Residency

GerTee

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Burstner iXeo
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Since 2016 - UK & Europe
Evening Funsters, we’re looking at possibly moving abroad, but need some intel on which of our chosen countries may be our easiest to get in to. The list is not unusual, Spain, France and Portugal. We look forward sifting through your responses 😊
 
Hi.
Portugal ticks all our boxes. just had to Upgrade res-permit,the old one had EU on it somewhere. Pros and Cons . people are super. Depending on what sort of property you buy,you may find yourself paying very little rates,check that out
Note. If doing up property,KEEP all reciepts with IVA/VAT. This can then be used to offset tax if you sell on as you have proof of the money you have layed down.
See a house-like it,TIME..it could be owned/shared between extended families,they all have to be contacted,all over the world.
Barking dogs- Church Bells. Go back and see it as often as you can to avoid this hassle.
Mains water-Well.Some of the wells waters cannot be drunk,you can have a test done. We run both systems together,cold tap in the kitchen Mains the rest of the house, heating,showering washing etc,water from the well. Should the Well pump fail,we can direct ALL water needs to come from the mains.
I don't do money,but,i am bring all my/our Tax affairs over to Portugal,i think its a must now.
Vehicles. Time limit on how long you can keep them on UK plates.
Best of luck with your decision. We live in a rural area about 40 miles inland from Coimbra and i am the only one in the village without a.............. STILL !! or tractor. LOVE IT.
Tea Bag
 
We were last there in 2019 and everything in the supermarkets was more expensive than the UK. Talking to people who lived there it seemed like utilities were more too. I don't suppose it's got any better. Have you spent any time there?
When we were full timing we thought we might find somewhere we'd like to live and travelled all over Europe. Finally, we realised that unless you were good at languages you'd always be on the margins of local life.
John picks up languages easily (I don't) but he found that it was difficult to go past small talk.
We didn't want to live where there were loads of Brits either. However, now I think that maybe Spain with an ex pat community would have been good.
I really missed things like the library, evening classes, going to the theatre, films etc.
Typing this made me wonder what it is you're looking for?

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France was expensive this year as it has always been compared to Spain but no shortages in the supermarket and shops seemed to be an abundance of everything. We were last there (Cap adge) 10 years ago and the campsite we used was a good mix and most were very friendly and spoke English, especially if you attempted a bit of French. This time full of French and apart from the odd ones ie reception and the restaurant. they seemed not to care too much about the English. It was only when we moved down to South of France they became a bit more friendly and the Swiss/German and Austrian campers(there 2 weeks 1/2 term) were much more open and friendly and of course spoke perfect English. I remember asking some veterans at Arromanches on DDay rememberance weekend a few years ago, what they thought of the French, some of the vets having fought thru to Germany and with no hesitation, we were told round there (Normandy)they loved the French and French were great to them but as to the rest of the France they went thru they said they should have kicked the ------ out and we should have kept it ! So I tend to agree with the last post that unless you are good at their language and throw yourself into there lifestyle you would struggle. Or surround yourself with expats as my brother has.
 
I toured Australia with a French Stunt team in the 1960/70's and, because I was one of the few Transport Managers to speak French in Australia at the time, I was given the position of 'Roustabout' (Arena manager).

One of the most important lessons I learn during that time was, even If you can prove (without any possible doubt) that the French man is to blame for a certain situation. It will never be accepted by the French Boss.

If you move to France and you have a problem, do not expect it will be a French man to blame! :LOL:

PS. don't get me wrong, I love the French and their loyalty to one another but, unless you are fluent in their language, (even then you only have a 50/50 chance) do not expect to win any arguments. :LOL:
 
We reside in Spain...it suits us, and we completed and integrated while it was a simple procedure...it's not as easy or cost effective now, although it still can be achieved..
Most of us were allowed to exchange our Driving License without any issues, however that is a nightmare for so many, some being unable to drive and others having to take driving tests, which parts requires the need to speak Spanish.
Vehicles remain a big issue...re-maticultion is costly as is import taxation..
Health cover should be looked at in great depth....this is very costly for new applicants.
Taxation is unusual...difficult to understand, however I believe we pay less than we would had we still lived in the UK..
We love it here, but for new applicants it's certainly not as simple as it used to be..
My vote goes to....... Portugal...as Tea Bag sells it very well.
 
