Remap ECU on Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD (1 Viewer)

goneroming

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After a lot of thought and research,
had my Hymer B644 remaped by Quantum Remaps.
What a great change it`s made !!
Its increased HP from 127hp to 160hp that`s + 25 % & 300Nm to 370Nm that`s 23% gain.
It has made the motorhome much more pleasent to drive, the engine is a lot more flexible, feels stronger, pulls much better, less gear changes.
There also should be a fuel gain to because you will not have to change gear as often.
 
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tonka

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I had my 2005 Autotrail 2.8jtd done and yes it made it pull a lot better, less changes etc.
However never found any real increase in mph but in some cases made it worse as I tended to drive like a boy racer :(

Maybe that's just me. :doh:

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Charlie

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A remap will increase not decrease MPG... The clutch providing it's in good condition will absolutely fine provided racing starts are avoided. Once the pedal is in the up position and the clutch fully engaged the power can br used very safely. 160 BHP while above the design parameters is not huge power.

I just love it how some love to jump in and become critics ....

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Our B544 is unmodified and the best I have ever got is around 28mpg on a long run, using the more expensive BP diesel. Normally I get around 26mpg but I drive it steadily, and don't often exceed 60. Would I like a little more power? Sometimes. When loaded I'd like to be able to get up the hill on the A30 heading North by the Fraddon/Grampound exit without having to go down to third, but I can live with that, and like plastic surgery, I don't think anything good can come from tinkering with the original spec!
 
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I've read on a number of forums that the 2.8jtd clutch often starts slipping after remapping. 25% increase in bhp is a big jump so has to put more pressure on the clutch.
 

Charlie

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Manufacturers when they set the tune on cars and vans have set of parameters they must work within . These are to get engines within certain limitations to pass stringent emisions. There are all manor of things engineers have to do to get an engine within said limits. Drive by noise tests included.

This often means an engine while conforming to the limitations is not performing at its best.

Remapping engineers have no such limits to adhere too. So they can change things like fuelling and boost pressure which will get the engine performing to its optimum.

A well remapped engine will give low down power where a stock engine doesent. This can mean not needing to change down a gear to overtake of climb a hill. They produce power where it's most effective. Great improvements can be had !!

The clutch may be well within the limits of its capability. The increases in this case are not huge so unless the clutch is badly worn or poor driving IE rapid take offs are done it will be fine.

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Charlie

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Our B544 is unmodified and the best I have ever got is around 28mpg on a long run, using the more expensive BP diesel. Normally I get around 26mpg but I drive it steadily, and don't often exceed 60. Would I like a little more power? Sometimes. When loaded I'd like to be able to get up the hill on the A30 heading North by the Fraddon/Grampound exit without having to go down to third, but I can live with that, and like plastic surgery, I don't think anything good can come from tinkering with the original spec!

Using good quality fuel is absolutely the right thing to do.. It will help restore the performance taken away by the five percent Bio content of standard pump fuel. It's additives give an an increased cetain rating and a better burn which in turn will help prevent fouling of DPFs if fitted.
There is no harm in tinkering with the engine tune so long as the tinkerer does not get greedy and look for too much power.
 

Microchip

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After a lot of thought and research,
had my Hymer B644 remaped by Quantum Remaps.
What a great change it`s made !!
Its increased HP from 127hp to 160hp that`s + 25 % & 300Nm to 370Nm that`s 23% gain.
It has made the motorhome much more pleasent to drive, the engine is a lot more flexible, feels stronger, pulls much better, less gear changes.
There also should be a fuel gain to because you will not have to change gear as often.

When we had our Hymer B584 done we had bags of power!...and the fuel consumption went from 28 mpg to 22 mpg, and it made the clutch slip when before it was perfectly OK.
the two tests were done on two long trips in France.
After 4 re-map changes I had the original mapping put back because of the poor mpg.
Better to have good fuel consumption than an over powered engine.

Keith..

