Refillable Gas Bottles

[Kevingrc]

Hi again, just reading a post that mentions gasit refillable bottles, where do you get these bottles refilled, what are the pros and cons of these please?

 

[irnbru]

Refill them at the petrol station. We just got ours. Keep your eye on ebay , gumtree etc. Or buy new.
We go through a lot of gas so should recuperate our £190 quickly

 

[Judge Mental]

cons = cost i guess. GasIt offer reasonably priced kit

pros = les hassle, no changing bottles, no problems travelling country to country through Europe, where LPG available in a good few fuel stations (POI available) what's not to like

 

[Deleted member 29692]

As a rough guide the cost of filling with LPG from a petrol station is just under half the cost of exchanging a calor bottle of similar size. And there are cheaper places to fill up than petrol stations so that's a worst case!

 

[Kevingrc]

Thanks folks, are there a lot of adapters needed for europe( hoping to get there eventually), do you just open the outside hatch to fill or have I read that you need an external filling point fitting?

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[scotjimland]

Thanks folks, are there a lot of adapters needed for europe( hoping to get there eventually), do you just open the outside hatch to fill or have I read that you need an external filling point fitting?

three adapters covers all EU

filling either in locker .. or external .. my prefernce was external fill point

see my post on fitting two 11kg Gaslow bottles in a Hymer 644

 

[Kevingrc]

Thanks Jim, I know I'm a pest but what are the three adapters please.

 

[DavidG58]

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when we had an LPG powered car we had one of these for use in France, never needed any other adaptor

we still have one of them and have just fitted refillable cylinders, off to France at the weekend and hope it is still the only one needed

 

[Judge Mental]

for Spain i havent bothered buying thde adapter as garages I have used seem to hold a box full. Whoever you buy the kit from will advise and supply adapters. External filler best but many manage with it inside locker door, as long as your prepared to be refused..But I don't think it happens much

 

[scotjimland]

Thanks Jim, I know I'm a pest but what are the three adapters please.

Filling Abroad
There are currently four different LPG pump nozzle connections in use across Europe. By simply screwing on one of the three foreign filling adapters you can adapt the UK connection to enable you to fill anywhere in Europe and even further afield.

UK Bayonet
This fitting is standard on all Gaslow Filler Kits
UK, Holland

01-4300: French/Italian Adapter
France, Italy, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Austria, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Sweden, Portugal, Slovenia, Switzerland and Luxembourg.

01-4305: Euro/Spanish Adapter
Spain, Germany

01-4310: Euro Adapter
Germany, Ireland, USA, Belgium, Croatia, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand.


French, Italian adapter


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Euro Spanish adapter

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Euro fill

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[Kevingrc]

A big thanks to all especially you Jim brilliant forum

 

[irnbru]

Thanks Jim, I know I'm a pest but what are the three adapters please.

Needed to know that answer too.

 

[Lenny HB]

for Spain i havent bothered buying thde adapter as garages I have used seem to hold a box full. Whoever you buy the kit from will advise and supply adapters. External filler best but many manage with it inside locker door, as long as your prepared to be refused..But I don't think it happens much

My mate got caught out in Portugal, although the garages carry the adaptors the the thread on the adaptor that fits the inlet was a totally different size.

 

[John & Joan]

We have an 85L under-slung tank and the filler is on the skirt. No problems most of the time but I have been refused twice once in the UK (Reason: They don't allow campervans to fill up) and once in France where the pump was switched off by the attendant, as I connect up. I was also refused in Italy a few years back as I went to fill the gas after filling diesel (Reason: not for cooking). Went to the next garage down the road and filled up OK.

 

[scotjimland]

I was also refused in Italy a few years back as I went to fill the gas after filling diesel (Reason: not for cooking).

likewise in France with my RV.. after filling with diesel, moved over to the LPG. the attendant rushed out when she saw me open the LPG tank locker.. can't recall the French .. but it was clear the reason was it was NOT for cooking..

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[DavidG58]

I tried to get my VAT reduced to 5% yesterday, they were having none of it, incorrectly telling me they have to pay 20% so therefore so do I

I had only spent £9 so not worth pursuing, has anybody 'got away with' getting their VAT reduced, with this gas being for heating and cooking only it should not be 20%

 

[steevie]

You usually have to pay the higher price at garage forecourts, but there is usually a propane gas specialist in most areas where you can fill with non road gas. It just depends if its going to be a trail as to whether its worth it.

 

[Judge Mental]

My mate got caught out in Portugal, although the garages carry the adaptors the the thread on the adaptor that fits the inlet was a totally different size.

Is Portugal the same as Spain?

 

[Lenny HB]

Is Portugal the same as Spain?

Newer outlets are, older ones same as France.