Surely the main criteria when moving abroad is where you'd like to live and feel the most "at home"?

There are countries I love to visit, but I wouldn't want to live in.

Saying that, Portugal, of the three countries listed, has the easiest/cheapest visa rules (generally). Greece also has an easier, lower cost, visa.

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Surely the main criteria when moving abroad is where you'd like to live and feel the most "at home"?

There are countries I love to visit, but I wouldn't want to live in.

Saying that, Portugal, of the three countries listed, has the easiest/cheapest visa rules (generally). Greece also has an easier, lower cost, visa.
As I understand it the Greek golden visa doesnt even require you to be there - talk about selling passports! Its a shame its not a bit closer.
 
France was expensive this year as it has always been compared to Spain but no shortages in the supermarket and shops seemed to be an abundance of everything. We were last there (Cap adge) 10 years ago and the campsite we used was a good mix and most were very friendly and spoke English, especially if you attempted a bit of French. This time full of French and apart from the odd ones ie reception and the restaurant. they seemed not to care too much about the English. It was only when we moved down to South of France they became a bit more friendly and the Swiss/German and Austrian campers(there 2 weeks 1/2 term) were much more open and friendly and of course spoke perfect English. I remember asking some veterans at Arromanches on DDay rememberance weekend a few years ago, what they thought of the French, some of the vets having fought thru to Germany and with no hesitation, we were told round there (Normandy)they loved the French and French were great to them but as to the rest of the France they went thru they said they should have kicked the ------ out and we should have kept it ! So I tend to agree with the last post that unless you are good at their language and throw yourself into there lifestyle you would struggle. Or surround yourself with expats as my brother has.

in the 30 odd years of touring Europe,mainly France , by motorbikes and motorhome,I have on the whole found the French mostly friendly. Obviously there are the exceptions like they’re are in every country.
 
We owned a small house in France for a few years, our neighbours were brilliant, could not have asked for more. It really does help if you can speak even a small amount of French. I believe some of the reluctance to engage is that people don't want to feel compelled to try and use a foreign language in their own country. Most people can manage Bonjour or Merci afterall.
 
Another vote for Portugal from us 👍
We are in the Algarve so the weather is a huge bonus. The Portuguese people are friendly, most things are way cheaper - especially the wine ;) than the uk and other European countries and you can be as near or as far away from expats as you like. If you can master some of the language, it is appreciated but not essential. We just use Google translate when we get stuck.
The golden visa scheme is still available here but I believe the value and locations available have changed recently. There is also a D7 visa scheme but it’s not straightforward to apply for (so I’ve been told!) and needs to be renewed every 12 months??
If you Google ”living in Portugal/France/Spain“ etc there are some useful websites including our own government with plenty of information. There is also a online version in English of The Portugal News which has lots of up to date info.
 
Be aware that you most likely have to apply whilst still in your country of residence, certainly that is the case for Portugal. You must apply in the U.K., and it’s the D7 visa you’ll probably want. It’s not as simple as it used to be, and you need to prove a certain level of income etc. The visa is a ‘route’ to gaining residency, not residency itself. ( it’s too complicated to explain🤦‍♂️🤣)
if you use FB, there’s one very useful place I can refer you to😉👍

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We both love France and it was the obvious choice to retire to. But the year round weather was too cold.
Spain had better weather but not keen and still cold winters.
So Lanzarote won in the end :)
 
Can't talk about France other than the drivers are woeful and it seems more expensive generally than Spain. I lived briefly in northern Italy and it was lovely but I was a bit worried about how the people in and around Milan judged you by your clothes and your car - and everyone had 2 or 3 jobs to pay for it all.

