Restricted licence & A-Class? (1 Viewer)

Aug 3, 2015
99
117
Shropshire
Funster No
37,458
MH
PVC
Exp
3 years campervan, many as a tugger
Hi,
A aargh! - I'm totally betwattled now so I thought I would ask you lovely lot for help.
We thought it would be a good idea to change from our PVC to include our Celia (who is an adult with a learning disability) in the MH with us rather than pitching her a tent close by so that we could tour more conveniently and she could be warmer at night when she joins us for a holiday.
We found just the job in a Rapido 9048df A-Class. It is under 7m and has the exact layout we would like - overcab bed for when Celia joins us, front lounge to make 2 singles for us.
Then the complications started......
The Rapido was listed as 3.5 t weight. Then another dealer said no, it's 3.7.
Meanwhile, the chief driver is on a restricted licence due to diabetes so DVLA say he cannot drive a vehicle over 3500kg "Gross vehicle weight" (GVW)
I looked at various reviews and adverts and they Quote "MTPLM", "MGW", " chassis plate weight" and even "MIRO" - also, nowhere could I find a definitive weight to tell me if the chief could drive it on his license or not - help!
Seems our alternatives are to a) Give up on A-Class vans, or b) try and get the license restriction lifted.
Meanwhile, what on earth do all these abreviations mean and how do they relate to GVW?
Or Does anybody know of a sub - 3500 kg A-Class that would suit us (£45k max)?
Yours confusedly,
Chris
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
I'm sure there are loads of people on here that can help you.
We have a sub 3.5 tonnes A class but they're increasingly difficult to find.
It's an Exsis SK or SG.
It's also sub 6 metres though
It's not the Exsis-i range.
 
Last edited:

RowleyBirkinQC

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 20, 2014
2,336
222,879
Dazed & Confused
Funster No
33,417
MH
A Class
Exp
Since 2007
I think there are newer ranges of A Class which target the 3500kg licence limitation market, such as Hymer Exsis-i or similar, to have a useable payload at that weight.

As an example of an older A class model, we have a 2011 Burstner Aviano i645 plated at 3500kg and circa 6.8m in length which has circa 500kg payload.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Hils and Glenns

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 13, 2015
1,377
66,968
N Yorks
Funster No
37,620
MH
Hymer B 674
Exp
Since 2015
Hi Have you checked what the restrictions are for diabetes and driving group 2 ? If not I've put a link in to the criteria they use.

We successfully appealed for my husband with a heart condition.
 

funflair

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 11, 2013
19,199
29,888
Guisborough
Funster No
29,351
MH
MORELO palace
Exp
since 2012
Hi,
A aargh! - I'm totally betwattled now so I thought I would ask you lovely lot for help.
We thought it would be a good idea to change from our PVC to include our Celia (who is an adult with a learning disability) in the MH with us rather than pitching her a tent close by so that we could tour more conveniently and she could be warmer at night when she joins us for a holiday.
We found just the job in a Rapido 9048df A-Class. It is under 7m and has the exact layout we would like - overcab bed for when Celia joins us, front lounge to make 2 singles for us.
Then the complications started......
The Rapido was listed as 3.5 t weight. Then another dealer said no, it's 3.7.
Meanwhile, the chief driver is on a restricted licence due to diabetes so DVLA say he cannot drive a vehicle over 3500kg "Gross vehicle weight" (GVW)
I looked at various reviews and adverts and they Quote "MTPLM", "MGW", " chassis plate weight" and even "MIRO" - also, nowhere could I find a definitive weight to tell me if the chief could drive it on his license or not - help!
Seems our alternatives are to a) Give up on A-Class vans, or b) try and get the license restriction lifted.
Meanwhile, what on earth do all these abreviations mean and how do they relate to GVW?
Or Does anybody know of a sub - 3500 kg A-Class that would suit us (£45k max)?
Yours confusedly,
Chris

GVW=gross vehicle weight
MTPLM=maximum technical permissible laden mass (as it says and same as above) you want this one to be less than 3500kg
MGW=maximum gross weight (as above)
MIRO=mass in running order (this is the vehicle mass with some basics like fuel some water and some gas, also including the driver) if you subtract this from the MTPLM you will show payload which has to be used for all passengers clothes food etc, but be careful as some vans show MIRO as a basic van and it may have many extras fitted which eat up payload, the only safe way is a weighbridge.

