Reverse Gear Recall (1 Viewer)

Peter James

Free Member
Dec 5, 2009
259
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9,573
Thanks for the reply GIBLA53

Perhaps its something to do with the construction or use of a motorhome instead of a commercial van then?

I have a 2009 Citroen Relay 120 L4 H2 van self build conversion (are there no commercially produced motorhomes based on the Relay?) with no windows in the back (does windows make the vibration worse?) and have done 5,000 miles. It doesn't like reversing up steep hills, makes it more noisy, but I haven't noticed any judder. Reverse gear is a bit high so you have to slip the clutch to go slow, and maybe have to rev it a bit to get enough torque to reverse up a steep hill, obviously if you went a long way like that you could burn out the clutch, but if I hadn't read anything about the reverse judder on the internet I wouldn't have thought anymore about it.
 
Last edited:

Kon tiki

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Oct 11, 2007
487
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If, as it appears, the Relay is the same van as the Ducato, are motorhomes more vulnerable because of extra weight, driving on softer ground campsites (try pedalling as bike on soft ground and see how much harder it is) more reversing up chocks for levelling, or more hilly scenic roads?

Or is it to do with the driver. Does the driver of a new Fiat Ducato motorhome notice (or imagine) a slight judder that plays on his mind, that white van man in the Citroen Relay doesn't even notice?

Fiat advertised the base vehicle chassis, engine & gearbox as specially designed for motorhome use :RollEyes: so they shouldn't really be saying it is anything to do with the extra weight as long as it is within their MGW.

We have met many Fiat owners (a couple were ex lorry drivers) who have had judder to some extent from slight to where reverse would only be used as a last resort.

We deliberately ruled out Fiats when we bought in 2008 as Fiat at the time were saying it wasn't a problem, as a base vehicle our Renault is superb but it is an automatic & I believe the Fiat automatic is relatively trouble free.
 
OP
OP
WillH
Feb 9, 2008
4,086
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SW Scotland
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1,453
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LP Coachbuilt
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Since 2008 after caravanning for 20 years
One of the reasons for the judder may be the fact that the vans on the X250 chassis are almost fully laden all the time, unlike white vans. A panel van conversion also has the original X250 chassis unlike the wider, lower chassis construced specifically for motorhome manufacturers.

Once again I'll say that it's a great van to drive and my fix seems to have been quite succesful.

Rgds
Bill

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kinsleyboy

Free Member
Dec 11, 2009
115
15
Shropshire
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Bessacarr E560
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Oct 09
Advice please

Hi All,
I'm new to motorhoming and have only had my m/h a couple of months during which time it's been laid up most of the time because of the weather (no comments please!) so I'm intruiged by the comments about the problem with reverse gear judder on Fiat x250 & problems with water ingress into the engine compartment. I've not had chance to really test mine out but I am yet to identify problems.
I have 3 questions.
1. How do I know if the mod to prevent the water problem has been done?
2. Should I contact Fiat about getting these mods done anyway, as the warranty expires at end of this month?
3. Do people think that emailing Fiat UK is the right thing to do in the first instance?

Any advice would be much appreciated!.:RollEyes:
 

kinsleyboy

Free Member
Dec 11, 2009
115
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Oct 09
Advice please

Hi All,
I should have made it clear that the main problem that's worrying me is the gearbox mod!

Thanks:Doh:
 

meanders

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The best way is to contact Fiat motorhome help in the manual an international freephone no. or contact your local Fiat dealer. They should be able to confirm what mods have been done.
We have had the engine cover and gearbox mods done and so far reverse is much smoother.
 

Neckender

Free Member
Oct 15, 2007
3,221
5,921
Neckend or North Wales.
Funster No
635
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VW T6.1Kombi day Van
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Since 2004
Contact Fiat uk, they've been real good with dealing with our judder and it's all fixed now.

John.