Northern Spain was much more 'normal', with a rather strong 'alternative' streak which appealed to me. I had an access to the area through my wife, but now that we're divorcing and I'm finding my own, new friends separate to the relationship, I'd still not return to Ireland or the UK - 9 months of summer here and you do pay less tax with things remaining relatively affordable (apart from bricks&mortar for sale or rent)

Biggest tip to anyone thinking of moving abroad - you really do need to speak a bit of the language and this'll require you to put yourself out of your comfort zone and not be embarrassed. Without this, you'll never feel even a little integrated and it could pose serious issues for practical things which are simple at home but much more exacting or bureaucratic abroad.
 
Barking dogs-
Yeah what is it about barking dogs .we rented 2 properties for a week's holiday in each last year near prainde roche and I hardly slept in either of em thanks to the surrounding 4 neighbours dogs taking shifts to do the barking.
One would stop then the other would start..all night and day.
 
I don't think you have the option to come here at the moment? I think the 500k property with residency has been suspended at the mo due to the war ?
Lots of top end UA registered cars around marina Alta. Estate agents tell me a lot of big properties too. I wonder how many Ukrainians are taking in refugeees in Spain ?. According to the Ukrainian taxi driver I was with this week, probably, none.

We reside in Spain...it suits us, and we completed and integrated while it was a simple procedure...it's not as easy or cost effective now, although it still can be achieved..
Most of us were allowed to exchange our Driving License without any issues, however that is a nightmare for so many, some being unable to drive and others having to take driving tests, which parts requires the need to speak Spanish.
Vehicles remain a big issue...re-maticultion is costly as is import taxation..
Health cover should be looked at in great depth....this is very costly for new applicants.
Taxation is unusual...difficult to understand, however I believe we pay less than we would had we still lived in the UK..
We love it here, but for new applicants it's certainly not as simple as it used to be..
My vote goes to....... Portugal...as Tea Bag sells it very well.
I am hoping this will change over time. Becoming easier and simpler.
As I understand it the Greek golden visa doesnt even require you to be there - talk about selling passports! Its a shame its not a bit closer.
Really ! ? Interesting
in the 30 odd years of touring Europe,mainly France , by motorbikes and motorhome,I have on the whole found the French mostly friendly. Obviously there are the exceptions like they’re are in every country.
Complete contrast to my travels and living in France. I’ve visited almost every region , department in France. I’ve found the riviera to be the toughest people to get on with, Bretons the nicest people in France.
Another vote for Portugal from us 👍
We are in the Algarve so the weather is a huge bonus. The Portuguese people are friendly, most things are way cheaper - especially the wine ;) than the uk and other European countries and you can be as near or as far away from expats as you like. If you can master some of the language, it is appreciated but not essential. We just use Google translate when we get stuck.
The golden visa scheme is still available here but I believe the value and locations available have changed recently. There is also a D7 visa scheme but it’s not straightforward to apply for (so I’ve been told!) and needs to be renewed every 12 months??
If you Google ”living in Portugal/France/Spain“ etc there are some useful websites including our own government with plenty of information. There is also a online version in English of The Portugal News which has lots of up to date info.
Our friend has a “Certificado” and is heading to Portugal again this week for 6 months. Is that the D7 do you think ?
We both love France and it was the obvious choice to retire to. But the year round weather was too cold.
Spain had better weather but not keen and still cold winters.
So Lanzarote won in the end :)
We looked at the islands. But wanted to be able to drive somewhere more easily. How do you find the weather in winter (what is it like)?.

I find costa Blanca very good in winter with only about 3 months where it can be very cold.

When the wealthy expats here complain. I often suggest cheap flights and hotels to the canaries for a couple of months.
Yeah what is it about barking dogs .we rented 2 properties for a week's holiday in each last year near prainde roche and I hardly slept in either of em thanks to the surrounding 4 neighbours dogs taking shifts to do the barking.
One would stop then the other would start..all night and day.
We now have the same problem here. We did t when we bought it. There were just two dogs at a Spanish neighbours that barked when people or horses went by.

Then we had the big fire. It’s starting to be developed and a lot of houses being built.

Two of our ex pat Neighbours have dogs that they keep quiet.

