Renting Autotrail U shaped lounge..No seat belts (1 Viewer)

[JJandClare]

Hello Funsters… been reading this forum for a couple of years.. must say it’s brilliant source of info and I’ve finally decided to sign up!
We are looking to rent a motorhome to try it out, get an idea of what we like before we buy, etc.
Anyway there’s an Autotrail with U shaped lounge available… problem is there’s no seat belts in the lounge area, meaning wife and 4 years old son will have to travel in the back, whilst 1 year old daughter will be up front with me..Although this isn’t illegal (as I understand) it isn’t exactly safe… am
I right to pull the plug and not bother renting this motorhome? I suppose I’ve answered my own question lol. The women who owns it said there’s only a 0.4% chance of being involved in an accident. But why take the chance with precious cargo!
thanks In advance.
JJandClare

 

[Hirsch]

You already know the answer.

 

[The Coops]

For every passenger there must be a seat and a seat belt. Sorry depends on how old the van is, I think the cut off date was 18th Sept 2008. if the van is younger than that then its illegal

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[Grummyb]

I think you have answered your own question havnt you and someone has to be that .4% and do you really want to see if it is or isn't you but if your still not sure get a tennis ball and throw it as hard as you can at a greenhouse and that will give you some idea what the windscreen on the van will look like if you have the misfortune to be involved on an accident and 1 of your unsecured loved ones comes barrelling past you.

 

[Grummyb]

Oops forgot to say hello and welcome from Corby

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

.

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[Lenny HB]

I think you given yourself the answer.
Out of interest what is the age of van as if its post 2006/2007 passengers can only travel in seats with belts.

 

[JJandClare]

Van is 2007

 

[M-J]

Rear U shaped lounges in MHs don’t have travelling seats, any extra travelling seats other than the main two will be in the dinette/front lounge area if it has any.

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[JJandClare]

I think you have answered your own question havnt you and someone has to be that .4% and do you really want to see if it is or isn't you but if your still not sure get a tennis ball and throw it as hard as you can at a greenhouse and that will give you some idea what the windscreen on the van will look like if you have the misfortune to be involved on an accident and 1 of your unsecured loved ones comes barrelling past you.

Lol I get the picture

 

[Grummyb]

Rear U shaped lounges in MHs don’t have travelling seats, any extra travelling seats other than the main two will be in the dinette/front lounge area if it has any.

Must disagree with this I had a transit but I can't remember what make the body was I think it was a cheap version of hobby and that had rear u shaped lounge with 2 proper 3 point inertia seat belts

 

[Swifter]

Hello and welcome
Don’t let this put you off renting . Lots of motorhomes can he hired with the appropriate seat belts fitted .

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[M-J]

Must disagree with this I had a transit but I can't remember what make the body was I think it was a cheap version of hobby and that had rear u shaped lounge with 2 proper 3 point inertia seat belts

Very rare then, in any case I wouldn’t fancy travelling at the very rear of a motorhome.

 

[Grummyb]

Very rare then, in any case I wouldn’t fancy travelling at the very rear of a motorhome.

If was a bit of a rarity but the ex grand kids were happy in it I wished I hadn't got rid of it but hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Welcome to the forum

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[TheBig1]

sorry a failure in duty of care is the minimum you risk by having a 4 year old unbelted in the back of a motorhome. More like driving without due care and attention. Perhaps you should pose your question to social services. Please don't be blind to the danger you are considering. Find a better van to rent is my advice

 

[gus-lopez]

 

[bobandjanie]

We wouldn't carry passengers without seat belts. Bob.

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[JJandClare]

sorry a failure in duty of care is the minimum you risk by having a 4 year old unbelted in the back of a motorhome. More like driving without due care and attention. Perhaps you should pose your question to social services. Please don't be blind to the danger you are considering. Find a better van to rent is my advice

Is there any need to be such a prick? Calm yourself and stop giving it “the big 1”! (That was a joke btw!)
when you’re new to motorhoming the idea is you go on forums and ask advice because a lot of the folks here are seasoned motorhomers.

 

[Just smiffy]

Please don’t…. Would you drive around in your car without the kids being strapped in..? As mentioned there are many other motorhomes out there for you to rent with appropriate seatbelts…

also give me the name and address of this person so I can go round with my baseball bat…

 

[Dramfineday]

please do not do that. Hire a vehicle with the correct no of belts. Small persons colliding, in the event of a sudden stop, with internal fittings, seats or even windows does not bear thinking about.

