Renting versus buying a campervan (1 Viewer)

[Maloflora]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it on a search.

I've been renting motorhomes and campervans for a couple of years now across three holidays, in summer and winter. I really love the lifestyle and am looking forward to doing it a lot more in future. I'm getting a good handle on layout, size of vehicle and so on - leaning towards a 6.36m campervan rear fixed bed with extra high top (2.8m not 2.6m).

At the moment I'm working full time which really only gives me around 4 weeks a year for this kind of holiday. At that level of usage, of course it makes most sense to rent. However, I can see a point in a couple of years' time when I might semi-retire and should have a lot more time to travel. But I hope to be able to do a lot of other things as well! So I'm interested in how many weeks' usage a year does it make sense to own rather than rent?

I can appreciate that there may be 'making it your own' / freedom of choice / convenience reasons that people own irrespective of the amount of usage. But there are also probably a lot of costs that I'm not aware of, given that I've only been renting, which also have to be taken into account. A few in particular are on my mind, but I may have omitted a lot:

• Storage: I live close to central London and there's nowhere near to store a van offroad. Probably the closest site is Abbey Wood, about an hour's drive away from where I live. How much could this be a year? Is it even possible or are all the sites full?
• Depreciation and maintenance: how much do people tend to put aside for this?
• Insurance: likewise

I've kind of had it in my head to fully depreciate any van over five years - though given current resale values this might be much too pessimistic. But in this version, the calculation would go:

• Say, £80k new or very recent van
• Running costs £4k a year x 5 years = £20k
• Therefore usage should equate to (£100k / 5 years) = £20k a year
• This needs to be compared to rental costs of roughly £1,200 a week
• So it would only make financial sense to own a motorhome if used more than 16 weeks a year

Now you can adjust that number of weeks down given the freedom to adapt the van to your requirements and freedom to use whenever (though not the convenience of usage in my case, given distance to storage). But 10-15 weeks a year feels like a minimum to make it worthwhile?

Hope that all makes sense and I'm sure there's loads I've got wrong. All thoughts appreciated!

 

[LesW]

I've never tried to work out the costs of running/using our moho.

We bought it.. we use it as often as possible, (we're both retired), one thing I might add is that at 6.36m, I'd guess you'd be looking at a drop down bed rather than a fixed rear bed... or it'd be very cramped in the 'lounge' area.

 

[Arnside037]

Yes I think you are being pessimistic with your figures. If you take a residual value of the vehicle after 5 years at 50% of the original value, then your figures may be around

• Say, £80k new or very recent van
• Running costs £4k a year x 5 years = £20k
• Therefore usage should equate to ((£100k - 50% ) / 5 years) = £10k a year
• This needs to be compared to rental costs of roughly £1,200 a week
• So it would only make financial sense to own a motorhome if used more than 8 weeks a year

Then again, if you assumed that vehicle has a value at say 10 years, of 25% of its original value then the figures look even better. 2.5 weeks per year perhaps. (Please check my sums)
But in the end, its the figures that you believe are right for you that matter. For you, storage and convenience may be a deciding factor.

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[ontheroadagain]

Therefore usage should equate to (£100k / 5 years) = £20k a year

You are assuming your van will be worthless after 5 years.
It will still be worth at least £40-£50K, perhaps more if prices continue to rise.
We had our last van 3 years and only lost £3K when we traded it in 14 months ago.

 

[Lenny HB]

I think your costs are way too high, running costs shouldn't be anything like 4k a year, probably nearer to 1500 - 2k max plus fuel. Can't really count fuel as you would use it in a hire vehicle anyway.
Depreciation is very low on Motorhomes, our first van lost 5% per year over 6 years, the second one 3% per year over 3 years, the current one I'm trading and getting 8% more than I paid for it over 5 years ago.

Even if the market doesn't hold up like it is at the moment in 5 years a van will be still worth over 75% of it's new price.

 

[Maloflora]

I've never tried to work out the costs of running/using our moho.

We bought it.. we use it as often as possible, (we're both retired), one thing I might add is that at 6.36m, I'd guess you'd be looking at a drop down bed rather than a fixed rear bed... or it'd be very cramped in the 'lounge' area.