But we now have around a dozen dogs who bark endlessly. As far as I know, all Spaniards animals. You can actually set you clock by them. It’s a valley which makes matters worse. Saturday gone, the Spanish owners put two dogs out at 8am. They were still barking at 1am.

It can be mental torture. Up-to a dozen barking dogs all setting each other off.

I’m told with some exceptions. So long as the animals have water, food and shelter. Not much you can do about it.

As for the streets caked in dog muck, that’s another very annoying downside. Lots of people walk there dogs around here. Lots of different nationalities. Never see them with bags or scooping. There are no street lights here. Getting out of a taxi outside the house at night, got to have a torch.
 
I've lived in Holland , Germany and now France. It was really easy when we were in the ECC. It started in 1976 when I got a job in Philips Eindhoven and moved to the Netherlands. We needed a resident's permit, which was just a case of a letter from your employer and queuing up in the registry office with birth certificate, passport, wedding certificate and said letter. Once you got the RP you could open a bank account and look for accommodation. We lived in a cheap hotel for a few weeks (We used to have to book the bath taps out from the owner, when you wanted a bath). We ended up with a nice flat on the 15th floor
Kalmoestraat.png


We went from there to Munich in (West) Germany and much the same sort of exercise to register for an 'Aufenthaltsgenehmigung', I worked for a number of different companies in Munich, Suzuki, Cap Gemini, Messerschmitt etc.
We stayed many happy years and started a family in Germany, you had to renew the Resident Permit every 5 years. The main thing was they wanted to be sure that you wouldn't become a burden upon the state. Private Health and Dentistry were a must.

We bought the current house in France in 2003, and it was really very relaxed compared to Germany and Holland.
piccy.png


The Notary registered everything with the mayor and resident association and I open a bank account with Credit Agricole with virtually a photocopy of the passport and that was it.

I think things maybe will be a bit more convoluted these days, but basically they want you to prove that you won't be a nuisance and can afford to live there. Private health and dentistry are needed. You've got think about where your tax affairs are and pensions etc. I am a registered German pensioner paid direct into Credit Agricole. That helps!

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Our friend has a “Certificado” and is heading to Portugal again this week for 6 months. Is that the D7 do you think ?
Our paper certificate is a “Certificado de Pedido de Título de Residência” so that could be what your friend has?
The emails from SEF have been sent out in recent weeks inviting everyone to exchange their paper certificates for the biometric cards. We get ours at the beginning of December 🤗🤗🤗
 
We reside in Spain...it suits us, and we completed and integrated while it was a simple procedure...it's not as easy or cost effective now, although it still can be achieved..
Most of us were allowed to exchange our Driving License without any issues, however that is a nightmare for so many, some being unable to drive and others having to take driving tests, which parts requires the need to speak Spanish.
Vehicles remain a big issue...re-maticultion is costly as is import taxation..
Health cover should be looked at in great depth....this is very costly for new applicants.
Taxation is unusual...difficult to understand, however I believe we pay less than we would had we still lived in the UK..
We love it here, but for new applicants it's certainly not as simple as it used to be..
My vote goes to....... Portugal...as Tea Bag sells it very well.

Martin, may I ask two questions

Do the new rules on exchanging driving apply to EU issued licences or just non-EU?

On taxation, does Spain try to tax income that only arises in say UK and tax is paid in that country, assuming it has a double-taxation agreement with Spain?

Geoff
 
Martin, may I ask two questions

Do the new rules on exchanging driving apply to EU issued licences or just non-EU?

On taxation, does Spain try to tax income that only arises in say UK and tax is paid in that country, assuming it has a double-taxation agreement with Spain?

Geoff
Hi Geoff...the problem with licence exchange is for Non EU....mainly UK, many folk missed the deadline, which the Spanish authorities extended beyond what was expected. The backlog due to the sudden surge has in itself caused further issues...
Only in the last week we read that some agreement has been reached, and that the system may be starting to turn over again..