Martin
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
MAM/MTPLM (max authorised weight) is the GVW (gross vehicle weight).
MIRO is mass in running order which is normally calculted by the ex works weight before any extras are fitted and includes allowances for a driver at 75kg, 90% fuel, 20Lt of water, ans a single 11kg aluminium gas cylinder. This varies between manufacturers some don't allow for any water.

So you need to take the MIRO and add to that any factory fitted and dealer fitted extras then take that figure from MAM to give you the payload. For example an awning will be about 40kg, 2nd battery 28kg, 2x steel gas bottles instead of the single alloy about 25kg etc, The van may have a comfort pack and large fridge adding another 100-150kg.
Then you need to add the weight of the passengers say another 100-120kg, then add all your cooking equipment and clothes in fact everything you will take with you then, and if you travel with a full water tank add another 120kg.
Add all this together and take from the 3500 MAM and see what you have left.

For 3 adults I would think you need a payload (difference between MAM and MIRO) of at least 700kg. I can't find the MIRO for the Rapido you are looking.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
Hi,
A aargh! - I'm totally betwattled now so I thought I would ask you lovely lot for help.
We thought it would be a good idea to change from our PVC to include our Celia (who is an adult with a learning disability) in the MH with us rather than pitching her a tent close by so that we could tour more conveniently and she could be warmer at night when she joins us for a holiday.
We found just the job in a Rapido 9048df A-Class. It is under 7m and has the exact layout we would like - overcab bed for when Celia joins us, front lounge to make 2 singles for us.
Then the complications started......
The Rapido was listed as 3.5 t weight. Then another dealer said no, it's 3.7.
Meanwhile, the chief driver is on a restricted licence due to diabetes so DVLA say he cannot drive a vehicle over 3500kg "Gross vehicle weight" (GVW)
I looked at various reviews and adverts and they Quote "MTPLM", "MGW", " chassis plate weight" and even "MIRO" - also, nowhere could I find a definitive weight to tell me if the chief could drive it on his license or not - help!
Seems our alternatives are to a) Give up on A-Class vans, or b) try and get the license restriction lifted.
Meanwhile, what on earth do all these abreviations mean and how do they relate to GVW?
Or Does anybody know of a sub - 3500 kg A-Class that would suit us (£45k max)?
Yours confusedly,
Chris
This is the Exsis SK
Screenshot_20170305-132338.png

Different colours are available
 

funflair

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 11, 2013
19,199
29,888
Guisborough
Funster No
29,351
MH
MORELO palace
Exp
since 2012
I have seen the Rapido listed at 3500 and 3700 MTPLM and one advert showing 3170 MIRO so add to that a few extras as Lenny says and you have next to no payload and if you intend 2 passengers I think it could be a problem.

Martin

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
May 7, 2016
7,187
11,611
West Sussex
Funster No
42,951
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 2003
I have been looking into this issue because I am not sure I want to jump through medical hoops every three years after reaching 70. Making sure there is enough difference between MIRO (sometimes listed as weight in running order) and the maximum weight of 3500kg is for me the key calculation.

Both Hymer and Carthago advertise lightweight A Class units and both very helpfully give the weights of all the extras you might want to add. For me a payload capacity of at least 400kg and preferably more seems reasonable. So, starting with a MIRO of say 2840kg (Hymer Exsis i 588) and adding on the weight of all the extras I want at 163kg (engine upgrade, auto, tow bar etc.) I get a total of 3003kg. This leaves a 497kg payload for passengers, clothes, food and other kit.