Thanks! I should explain it's just me and I found the lounge of the Adria 640SLB absolutely fine for a week. I'm going to try and hire one for three weeks in the summer and see how it feels.

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[The Wino]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find it on a search.

I've been renting motorhomes and campervans for a couple of years now across three holidays, in summer and winter. I really love the lifestyle and am looking forward to doing it a lot more in future. I'm getting a good handle on layout, size of vehicle and so on - leaning towards a 6.36m campervan rear fixed bed with extra high top (2.8m not 2.6m).

At the moment I'm working full time which really only gives me around 4 weeks a year for this kind of holiday. At that level of usage, of course it makes most sense to rent. However, I can see a point in a couple of years' time when I might semi-retire and should have a lot more time to travel. But I hope to be able to do a lot of other things as well! So I'm interested in how many weeks' usage a year does it make sense to own rather than rent?

I can appreciate that there may be 'making it your own' / freedom of choice / convenience reasons that people own irrespective of the amount of usage. But there are also probably a lot of costs that I'm not aware of, given that I've only been renting, which also have to be taken into account. A few in particular are on my mind, but I may have omitted a lot:

• Storage: I live close to central London and there's nowhere near to store a van offroad. Probably the closest site is Abbey Wood, about an hour's drive away from where I live. How much could this be a year? Is it even possible or are all the sites full?
• Depreciation and maintenance: how much do people tend to put aside for this?
• Insurance
• Say, £80k new or very recent van
• Running costs £4k a year x 5 years = £20k
• Therefore usage should equate to (£100k / 5 years) = £20k a year
• This needs to be compared to rental costs of roughly £1,200 a week

That's a bit like saying you expect to be able to buy a 5 year old MH for nothing!! If so could you link one please!
I think your costs are way over the top. We bought ours new in 2014 for £38k I reckon it's still worth £30 k roughly although that could be optimistic. Insurance this year is £200. If you want to try ownership why go brand new? If you're time limited is there someone else in the family you could share with just an idea?

 

[DangerMousy]

We both work full time, get approx 7 weeks leave and we manage 40-45 nights away in the MH per year on average.
Our running costs (last time I calculated them) are a bit over £1k per year...obviously it varies a bit, and I've not included buying equipment for the MH (as that tends to get transferred over to the new one, or sold).
In terms of depreciation....you're being far too conservative. We bought our first MH for £30k and part exchanged it for £26k 3.5 years later. We're now in the process of part exchanging our current MH and we're getting £3.5k more than we paid for it almost 3 years ago. Obviously the current market conditions are not going to last forever, but you're going to try to work this out in monetary terms then you can't ignore the residual value.

 

[Riverbankannie]

I think that Maloflora was also adding storage costs into the running costs figures. Maybe someone in the SE near London could advise on these.
On top of insurance there is also servicing for those who do not have the space and skills for DIY and a certain amount contingency for repairs. The trouble is one MH can be trouble free, and the next require a few thousand in that contingency- if, say the boiler go.

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[Maloflora]

Thanks all for the feedback on the calculation. I can see I've been too pessimistic on resale value.

Yes I included storage costs in the running costs total - £1500 a year felt reasonable but I'd really value thoughts from anyone with recent experience.

Interesting that 40-45 nights a year feels like a reasonable commitment. I've seen others on this forum talk about 15-20 weeks?

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting that 40-45 nights a year feels like a reasonable commitment. I've seen others on this forum talk about 15-20 weeks?

When we were working it used to be around 45 nights a year now retired its 120 to 150 nights.

 

[Norfolk Nige]

I've never tried to work out the costs of running/using our moho.

We bought it.. we use it as often as possible, (we're both retired), one thing I might add is that at 6.36m, I'd guess you'd be looking at a drop down bed rather than a fixed rear bed... or it'd be very cramped in the 'lounge' area.

We have an Autosleeper Kingham. Fixed rear bed, shower and toilet with lounge and kitchen. It’s 6.4 mtr PVC. Not at all cramped.

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[Abgs]

Come on .... come on !!!! You need to apply 'Man Maths' to this calculation to get the true figure ...

Deduct the cost of hotels that you would have stayed in, expensive meals you would have been forced to take, flights and hotel transfers etc etc ...

Basically buying a Camper Van is likely to save you money ! That's how I pitched the deal to my financial controller!