Regarding Taxation...a double taxation treaty exists here in Spain...
I believe you are required to declare your World wide assets and pay any tax due...with the exception of Government employed in the UK and Rental income from properties owned.
Both myself and Judith were Government employed...we pay our tax on those pensions in the UK....both our state pensions are taxed in Spain.
One further point is what we get in the UK is used as part of our tax calculation here in Spain....
The Spanish Tax calculator is virtually impossible to understand....so for what it costs, we employ an accountant to make our returns...Hope this helps...👍🇪🇦

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Yeah what is it about barking dogs .we rented 2 properties for a week's holiday in each last year near prainde roche and I hardly slept in either of em thanks to the surrounding 4 neighbours dogs taking shifts to do the barking.
One would stop then the other would start..all night and day.

Similar to the problem encountered when we spent a week at a rural Gite in the Montauban area. A local kept his pack of hunting dogs at his elderly mother's house because she was stone deaf. It was the next house along the same road. The wildlife must have made the dogs bark all night long, every night. You really have to do a lot of due diligence if you want to buy abroad.
 
Hi Geoff...the problem with licence exchange is for Non EU....mainly UK, many folk missed the deadline, which the Spanish authorities extended beyond what was expected. The backlog due to the sudden surge has in itself caused further issues...
Only in the last week we read that some agreement has been reached, and that the system may be starting to turn over again..

Regarding Taxation...a double taxation treaty exists here in Spain...
I believe you are required to declare your World wide assets and pay any tax due...with the exception of Government employed in the UK and Rental income from properties owned.
Both myself and Judith were Government employed...we pay our tax on those pensions in the UK....both our state pensions are taxed in Spain.
One further point is what we get in the UK is used as part of our tax calculation here in Spain....
The Spanish Tax calculator is virtually impossible to understand....so for what it costs, we employ an accountant to make our returns...Hope this helps...👍🇪🇦

Thanks Martin

For the licence swap I assume from what you say it may be easy for my(now) Polish licence.

As for tax, at the moment all my income, pensions paid in the UK plus UK rental income must be taxed in UK, so do the Spanish try to take extra? Also is there the sort of doubt here in Poland that if one gets into the Polish tax system there would be 'difficulties' claiming the Personal Tax Free Allowance on UK income and the tax-free benefits of a UK ISA?

So far I have kept out of the clutches of the Polish tax system, although I am resident here, on advice from international accountants. The tax authorities have never contacted me.

Is it tricky in Spain?

Geoff
 
Thanks Martin

For the licence swap I assume from what you say it may be easy for my(now) Polish licence.

As for tax, at the moment all my income, pensions paid in the UK plus UK rental income must be taxed in UK, so do the Spanish try to take extra? Also is there the sort of doubt here in Poland that if one gets into the Polish tax system there would be 'difficulties' claiming the Personal Tax Free Allowance on UK income and the tax-free benefits of a UK ISA?

So far I have kept out of the clutches of the Polish tax system, although I am resident here, on advice from international accountants. The tax authorities have never contacted me.

Is it tricky in Spain?

Geoff
I'll PM you Geoff...
 
Similar to the problem encountered when we spent a week at a rural Gite in the Montauban area. A local kept his pack of hunting dogs at his elderly mother's house because she was stone deaf. It was the next house along the same road. The wildlife must have made the dogs bark all night long, every night. You really have to do a lot of due diligence if you want to buy abroad.
We did !

Many years of holidaying and over 7 years of research and looking.

March 2016 and we signed the contract.

All was good until we had the big fire, brexit, the value fell out of GBP, covid and then the war in Ukraine.

Life changes, just have to deal with it.

Good points are we still get good holiday rentals and the property has increased in value significantly.

I’ve taken to using earbuds to drown the barking dogs out if I’m in the garden on my own.
 
We did !

Many years of holidaying and over 7 years of research and looking.

March 2016 and we signed the contract.

All was good until we had the big fire, brexit, the value fell out of GBP, covid and then the war in Ukraine.

Life changes, just have to deal with it.

Good points are we still get good holiday rentals and the property has increased in value significantly.

I’ve taken to using earbuds to drown the barking dogs out if I’m in the garden on my own.
Reading with interest!…….I have a couple of cycling friends that are in the Jalon Valley area not far from you and I’m hoping to spend some time there in the future.

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