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Charlie

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Sounds like the clutch was worn before the remap..
The thing to remember is a vehicle needs to be fit and healthy or increasing the power will show any weaknesses . The clutches in these heavy vehicles have a hard life anyway.
It is Very unusual to hear of worse MPG after mapping. But if the clutch was slipping your MPG would go down as power would be wasted.
 

ciderman

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the 160bhp is not a big jump and not outside the design because a high power version was made (157bhp) of the 2.8jtd
 
Oct 29, 2008
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Manufacturers when they set the tune on cars and vans have set of parameters they must work within . These are to get engines within certain limitations to pass stringent emisions. There are all manor of things engineers have to do to get an engine within said limits. Drive by noise tests included.

This often means an engine while conforming to the limitations is not performing at its best.

Remapping engineers have no such limits to adhere too. So they can change things like fuelling and boost pressure which will get the engine performing to its optimum.

A well remapped engine will give low down power where a stock engine doesent. This can mean not needing to change down a gear to overtake of climb a hill. They produce power where it's most effective. Great improvements can be had !!

Why do Fiat fit a larger turbo on their 146bhp Ducato on the LHD version if a simple remap will give a reliable result? Too much extra power through an under sized turbo is a recipe for failures. Pulling a 4+ton motorhome up a steep hill with extra welly and extra power due to a 25% increase in power makes it a lot more likely for a failure of a major component.

Ive been involved in modifying cars for a long time and before a remap you can gain extra power from fitting a better exhaust and a higher flow filter. (Better NOT bigger exhaust)Then after that you can go to remapping, but off the peg remaps are no where as near as good as getting the vehicle on a rolling road and doing a custom remapping.

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Oct 29, 2008
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the 160bhp is not a big jump and not outside the design because a high power version was made (157bhp) of the 2.8jtd

Wrong, it was 146bhp. This variant had a bigger turbo and was only made in LHD as the turbo wouldn't fit in the RHD. Plus the gear box is modified on the 146bhp version.
 

Lenny HB

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As mentioned will put a lot of strain on the clutch you need to fit a heavy duty clutch, also with that much power increase the brakes need beefing up as well. Manufacturers always fit better brakes with higher power versions and they don't spend money unnecessarily.
 
Oct 29, 2008
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As mentioned will put a lot of strain on the clutch you need to fit a heavy duty clutch, also with that much power increase the brakes need beefing up as well. Manufacturers always fit better brakes with higher power versions and they don't spend money unnecessarily.
True, I wouldn't advise 160bhp on a van without all round good sized disc brakes.

Dont forget to advise your insurers if you have had a remap.

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OP
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goneroming

goneroming

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That`s what most people would think, if you do the research its about tuning the engine
Manufacturers when they set the tune on cars and vans have set of parameters they must work within . These are to get engines within certain limitations to pass stringent emisions. There are all manor of things engineers have to do to get an engine within said limits. Drive by noise tests included.

This often means an engine while conforming to the limitations is not performing at its best.

Remapping engineers have no such limits to adhere too. So they can change things like fuelling and boost pressure which will get the engine performing to its optimum.

A well remapped engine will give low down power where a stock engine doesent. This can mean not needing to change down a gear to overtake of climb a hill. They produce power where it's most effective. Great improvements can be had !!

The clutch may be well within the limits of its capability. The increases in this case are not huge so unless the clutch is badly worn or poor driving IE rapid take offs are done it will be fine.
 
OP
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goneroming

goneroming

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That is spot on. ECU tunning can be done in different ways, 1. more speed, 2. more mid range useage, 3. or better fuel consumption.
I choose mid range, because that`s where you want it in a large vehicle. The clutch is not a problem if used sensibly, its not about go faster, the whole package just gives a better driving experience, which works for me.
 
Apr 26, 2014
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As mentioned will put a lot of strain on the clutch you need to fit a heavy duty clutch, also with that much power increase the brakes need beefing up as well. Manufacturers always fit better brakes with higher power versions and they don't spend money unnecessarily.

Our Bessacarr had a remap before we bought it. Very pleased with the power and returning 26.4 mpg on a 1700 mile trip fully loaded at 4000kgs.
Clutch was slipping when we bought it private but got cost of new clutch from seller.
Problem is it still slips when cold and get slight clutch judder on take off. Tried to source a heavy duty clutch before replacing but was told they are not available.
Any idea why it's still slipping and is a heavy duty clutch available ?