 

[Stealaway]

I'm going to try and hire one for three weeks in the summer and see how it feels.

What will it cost to hire the van for three weeks?

The only way to make all the cost worthwhile is to have the time to use your van.
Ideally you should be retired and have the ability to spend up to 150 nights out in it - That when the cost become acceptable and in my view worth every penny.

 

[Terry]

Approx running costs
165 or 240 £ road tax
300 / 500 insurance
200/300 servicing
100/200 Hab check
500 ish for storage
Depreciation?
Although I personally have never lost any money on any vans I have owned /// always made money come sale time But bought wisely for right money
Forgot to say simply jumping in and off Friday night after work, home Sunday night as and when feeling like it priceless

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[DangerMousy]

Interesting that 40-45 nights a year feels like a reasonable commitment. I've seen others on this forum talk about 15-20 weeks?

I reckon most of the posters on this forum are retired or semi-retired (lucky people!) so those of us who still work just have to adjust our expectations...and try not to get too green-eyed when they post about their 2 or 3 month trips

Does it make financial sense? To be honest I've no idea and I don't really care! We love our travels around Europe in the MH and we're not going to wait 15 to 20 years until we're retired before we start enjoying ourselves. Life is for living right now.

 

[Maloflora]

What will it cost to hire the van for three weeks?

The only way to make all the cost worthwhile is to have the time to use your van.
Ideally you should be retired and have the ability to spend up to 150 nights out in it - That when the cost become acceptable and in my view worth every penny.

It'll cost me around £3000 all in, including linen and cutlery and stuff like that.

 

[Maloflora]

Approx running costs
165 or 240 £ road tax
300 / 500 insurance
200/300 servicing
100/200 Hab check
500 ish for storage
Depreciation?
Although I personally have never lost any money on any vans I have owned /// always made money come sale time But bought wisely for right money
Forgot to say simply jumping in and off Friday night after work, home Sunday night as and when feeling like it priceless

Thanks for the numbers! Is that storage costs in London/SE? I wonder if it might be a lot more for me. And of course less easy to just jump in after work and ride off if it's an hour away. But still not impossible!

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[Maloflora]

Basically buying a Camper Van is likely to save you money ! That's how I pitched the deal to my financial controller!

I am my own financial controller! So I'm basically trying to persuade myself...

 

[Stealaway]

It'll cost me around £3000 all in, including linen and cutlery and stuff like that.

Wow
Is that plus fuel and ferries?

We are are good at it now but a five week tour of France/Germany would usually cost us less than £1.6k including fuel, ferries --- and food!

If you like the travelling life you should be retiring ASAP - spending your 25% tax free pension on a MoHo and enjoying life - its getting shorter by the day

 

[Terry]

Thanks for the numbers! Is that storage costs in London/SE? I wonder if it might be a lot more for me. And of course less easy to just jump in after work and ride off if it's an hour away. But still not impossible!

Some costs don’t come to as much as I said so just gave you approximately
I don’t get storage cost or habitation check and insurance is less and servicing but I gave what I think is an average to most. I would suggest that you make enquiries about London storage

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[nicholsong]

Maloflora

Let me introduce myself as someone who had the inner London problem.

I lived in Barnes SW13 and although I had a MH that was deemed compliant by Tfl I could not park it outside my house permanently, because of parking restrictions which did not allow Residents' Parking Permits for >2.5m. I could bring it in on a daily permit for loading it.

I was fortunate as I was driving for a travel company based at Heathrow and parked it there.

You seem to be thinking about buying new. I generally advise against that, especially on a first MH, as the evidence is that that is not the one people want long-term and buying new takes much more depreciation in the first years. Evidence above shows that on second-hand depreciation is much lower than your estimate.

For you buying S/H has the consequence of being able to buy a Euro 6 emissions compliant MH to enable you to enter LEZ/ULEZ - I think Abbey Wood would need Euro 6

My personal advice would be to buy S/H and maybe a non- compliant vehicle and store it outside the LEZ.

I get very angry with Tfl who cannot see that MHs which move in and out of the LEZ twice a year are producing minimal pollution.

Not easy decisions, as I know.

Geoff

 

[Maloflora]

Maloflora

Let me introduce myself as someone who had the inner London problem.