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[JJandClare]

Please don’t…. Would you drive around in your car without the kids being strapped in..? As mentioned there are many other motorhomes out there for you to rent with appropriate seatbelts…

also give me the name and address of this person so I can go round with my baseball bat…

Of course not my friend. thing is when you are not accustomed to motorhomes like myself, and the person who wants to rent you the van tells you it’s legal, then you google it.. and find out it is legal, but doesn’t sit right with you, that’s why we come onto forums like this to get help.
What I don’t understand is how it is still legal to be able to carry passengers in these vehicles, when clearly there’s no seatbelts in the back!

 

[Swifter]

Is there any need to be such a prick? Calm yourself and stop giving it “the big 1”! (That was a joke btw!)
when you’re new to motorhoming the idea is you go on forums and ask advice because a lot of the folks here are seasoned motorhomers.

Whilst I understand your frustration , please edit your post to remove the insult . We are a good bunch here, but sadly this seatbelt question always seems to end up with some negative comments. I fully understand why you asked the question and you should have been given a more respectful reply. Let’s edit the post and start again . We need some positive vibes in this thread
Meanwhile, I will check out some rentals that may suit your needs

 

[Just smiffy]

What I don’t understand is how it is still legal to be able to carry passengers in these vehicles, when clearly there’s no seatbelts in the back!

Yes it may be legal but is it logical… this is where common sense comes in and you already aren’t sitting easy with it as you seem to value your kids… believe it or not we’ve had some on here that appear that they don’t and think nothing of sitting their 8yr old kids in side facing seats unrestrained and sending them off down a motorway in a tin can at 70mph….

the comments you’ve received are down to the principal of it not aimed at you personally, this is a great forum and a lot of info and help will be given if you are going to stick with motor-homing…. I’ve had a few disagreements on here with posters but I think we still talk to each other, after all we have the same thing in common…

I hope you stay with us and learn how we do things and there’s plenty of entertainment here and plenty of other info which has nothing to do with motorhomes…

but first I suggest you read some of the do’s and don’ts, especially Rule 1…

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[JJandClare]

Yes it may be legal but is it logical… this is where common sense comes in and you already aren’t sitting easy with it as you seem to value your kids… believe it or not we’ve had some on here that appear that they don’t and think nothing of sitting their 8yr old kids in side facing seats unrestrained and sending them off down a motorway in a tin can at 70mph….

the comments you’ve received are down to the principal of it not aimed at you personally, this is a great forum and a lot of info and help will be given if you are going to stick with motor-homing…. I’ve had a few disagreements on here with posters but I think we still talk to each other, after all we have the same thing in common…

I hope you stay with us and learn how we do things and there’s plenty of entertainment here and plenty of other info which has nothing to do with motorhomes…

but first I suggest you read some of the do’s and don’ts, especially Rule 1…

100% agree with you.
The backdrop to this story is this person renting the van has said they rent it out to families all the time, which is obviously troubling.
okay me asking someone is there any need to be such a prick isn’t the best way to deal with rudeness. At the same time I’ve noticed there’s a small undercurrent of nastiness from a very small minority of ppl on this forum, whose first port of call is to be nasty and rude, when people are just asking for help. Jim has a job on his hands to stamp this out. how do you stamp it out? By calling out people when they are being rude (in a more constructive way than I did obviously lol.)
All in all this is a fantastic place with good people willing to help. Hell my friend from work was able to convert a van himself, based on the info he accessed here!

 

[grumps147]

Welcome.
This is better and more clearly explained than the government website, as others have said, it’s a no.

Motorhome Seatbelt Laws In The Uk

www.salopleisure.co.uk

Thanks to Salop Leisure..

Who needs to wear a seatbelt in your motorhome?​

- If your motorhome was manufactured after 2006, you must identify the seats which you have designated as travel seats. Your motorhome must have seatbelts for all designated travel seats throughout the vehicle, and passengers are required to use them while the motorhome is in transit. Only the driver and the specified passenger seats require three-point seatbelts. The rest of the designated travel seats must have at least two point seatbelts. Side facing seats cannot be designated as travel seats.

- If your motorhome was manufactured after 1st October 1988, it must have seat belts fitted for the driver, as well as any forward-facing passengers. These seatbelts must be worn when the motorhome is in transit. Seatbelts for the driver and designated passenger must be three-point belts. Other belts fitted in the vehicle are permitted to be two or three-point belts.