The advertised payload is a helpful starting point but it can be quickly eaten up by packages and extras. However, there are A Class motorhomes out there that carefully specified fit into the sub 3500kg category.
 
OP
OP
Attila the Hen
Aug 3, 2015
99
117
Shropshire
Funster No
37,458
MH
PVC
Exp
3 years campervan, many as a tugger
Hi Have you checked what the restrictions are for diabetes and driving group 2 ? If not I've put a link in to the criteria they use.

We successfully appealed for my husband with a heart condition.
Fantastic! I've checked the guide and am very confident we can successfully appeal against the restriction as chief driver already meets all the conditions except actually filling in the forms. Thank you very much indeed. I'm still tempted to try and see if we can find a light A-Class however, but have the reassurance of knowing we could go for a heavier van if we needed to. Thanks again, Chris

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Hils and Glenns

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 13, 2015
1,377
66,968
N Yorks
Funster No
37,620
MH
Hymer B 674
Exp
Since 2015
Fantastic! I've checked the guide and am very confident we can successfully appeal against the restriction as chief driver already meets all the conditions except actually filling in the forms. Thank you very much indeed. I'm still tempted to try and see if we can find a light A-Class however, but have the reassurance of knowing we could go for a heavier van if we needed to. Thanks again, Chris
If you do decide to appeal let me know if I can help. It might be worth doing anyway as it would give you choices in the future.
 

Alistair33

Free Member
Aug 23, 2016
1,079
3,258
North Yorkshire
Funster No
44,753
MH
Hymer
Exp
None
I'm sure there are loads of people on here that can help you.
We have a sub 3.5 tonnes A class but they're increasingly difficult to find.
It's an Exsis SK or SG.
It's also sub 6 metres though
It's not the Exsis-i range.
Our Exsis I 598i was around 2890kg out of the factory
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
Our Exsis I 598i was around 2890kg out of the factory
Tbf, I have no knowledge of the Exsis-i range. All I meant was the original Exsis range before Hymer returned hashed the brand

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
See the given gvw on here as you don’t say your year

Broken Link Removed
From that it looks like the MIRO is 3080, add some extras to that and you probably have a payload of 250kg, I don't think it's possible to run at 3500Kg, really needs to be on the optional 4000kg chassis.
Also the tolerance of the ex worksweight is =/-5% so it could be a 154kg heavier. The only vans I have know to be lower than the given weight is Hymer's all three we have had have been.
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
I have been looking into this issue because I am not sure I want to jump through medical hoops every three years after reaching 70. Making sure there is enough difference between MIRO (sometimes listed as weight in running order) and the maximum weight of 3500kg is for me the key calculation.

Both Hymer and Carthago advertise lightweight A Class units and both very helpfully give the weights of all the extras you might want to add. For me a payload capacity of at least 400kg and preferably more seems reasonable. So, starting with a MIRO of say 2840kg (Hymer Exsis i 588) and adding on the weight of all the extras I want at 163kg (engine upgrade, auto, tow bar etc.) I get a total of 3003kg. This leaves a 497kg payload for passengers, clothes, food and other kit.

The advertised payload is a helpful starting point but it can be quickly eaten up by packages and extras. However, there are A Class motorhomes out there that carefully specified fit into the sub 3500kg category.
Our last van was an Exsis i678, MIRO of 2920, we gave up trying to run at 3500kg and upgraded to 3850 we were still on the limit on the rear axle. It was just about possible to run at 3500 but we like to run with full tanks and the Exsis has a small water tank (and it's behind the rear axle) of only 100Lt so we used to carry another 40Lt in garage also have e-bikes that total nearly 50kg.