I lived in Barnes SW13 and although I had a MH that was deemed compliant by Tfl I could not park it outside my house permanently, because of parking restrictions which did not allow Residents' Parking Permits for >2.5m. I could bring it in on a daily permit for loading it.

I was fortunate as I was driving for a travel company based at Heathrow and parked it there.

You seem to be thinking about buying new. I generally advise against that, especially on a first MH, as the evidence is that that is not the one people want long-term and buying new takes much more depreciation in the first years. Evidence above shows that on second-hand depreciation is much lower than your estimate.

For you buying S/H has the consequence of being able to buy a Euro 6 emissions compliant MH to enable you to enter LEZ/ULEZ - I think Abbey Wood would need Euro 6

My personal advice would be to buy S/H and maybe a non- compliant vehicle and store it outside the LEZ.

I get very angry with Tfl who cannot see that MHs which move in and out of the LEZ twice a year are producing minimal pollution.

Not easy decisions, as I know.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Thanks so much for all this info. The thing about buying second hand is that I really feel I need the extra 20cm of height, otherwise I bump my head all the time and can't have a proper shower. I've only found vans made by Pilote, Carabus, Knaus and La Strada that have the 2m internal height. I don't know how often they'll come up second hand in the UK or in RHD versions. Which led me to assume I'd have to do a factory order.

I should confess that I have been attracted by the Compactline 138 but I really don't think I can justify all that space for one person!

 

[Maloflora]

Wow
Is that plus fuel and ferries?

We are are good at it now but a five week tour of France/Germany would usually cost us less than £1.6k including fuel, ferries --- and food!

If you like the travelling life you should be retiring ASAP - spending your 25% tax free pension on a MoHo and enjoying life - its getting shorter by the day

No that's the basic hire cost of the vehicle with a few extras thrown in.

I am tempted by early retirement I must say...

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[Brains]

We live in SE London (Inside ULEZ)
We store ours near Rochester, 25 mins down the A2 door to door.
Cost is about £700 PA

We hired 4 vans over several years before we bought ours, we found what we thought we wanted vs what we actually needed was very different, so I would always recommend hire before you buy.

 

[Lenny HB]

I should confess that I have been attracted by the Compactline 138 but I really don't think I can justify all that space for one person!

No longer than a panel van and a much niceer environment if you have cabinets instead of the drop down bed.
we have a 141 on order a little bit bigger but there is two of us.

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
Not SE London... But. C nMC club have/had a storage facility at their " USED TO BE " Amberly fields site" near Gatwick airport. VERY secure and a Power wash area just outside the compound,where you could wash down. Worth doing the figures ?
Then as said above,Owning. Those spur of the moment opertunities that crop up........... Me ? Get it bought.
Tea Bag

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[Old Gibber]

I think you also have to calculate the cost of either borrowing £80k, or the loss of interest on £80k well invested, although as been said, depreciation levels are very low at the moment.

Thinking a bit outside the box, if you continue hiring you could hire abroad for 2-3 weeks, something you wouldn't be able to do with your own motorhome if you consider places like USA or Canada. Late May and early June hirings are normally much cheaper in the US and Canada, and the campsites are quieter too. Otherwise you could hire in places in Europe that would save time and diesel to get to such as Greece or Italy. Quite an important factor when holiday time is limited.

 

[Maloflora]

Thinking a bit outside the box, if you continue hiring you could hire abroad for 2-3 weeks, something you wouldn't be able to do with your own motorhome if you consider places like USA or Canada. Late May and early June hirings are normally much cheaper in the US and Canada, and the campsites are quieter too. Otherwise you could hire in places in Europe that would save time and diesel to get to such as Greece or Italy. Quite an important factor when holiday time is limited.

That's a lovely idea and I'll definitely bear that in mind. Though I don't enjoy driving that much so I'm not sure how long I'd want to spend on the open US roads!

 

[Maloflora]

Hi.
Not SE London... But. C nMC club have/had a storage facility at their " USED TO BE " Amberly fields site" near Gatwick airport. VERY secure and a Power wash area just outside the compound,where you could wash down. Worth doing the figures ?
Then as said above,Owning. Those spur of the moment opertunities that crop up........... Me ? Get it bought.
Tea Bag

Thanks! I'll get in touch with them.

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