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Charlie

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So many of the components are way underdressed and within the limits of thier capabilities . Asking a moderate amount of extra power won't in most cases take said components anywhere near that limit.
We are talking modest gains not Barry boy max power stuff.
Drive anything badly and it will break. Any motorhomefun driver with common sense will use the power when it's applicable like climbing hills not drag racing from the lights .
 
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I'm not a boy racer Charlie. (y) Been driving wagons for 30 years. It just slips when cold on slight inclines. Got a price for a paddle clutch but it would be like flicking a switch. In or out.
Just wondered if the slave cylinder or master cylinder could be sticking when cold.
 

Charlie

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So many of the components are way underdressed and within the limits of thier capabilities . Asking a moderate amount of extra power won't in most cases take said components anywhere near that limit.
We are talking modest gains not Barry boy max power stuff.
Drive anything badly and it will break. Any motorhomefun driver with common sense will use the power when it's applicable like climbing hills not drag racing from the lights .

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I'm not a boy racer Charlie. (y) Been driving wagons for 30 years. It just slips when cold on slight inclines. Got a price for a paddle clutch but it would be like flicking a switch. In or out.
Just wondered if the slave cylinder or master cylinder could be sticking when cold.
I have noticed that my clutch slips briefly on occasions. The clutch on the Ducato is very light because the pedal has a spring- or gas- strut. This is set very slightly over-centre so that the tiniest movement of the pedal brings it into operation. The brief clutch slip stops immediately if I lift the pedal (lift it with my toe under the pedal) so I suspect that a small amount of wear, lack of lubrication, or mis-alignment, may be preventing the strut going over-centre. I haven't investigated further yet - mainly because, with no drivers door, it involves contortion or seat removal.
 

TheBig1

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there have been numerous cases of clutch failure immediately after remapping. on more than one van I know of even the replacement clutch failed again within a year. some of the remappers just dont want to hear about it and have left their customer without a usable vehicle, so the owner has had to go elsewhere to reset the map to original

Heavy motorhomes are not sporty cars and the extra weight makes a lot of difference.
 

Charlie

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I have to say after hearing of so many failiures on these JTD s it may be they aren't suitable for remapping and are unable to cope with the power.
The standard engines power output is low for a 2.8 it must have quite some torque though ?

Over my 40 years contracting we had dozens of vans mostly Fords and they were mapped for power and economy. None had any failures relating to the increases. Fiat obviously are not as strong .

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Jul 13, 2008
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Got mine remapped before going to Spain in January, clutch slipped a couple of times on the way to Dover on uphills in 5th gear (overtaking). Was OK driven gently. Got the new clutch and slave here ready to fit.
 

Charlie

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I'm not a boy racer Charlie. (y) Been driving wagons for 30 years. It just slips when cold on slight inclines. Got a price for a paddle clutch but it would be like flicking a switch. In or out.
Just wondered if the slave cylinder or master cylinder could be sticking when cold.

Out of interest how old is the vehicle and how many miles ?

Could it be the springs in the pressure plate becoming weak ? If the clutch pedal is hard to push down it can indicate the springs going stiff with age. A new clutch will have a lighter pedal action when its by cable. On hydraulic set ups the hydraulics may mask that though..

I would be to worried to go far in any vehicle that has the propensity to slip its clutch. I honestly cant remember the last time I had a clutch on any vehicle slip.. But a slipping clutch to me is a firm indication its near the end of its life.

A motor home is or has the same strain on its drivetrain as a fully laden van. This is All of the time. Essentially a hard working commercial van has a far easier life as they are not fully laden all of the time. A MoHo does less miles of course but when on the move the loads are there all of the time.

This leads me to wonder why vehicles used as bases for Motor homes do not have uprated clutches. In my short time in motor homing I have seen folk slipping clutches like crazy trying to get up leveling ramps.

A motor home clutch it seems gets a very hard life indeed...
 
Apr 26, 2014
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Seen them myself Charlie.
It's a 2004 and done 23,000 miles. When I bought it the clutch was definitely slipping so I had a new clutch fitted. Pedal feels fine but the nagging doubt in my mind is when I picked the van up I could see the old plate and thrust bearing on the floor but didn't see the old pressure plate. I'm hoping they put a new one in because I paid for it. I could take it back but not confident with the garage so might end up taking it to my mechanic to have a look at.

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