Need to be careful fitting a towbar with the rear axle limit, the 2000kg limit can be upgraded if you change the tyres and fit air suspension that will upgade it to 2240kg but you will loose about 50kg of payload due to the additional weight.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Oct 2, 2008
4,434
7,886
Salopia
Funster No
4,247
MH
Duro 6x6 Overlander
Exp
since 1968
Re your original selection rapido you need to get it weighed to see what it actually weighs and then work out if you can realistically operate it at a GVW of 3500 , taking in to a/c what is in the vehicle when you weighed it and fluids on board , what you all weigh and what you need extra to take with . If this is below 3500 then you can down plate it ( a paper exercise) and drive on existing restriction . with the caveat that if you were to be stopped and found to be over the consequences would be more severe . This is done frequently with vehicles to get below the 7500kg threshold.
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
Fantastic! I've checked the guide and am very confident we can successfully appeal against the restriction as chief driver already meets all the conditions except actually filling in the forms. Thank you very much indeed. I'm still tempted to try and see if we can find a light A-Class however, but have the reassurance of knowing we could go for a heavier van if we needed to. Thanks again, Chris
As mentioned the Hymer Exsis also the Carthago Tourer & Compact Line are just possible to run at 3500kg but it will be very tight with 3 adults.

We bit the bullit and had the new van on the 4500kg chassis it's a nice comfortable feeling knowing when you are fully loaded you still have 500-600kg of spare payload. Just hope I pass the medical in 3 years time.
 
Mar 23, 2012
9,447
31,631
sleights
Funster No
20,245
MH
c class
Exp
1
Depends why you want an A-class. The lighter ones seem to offer little more space than coachbuilt ones the Hymer sk looks to me like a c-class really!.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
Attila the Hen
Aug 3, 2015
99
117
Shropshire
Funster No
37,458
MH
PVC
Exp
3 years campervan, many as a tugger
Thank you very much everyone, there's some really good advice here. The offer of help with the license was particularly kind. For the minute, I think we will carry on looking in case we can find a light A-class with sufficient payload. Thank goodness we haven't got as far as buying anything yet so the continuing suggestions are welcome.
 
OP
OP
Attila the Hen
Aug 3, 2015
99
117
Shropshire
Funster No
37,458
MH
PVC
Exp
3 years campervan, many as a tugger
Depends why you want an A-class. The lighter ones seem to offer little more space than coachbuilt ones the Hymer sk looks to me like a c-class really!.
The main attraction is the drop- down bed as none of us are particularly agile/ small enough to be comfortable in an overcab bed. We also don't want a fixed double - awkward or what? Could be we end up sticking with the tent & our Autocruise Tempo PVC, which we are very happy with. (Not enough dosh for a new coach built with the drop down bed)
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
Tbf, I have no knowledge of the Exsis-i range. All I meant was the original Exsis range before Hymer returned hashed the brand
They are on their 4th incarnation, the original, the ford based i and then the Fiat based i and the latest i has the new front end the same as the DL also has the double skinned aluminium body.

upload_2017-9-29_18-50-7.png
upload_2017-9-29_18-50-50.png
upload_2017-9-29_18-51-53.png
upload_2017-9-29_18-52-45.png

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,698
147,638
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
The main attraction is the drop- down bed as none of us are particularly agile/ small enough to be comfortable in an overcab bed. We also don't want a fixed double - awkward or what? Could be we end up sticking with the tent & our Autocruise Tempo PVC, which we are very happy with. (Not enough dosh for a new coach built with the drop down bed)
To get a fixed double in a short/light van would mean a transversved across the back, island beds are getting scarce a lot of manufacturers are dropping them, most popular layout at the moment is Twin singles at the back. Surprisingly there are quite a few shortish/light vans with twin singles.
 
Last edited:

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
That's correct they was only the one version on the Ford and I think only 2 models.
A later version though. The Exsis SK and SG were the original Exsis. It also appears through the owners (at exsistravagansa) that they are all concepts. Each one is different in one way or another.
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top