors with residents bending their ears - the sort of residents whose protests resulted on restrictions being placed on the two coastal car parks between Redcar & Marske because they could show they were adversely affected.
As in all walks of life, it's far better to have evidenced answers available up front and not be scrabbling about for them when the questions are asked by the decision makers.

Easy to say that, but unless you can survey Motorhome owners extensively with the research methodology and peer reviewed approval to back it up, you have nothing to evidence. That in itself is an expensive and difficult task just gathering the data and what improvements it makes is difficult at best.

My experience of local Councillors is not a positive one. Pandering to the vocal minority at the expense of the majority. Again the wedge issues that garner votes rather than working for the vested interest of the most.

Saying that Motorhomes don’t contribute to the local economy is farcical, we all know they do, we own them.

 

[Sapper520]

Easy to say that, but unless you can survey Motorhome owners extensively with the research methodology and peer reviewed approval to back it up, you have nothing to evidence. That in itself is an expensive and difficult task just gathering the data and what improvements it makes is difficult at best.

My experience of local Councillors is not a positive one. Pandering to the vocal minority at the expense of the majority. Again the wedge issues that garner votes rather than working for the vested interest of the most.

Saying that Motorhomes don’t contribute to the local economy is farcical, we all know they do, we own them.

I’m afraid Motorhomer’s don’t contribute enough to be considered locally here.

 

[GJH]

Well I think that anyone dumb enough, to think that motorhome tourists don't add to a communities coffers, or those with an agenda, wouldn't believe any survey

Saying that Motorhomes don’t contribute to the local economy is farcical, we all know they do, we own them.

Nobody is claiming that motorhomers don't spend some money.
The original statement that I commented on, though, was "that Motorhomes do pump money into the local economies they visit".
The question is do motorhomers spend sufficient money to justify councils encouraging them?
Posts #7, #13 and #23 on this thread suggest that the question is not cut and dried - supporting the stance that having the answers ready in advance is wise.

 

[Sapper520]

If you look at this 6 year old report, Motorhomes / Campervans are not mentioned in the Accommodation graph, so must be in the ‘Other’ which is a total of 1%.

Why would local councils spend money on facilities for such a small percentage? There is an argument that if facilities are supplied then more Motorhomer’s would come, but a cash strapped authority is not going to splash cash on such low return.

https://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2020-02/tourism%20summary%20Weston-super-Mare%202017.pdf

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[kevenh]

'Burden' of campervan waste should not be on locals, council says

North Norfolk taxpayers should not bear the "burden" of providing facilities for campervan waste, councillors have said.

www.northnorfolknews.co.uk

7th September 2022 article from the OP
sorry if I missed a successful attempt. Hope this works. The post preview was OK

 

[Crazylegs]

I’m afraid Motorhomer’s don’t contribute enough to be considered locally here.

Of course motorhomes spend wherever they are, but it’s just a fraction of what folk stopping in hotels, eating out in restaurants and perhaps enjoying a game of golf spend.

 

[Sapper520]

Of course motorhomes spend wherever they are, but it’s just a fraction of what folk stopping in hotels, eating out in restaurants and perhaps enjoying a game of golf spend.

That’s why I’ve included the graphs above. 2017, but I doubt if much as changed. And that’s why our Authorities spend probably zero on Motorhome facilities.

 

[autorouter]

Lucy Shires, portfolio holder for organisational resources, said that the village of Walcott has "suffered quite dreadfully from the poor behavior from a small number of motorhome users".

"Some tourists have been seen dumping their waste in a public drain despite residents pointing out that it runs on to the beach," she said.

She suggested the council, working with Anglian Water, could provide more education across the district about the issue.

Looks like those tourists have already had education provided by Anglian Water, especially their sewage overflow performance.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

I’m afraid Motorhomer’s don’t contribute enough to be considered locally here.

The case in point, on your doorstep, Burnham on Sea. If we are in Cornwall, Devon or Somerset, we always stop off at Burnham on Sea and use the dedicated motorhome parking, where we have breakfast or lunch then spend an hour or two going around the shops, where my wife always finds something 'nice'
If only there were more towns providing dedicated motorhome parking, using the van in the UK would be much more pleasurable