- If your motorhome was manufactured before 1st October 1988, it must have seatbelts for the driver and a designated passenger in the front. It is not necessarily illegal for a rear seat passenger not to wear a seatbelt. However, the police could deem not wearing a seatbelt in the rear of the vehicle to be an offence if the motorhome is being driven at high speeds.

- Although not illegal, the government does not recommend using side facing seats in the rear while a motorhome is in transit. In the event of an accident, seatbelts might actually increase injury risk if there is a frontal collision. This is research which is cited by the EU Parliament.

Child seatbelt laws​

Child seats, including those with restraints, must be used with three-point seat belts. Laws related to child car seats are classified as such according to the height of the child. In normal circumstances, children are required to use a child seat until they reach a height of 4ft 4”, or reach the age of 12. Some child seat systems might come with additional instructions - it is important that these are complied with.

Which child seat do I need in my motorhome?

The most recent laws introduced on child safety in motor vehicles categorise child seats according to the weight of the child. The categories of child seats are as follows:

Group 0+ - Children up to 13kg: A carrier with a harness, or a baby seat which is rear facing,.

Group 1 - Children from 9kg to 18kg: A forward facing or rear facing baby seat, which uses a harness or safety shield.

Group 2 - Children from 15kg to 25kg: A high-backed booster child seat or booster-cushioned child seat that can be forward facing or rear facing, which uses a harness or safety shield.

Group 3 – Children from 22kg to 36kg: A high-backed booster child seat or booster-cushioned child seat that can be forward facing or rear facing, which uses a harness or safety shield.

You should note –

· Child seats should display the code ECE R44. If this code is not displayed, the seat cannot be used legally in the UK.

· If placing a baby seat on a front passenger seat, you must deactivate the airbag first.

Motorhome seatbelts - other considerations​

Now for some final reminders which are worth bearing in mind, how ever, experienced you are as a motorhome driver:

- Motorhome seatbelts have been developed using crash tests, and are specifically designed by motorhome manufacturers to reduce and prevent impact injuries.

- As the driver of a motorhome, ultimately it is your responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is safe for all passengers before you begin a journey.

- When reversing or driving a vehicle related to an emergency, the law does not require you to wear a seatbelt.

- There is the possibility of gaining a medical exemption to wearing a seatbelt in a motorhome. This requires a certificate from your GP.

- If you have seatbelts fitted on side facing seats, you could theoretically be prosecuted if your passengers are considered to be travelling dangerously.

- If you have modified your motorhome from its original design, and have made substantial changes including the addition of seats, you should notify the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) of this increase.

- If you aren’t sure that your motorhome’s seats have been manufactured to European regulations, check that the company is approved by the National Caravan Council (NCC) and recognises International Organization for Standardization (ISO) standards.

 

[grumps147]

Should have added the other considerations section is very important. While I have never heard of anyone being reported in a stop check they might have been.
But, and this is a big but. In the event of a serious accident even if not caused by you the investigators would go through it with a fine tooth comb, and a fine tooth comb might actually be needed in some cases for the bits of the rear end damaged in the accident.

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[TheBig1]

Sorry to come across as a dick in my first reply. As mentioned, the lack of seatbelts question comes up regularly with people having received bad advice from dealers and rental people. Not that it has been done to death. it is a very important message, A lack of designated travel seats with seatbelts leaves otherwise suitable vans unsafe to travel children particularly in. The next question is usually "can I fit more seatbelts". The answer is technically yes but the cost would be massive. It would take steel frames bolted to the chassis to attach belts to. Not only would this take nearly all the available payload, or put the van in the private HGV category, it would be impossible to get a qualified engineer to sign them off as safe. The ones already fitted are crash tested to get approval.

As said, you wouldn't even think of having a child loose in a car. The physics of a motorhome and distance any unrestrained child would be thrown would be massively more harmful. I wish you no ill will at all, just wish people would think and realise what they are asking

 

[Rugeley Tim]

I brought a motor home without rear seat belts so that I didn't have to take passengers Both my grown up kids have their own tents and if we are away and need to do the grandparent thing of looking after the kids in the school holidays they drop them off and pick them up which suits us all fine.

 

[pelican]

If your not going far ask your wife to follow you in the car

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