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Oct 23, 2009
782
607
Anglesey North Wales
Funster No
9,010
MH
Adria Twin 640SLB
Exp
Since 2010
Confused

As a brand new MH owner I’m now I’m really really very confused.
I can see that there are hundreds of comments on the dreaded Fiat modifications/ judder issue and I really don’t know what to do for the best.
I bought my Autotrail Cheyenne 3.0 litre Fiat November last year and it was first registered 01/04/2008.I really haven’t used it that much yet (waiting for better weather etc) but reading all the comments I’m now not sure if I should register with Fiat just to get the latest modifications done.
What do the expert’s panel think, should I do it and how long have I got to do it?
I should also mention that having read all the bad news on the forums I did contacted the previous owner and he doesn’t think my Cheyenne has a problem, or he certainly hadn’t experienced it.
Confused!!!!!!
 

Neckender

Free Member
Oct 15, 2007
3,221
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Neckend or North Wales.
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635
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VW T6.1Kombi day Van
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Fiat state that there are no problems with the 3 litre gearbox and there is no fix for it. Some owners however say they have problems with the 3 litre but Fiat will do nothing about it. On the other hand Fiat have been very good and fixed the judder on our 2.3 litre.

John.
 
Oct 23, 2009
782
607
Anglesey North Wales
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9,010
MH
Adria Twin 640SLB
Exp
Since 2010
Just thinking on and if I suspect I have a judder .
If my Fiat 2 year warranty expires in April 2010( I think its 2 years ) would it be better to at least register an issue with them and get a reference number.
At least that way if something mechanically catastrophic does happen at least I’ve reported it even though Fiat choose to do nothing .
What do other 3.0 ltr owners advise ?

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Jan 18, 2010
538
138
Airdrie Scotland
Funster No
9,996
Exp
6 years and 20 years as a tugger
As a brand new MH owner I’m now I’m really really very confused.
I can see that there are hundreds of comments on the dreaded Fiat modifications/ judder issue and I really don’t know what to do for the best.
I bought my Autotrail Cheyenne 3.0 litre Fiat November last year and it was first registered 01/04/2008.I really haven’t used it that much yet (waiting for better weather etc) but reading all the comments I’m now not sure if I should register with Fiat just to get the latest modifications done.
What do the expert’s panel think, should I do it and how long have I got to do it?
I should also mention that having read all the bad news on the forums I did contacted the previous owner and he doesn’t think my Cheyenne has a problem, or he certainly hadn’t experienced it.
Confused!!!!!!

Hi i have the 3lt 07 Model and for my peace of mind and like you had herd all the hype regarding the Judder.I contacted Fiat uk and within 5 working days my M/Home was booked in to the local dealer, by Fiat to have it checked i spent a good hour on a road test with the Fiat Tech we did everthing to try and get a judder reversing up major hills, also with little revs, nothing was wrong.Regarding engine cover just contact your local Fiat Dealer and they will do the Mods I also asked the Dealer if he has had a lot of complaints regarding this judder he stated that the only ones that have had this problem were the 2lt version The strange thing i cant understand is that if it is a designe problem why is it that all models are not affected Perhaps some one can help there



Bill:thumb:
 

pete the pub

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Sep 8, 2009
7
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My 2009 Motorhome with a Peugeot 3.0ltr engine and dual mas flywheel and clutch is a load of cr!! I complained about the clutch burning after about 2000 miles took it to main dealer they said it was ok did another 2000 miles and the clutch went completely. No one wants to know i had to pay 600 euros to get it fixed they repaced the flywheel under warranty but charged me for the clutch. I have now travelled about 8000 miles still not happy with the clutch. If you also think that about 75% of the driving time was on a motorway or dual carrigeway and the van was in autocruise how can it be me that knackered the clutch:Angry:
 

Spacerunner

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Apr 7, 2008
607
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Contact Fiat UK by phone and ask for a hard copy of all the details that they hold on your vehicle. They will most probably only need the vehicle's reg number for ID purposes.

Also make sure that the warranty start date is set at the original owner's delivery date and not when Fiat delivered to the converter. The motorhome dealer is supposed to do this but some are a bit forgetful :Doh:

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Jan 18, 2010
538
138
Airdrie Scotland
Funster No
9,996
Exp
6 years and 20 years as a tugger
Just thinking on and if I suspect I have a judder .
If my Fiat 2 year warranty expires in April 2010( I think its 2 years ) would it be better to at least register an issue with them and get a reference number.
At least that way if something mechanically catastrophic does happen at least I’ve reported it even though Fiat choose to do nothing .
What do other 3.0 ltr owners advise ?