 

[John & Joan]

I tried to get my VAT reduced to 5% yesterday, they were having none of it, incorrectly telling me they have to pay 20% so therefore so do I

I had only spent £9 so not worth pursuing, has anybody 'got away with' getting their VAT reduced, with this gas being for heating and cooking only it should not be 20%

Countrywide and Calor main Depots (not all Calor Depots) in both cases you have to open an account although Calor will only deal with payment on the spot as their system reverts the transaction to 20% VAT otherwise. (This problem took a while to sort out and they haven't found a fix yet)
The only forecourt garage I know that will supply at 5% VAT is a Grizebeck in the south Lakes.

I contacted HMRC a few year back and had it confirmed that 5% VAT is payable on LPG used for heating and refrigeration. I gave the Grizebeck garage the letter and he keeps it pined up on view.

I have tried all the majors and they say they cannot do it because of the possibility of fraud by their staff. One garage now refuses to serve campervans at all after I showed them the letter from UKLPG. They say they cannot have their staff judging if the vehicle has a bottle/tank that is legal to be filled or not. They have had a further letter from UKLPG putting them right (UKLPG sent me a copy) but they will not budge.

They are correct in saying they have to pay 20% VAT on the gas in the tank, as is excise duty, as this is charged by HMRC on delivery to their tank and not at point of sale. However they can then reclaim the difference back, but this involves them having to account for it separately and making a claim. This is just to much effort for them.

The balance of duty on Bio Diesel used for domestic heating can be reclaimed by individuals from an HMRC unit in Gosforth (Newcastle upon Tyne) but they will not include LPG in this scheme. More pressure may change their mind.

I use 1100 litres of LPG per year on average so a saving is beneficial. However my last fill at Calor was at 0.714ppl @5% VAT. The other garage in the area was 0.65ppl including VAT at 20% I later found out.

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[John & Joan]

CUSTOMS, INTERNATIONAL TRADE
EXCISE ENQUIRIES
Crownhill Court
Tailyour Road
Plymouth
PL6 5BZ

Mr JJ Thompson,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Darlington,
Co. Durham,
xxxxxxx

Date 12th April 2012

Our Ref IT12-77299 www.hmrc.gov.uk

Your Ref

Dear Mr Thompson,

Your letter of 19th March, addressed to the Mineral Oils Reliefs Centre in Gosforth, has been
passed to this office.

Let me refer you to our public notice no.76, "Excise duty on gas for use as fuel in road
vehicles". It is available on our website www.hmrc.gov.uk. Click on "library" in the "quick
links" box on the home page; then "publications", "notices", "excise duties" and finally,
"oils/public notices".

Para.2.2 states

"If a road vehicle carries gas-powered equipment (for example, refrigerating apparatus or an exhaust
gas purifier) the gas for such equipment is liable to duty if it is drawn from or connected to a supply
which is also used to propel the vehicle, even though such equipment does not contribute to the
propulsion of the vehicle. Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an
independent supply.
Gas is not chargeable with Excise duty if it is used for heating. or for industrial or scientific purposes." -

When gas is not set aside or used as a road fuel it is not liable to excise duty and should be
bought from a supplier as such with VAT at 5%. It is for this reason that no scheme is in
place to allow recovery.

It's easy to understand why a supplier would charge excise duty. There is at first sight the
potential for the gas to be used to power the vehicle and a supplier will be wary of
undercharging duty/tax.

You can draw a supplier's attention to the public notice and emphasise that your intended
use is for heating/cooking and not for powering the vehicle. If necessary you might offer to
provide the supplier with a written declaration in which you state your intended use. This
would be something that the supplier could retain as evidence in support of a supply free of
duty. Any officer of HMRC that examines the supplier's accounts would thus be able to
satisfy him/herself that a supply was legitimately made without duty and with VAT at the
reduced rate.

Yours sincerely,

Robert White

 

[Minxy]

There's a garage on the A18/M180 junction near Elsham/Brigg: DN20 0PA where its only 58.9p a litre.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

However they can then reclaim the difference back, but this involves them having to account for it separately and making a claim. This is just to much effort for them.

This is probably the biggest reason why most of them won't do it. There is absolutely no incentive for them to have a separate accounting system in place is there? They get to do some extra work for nothing. Can't see that catching on.

 

[Stroppy Bird]

There's a garage on the A18/M180 junction near Elsham/Brigg: DN20 0PA where its only 58.9p a litre.

55.9p litre near Sleaford if you pass that way to your other place

 

[Lenny HB]

Only paid 54p in Brighton.

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[Minxy]

Only paid 54p in Brighton.

... but that's not the 'proper' roughty-toughty Northern stuff ... just the wimpy Southern Softy stuff!

 

[Lenny HB]

... but that's not the 'proper' roughty-toughty Northern stuff ... just the wimpy Southern Softy stuff!

 

[Minxy]

 

[Bobby22]

It may open a can of worms if we lobby petrol forecourts to charge only 5% vat.....they may take the line that the pumps are to be used only as road fuel.

Could then ban us from using them as others have done.

Then our systems will become virtually useless.

 

[The Wino]

if its cheaper with full vat in some places why worry it just adds cost to the suppliers (and us)