Your correct get a case no for future as i said on my last post i have had it fully checked out i have the 3.0 ltr and have had no problems with the juuuuuddddeeeer

Bill:thumb:
 

motorhomer

Free Member
May 17, 2008
680
418
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Van Conversion
Exp
since 2005 (but 30 years caravanning)
No probs with my 3ltr (or a previous 3ltr I had for 6 months), reverse is a bit high but its perfectly manageable without judder. Now done nearly 13000 miles. I think the van is super, but I am not too impressed with Peugeot dealers.

I think we were parked next to pete the pub in Javea late last year. We were in our Pilote. I know you were worried about the clutch, did you get home OK?

Jeff O
 
Oct 23, 2009
782
607
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9,010
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Adria Twin 640SLB
Exp
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Hi i have the 3lt 07 Model and for my peace of mind and like you had herd all the hype regarding the Judder.I contacted Fiat uk and within 5 working days my M/Home was booked in to the local dealer, by Fiat to have it checked i spent a good hour on a road test with the Fiat Tech we did everthing to try and get a judder reversing up major hills, also with little revs, nothing was wrong.Regarding engine cover just contact your local Fiat Dealer and they will do the Mods I also asked the Dealer if he has had a lot of complaints regarding this judder he stated that the only ones that have had this problem were the 2lt version The strange thing i cant understand is that if it is a designe problem why is it that all models are not affected Perhaps some one can help there

Bill:thumb:

Hi Bill , For peace of mind Ive booked mine in with the Fiat dealer for the 19th having already had a case number from Turin Fiat .
I also asked Fiat if I needed any other mods on my 3.0lts but they said no . So now im curious about the engine cover mods - what is it and does it need to be done on all newish Fiats ?

Wyn

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Jan 18, 2010
538
138
Airdrie Scotland
Funster No
9,996
Exp
6 years and 20 years as a tugger
Hi Bill , For peace of mind Ive booked mine in with the Fiat dealer for the 19th having already had a case number from Turin Fiat .
I also asked Fiat if I needed any other mods on my 3.0lts but they said no . So now im curious about the engine cover mods - what is it and does it need to be done on all newish Fiats ?

Wyn

I have the 08 Model it had the water funnel fited when new just below the windscreen open the bonnet if you see a black cover over the main eng then its done if not contact Fiat and tell them 10min job this covers the iinjectors



Bill:thumb:
 

CCR-Diver

Free Member
Dec 26, 2009
1
0
West Sussex
Funster No
9,722
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
5 years
Maybe this is because so few converters use the Citroen badged version of the Sevel X2/50 van?

I have not seen any Citroen based motorhomes in the UK, the only Citroen Relay / Jumper vans are non-converted commercial units (mainly couriers and builders vans) and we would not know about them having this issue.

BTW, our 2007 Adria Twin has the 3 Litre 160BHP engine and were told that this model should not suffer from this issue, which mainly affects the 2.3 120/130BHP model. Has anyone else with the same base van as us had any problems?

Tony
 

gixermark

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Sep 8, 2009
105
4
Hereford
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MH
None
Exp
2 years ! Ex "Tugger" of 7 years + !!
Hi All,
I'm new to motorhoming and have only had my m/h a couple of months during which time it's been laid up most of the time because of the weather (no comments please!) so I'm intruiged by the comments about the problem with reverse gear judder on Fiat x250 & problems with water ingress into the engine compartment. I've not had chance to really test mine out but I am yet to identify problems.
I have 3 questions.
1. How do I know if the mod to prevent the water problem has been done?
2. Should I contact Fiat about getting these mods done anyway, as the warranty expires at end of this month?
3. Do people think that emailing Fiat UK is the right thing to do in the first instance?

Any advice would be much appreciated!.:RollEyes:

Just adding my pennies worth to kinsleyboy's thread!:shout:

We have just paid a deposit on a 57 plate ( 15/01/08 registered ) 3.0ltr Swift Kontiki 669 and having owned our 2001 Auto Trail Arapaho on a Fiat Ducato base with no driving problems, I am now a wee bit confused re this 'judder' problem and the water ingress into the engine bay on the X250!

I too have contacted Fiat this morning only to be told ' No known problem with the 3.0ltr'!!!Easy way out,eh!

What should I be looking for when engaging reverse and actually reversing re this 'judder'? Is it like clutch-slip or does the whole van 'judder' ?

Test driving it this Saturday so I can give it a good seeing to then.

Also, what am I looking for re the engine cover recall ..... what did it look like before and what should it look like once the recall has been carried out?

Appreciate some assistance re this as it is a lot of money we are shelling out but have not done so yet !!!!:cry:

Thanks in advance,

Mark :thumb:

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bullyfuller201

Free Member
Dec 2, 2009
7
1
Funster No
9,548
Well, thats it, took Milly (the motorhome) to the dealer today to have a new reverse gear fitted, perhaps new mounts as well. It will take a few days so once I get her back I shall let you know how we got on.

Interestingly, the dealer has already carried out one recall that only involved mounts and this apparently worked. He doesn't know why some are getting the gear changed as well.

The dealer has a steep ramp at the back of his yard so I shall be trialling the mods before I leave the site. Here's hoping!

Rgds
Bill

Hi

After a big fight with Fiat they have agreed to sort out my Hobby 750 2007 judder, i had a job to find a Fiat dealer to take a 5 ton van though and ended up at Brownhills (120 miles away) Fiat are sending all the parts from Italy , and according to Brownhills the mod includes New gearbox,clutch and mountings. I am waiting for Brownhills to contact me when they have parts, so will keep you in touch. On a slightly different note my Van had the water ingress mods done at about a year old , water still poured in and on to the new engine cover , this was no real problem until i took van skiing to italy and water froze all over drive belts and ripped drive belts off when i started in morning, 1 week after that ice formed in timing belt housing and belt jumped 4 teeth bending valves etc, i had to have a new head because the water over the years had caused so much corrosion everything was rotted in the head. Fiat dont want to know so i am taking them to court to reclaim my 5000 euros ! Has anybody heard of simular who can help ! sorry to go on !
 

hilldweller

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Dec 5, 2008
605
36,108
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From Aug 2007
i am taking them to court to reclaim my 5000 euros ! Has anybody heard of simular who can help ! sorry to go on !

Much sympathy and congratulations on getting the gearbox authorised. You look like a person who isn't going to give up, we're all behind you !

There are people who glibly say "oh mine's alright" but here you show how you need to take a much broader view.

I've never heard of ice on belts doing that. Staggering. Bet that wasn't the word you used.
 

hilldweller

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2008
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Zilch Mk1
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From Aug 2007
What should I be looking for when engaging reverse and actually reversing re this 'judder'? Is it like clutch-slip or does the whole van 'judder' ?

Also, what am I looking for re the engine cover recall ..... what did it look like before and what should it look like once the recall has been carried out?

Mark :thumb:

Google should give you loads of good hits, many on the dark side. Mega threads. First an emphatic "There is nothing wrong" but slowly but surely the internet defeated Fiat. There were hints that to "hard cases" got a non-disclosure agreement and new parts" then it came out into the open.

I recall descriptions of engine shaking so badly parts of the transmission snapped.

I have seen official instructions to rev it quite hard and slip the clutch to avoid judder, they don't mention is the same sentence that they will never replace a burned out clutch FOC because it's open to abuse.

The steeper the hill you can find the better. From the above I guess you drop the clutch at low revs to provoke it. Would also be good the load the weight, take all the family for a ride.

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meanders

Funster - Life Member
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Jun 28, 2008
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One word of advice regarding the judder recall, you need to keep ringing Brownhills to check if the parts are in as they may overlook you. We continually phoned until one day they said "we have just got 2 in, & you can have the second one" !! All fixed now and we have had no further problems since. We also had a problem with water ingress, had the fix done but the problem was a trapped windscreen washer pipe which was leaking onto the engine.
 

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