Refillable gas bottle has expired date 2020 ? (1 Viewer)

[bobandjanie]

Can't decide what to do, we had our first refillable gaslow bottles in 2007, and in 2010 decided to change to gas-it aluminium bottles, we let one go with our last van, and kept one and use a Spanish bottle with it, well the date is 2020 so has anyone bothered to take them in for checking / pressure testing or part exchange for a new one, and what allowances do they offer, ? or just dumped it and purchased another from elsewhere, because I don't think gas-it do aluminium these days. ? Bob.

 

[jockaneezer]

Haven't checked the dates on mine and probably won't. There's not a lot to go wrong with them if they're used properly and mine get a visual and nasal inspection every time I get the ehu cable out.
Does anyone know the lifetime of an outside bulk lpg tank that you might have installed if you're off mains gas ?
Those things are exposed to the weather and associated temperature shifts, fair enough they don't suffer vibrations like ours do but are subject to a harsher environment.

 

[irnbru]

We won't be getting ours checked. Unless something goes wrong IMO its just scaremongering to get more money out of us. Know I could of course be wrong and the righteous will be along shortly but this is just my opinion.

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[Stroppy Bird]

A couple of articles here from GASIT

GAS IT Technical Support Portal - 10 Year Service upgrade Option, Re-certification, Recycling and End of life disposal.

 

[Phill D]

this is from the gasit web site;
not suggesting anyone should not get bottles checked but this is the legal position:-

Quote!!
there are 2 official and legal answers :

1) Under current UK & EU law, privately owned end-user owned refillable gas bottles or gas tanks do not need to be legally tested every 10 years as normal gas bottles issued by the big commercial companies do but to be safer than sorry we would always recommend that they are checked and inspected, even if that is just by a GAS IT trained engineer who can check the physical look and condition of the tank/bottle and its valves functionality.

2) If the GAS IT bottle or GAS IT tank is being used in a commercial application by say a motorhome rental company, catering vehicle ( anywhere you need legally a Gas safe certificate ) then there is a 10 years life span on the bottles and tanks, but private motorhomes there isn't.

 

[Phill D]

beat me too it Stroppy Bird

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[Stroppy Bird]

beat me too it Stroppy Bird

I cheated - faster copying a link than a passage of text

 

[PeteH]

I posted this Some time back on another post:- (in reply to a question about Fixed Tanks)

The position used to be, (Pre 1998, when I "retired" from my second profession!!, as a vessel examiner), that smaller LPG vessels used for Domestic purposes, where not required to be examined once they had left the factory, certified as to construction and duly stamped up. Large Bulk vessels in comercial use, should be inspected internally and externally every 10 years, we paid most attention to the welding with emphasis on the heat affected area`s. Attachments, nozzles etc;

Suppliers of portable cylinders (Calor etc), Do test often, mostly by using air pressure in a tank of water. (or did).

I have internally examined a vessel on my R-V. But that was only because the opportunity was presented when the filling valve jambed and had to be replaced, using a borrowed endoscope. The internal surface, 12 years old was virtually pristine!. I would suggest that a good look at the vessels welded joints externally, and the Brackets which serve as attachments to the vehicle would likely suffice.

 

[bobandjanie]

Thanks for that, I have a feeling that you have to have a gas check in Spain, ? might have to file the date off. ?
I'm sure my adviser Richard gus-lopez will know the answer. ? Bob.

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[Phill D]

Thanks for that, I have a feeling that you have to have a gas check in Spain, ? might have to file the date off. ?
I'm sure my adviser Richard gus-lopez will know the answer. ? Bob.

it does say EU law..............

 

[PeteH]

The only thing I discovered Back in the 90`s, was that before you could get a "repsol" bottle (legally) your "rig" gas system had to have an examination certificate. So most changed hands via the "Flea Markets". I think I still have one, somewhere!.

 

[Mike800966]

Dont forget that the gas hoses also have date stamps. I had a pair of refillables which were at the end of their dated life, the supplier of which had gone out of business. After a lot of problems with them and i could not find an independent test centre for them especially bearing in mind that it is very difficult to get them transported once they have had gas in them, I am afraid that I took off the brass valves and left the cylinders at my local recycling centre for disposal.
I just had to bear in mind how much I had saved on the price of the gas and the ease of refilling whilst abroad
Mike

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[TUCANO]

When I had the bottles transferred from my old to newer van in July I asked Autogas at Thirsk to check them over as they are due an inspection this year.
Nothing really to check the guy said but he gave them an external once over and told me not to worry.

 

[bobandjanie]

The only thing I discovered Back in the 90`s, was that before you could get a "repsol" bottle (legally) your "rig" gas system had to have an examination certificate. So most changed hands via the "Flea Markets". I think I still have one, somewhere!.

I think it's still the same, although we did get one of our 3 bottles with a contract. ?
Just after buying our apartment, we had two officials turn up with a clip board saying they needed to do an inspection, ? I was thinking along the lines of you have under paid and they was doing their valuation and wanted more money. ?
No they was looking for gas appliances and bottles, as soon as they realised we are all electric they were off ................. no problem. ? Bob.

 

[Just smiffy]

How lucky do you feel punk.....

I’m always eating out of date food....?

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[EX51SSS]

When I had the bottles transferred from my old to newer van in July I asked Autogas at Thirsk to check them over as they are due an inspection this year.
Nothing really to check the guy said but he gave them an external once over and told me not to worry.

Actually, the only difference between a 'new' cylinder is the valve. Old industrial cylinders are taken to their depots at their 'expiry' date, purged, repainted, new valves fitted and then appears new and 10 years test life.

 

[bigtree]

When I had the bottles transferred from my old to newer van in July I asked Autogas at Thirsk to check them over as they are due an inspection this year.
Nothing really to check the guy said but he gave them an external once over and told me not to worry.

That’s contrary to what they told me,they said they needed tested and a new valve which was almost the cost of a new bottle. ???

 

[tandc]

Autogas at Thirsk told me this week when they are ten years old it is to expensive to send them away to get checked it is cheaper to buy a new bottle and dispose of your old one. Which is what I am going to do.

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[RubyOptics]

If you are worried, it might be worth popping into a scuba centre and asking if they would be able to test it. My local scuba centre has tested my PCP air rifles filling bottle in this way and were happy to stamp another 5 years into it.

 

[PeteH]

For those who are concerned about this, Consider:- The vessels had been manufactured and certified to a standard and have survived 10 years without issue, the steel (or alloy) from which they are made will be of a quality suitable for the service conditions, without which they would not be certified anyway, they have contained an "inert gas", hence the interior will be almost certainly corrosion free. A catastrophic rupture, is rarer that a lottery win, and has happened usually by being in a severe fire.

I would be FAR MORE concerned about the Air Compressor in your neighbours garage, they contain air and water vapour, which are the best conditions for ferritic corrosion. Tend to be vastly neglected, (unless you are a Paint specialist, are rarely ever drained). I have condemned, and/or reduced the working pressure of many over the years due to corrosion, But never a LPG vessel, Not even the Road Tanker, that did nearly a mile on it`s side down the M5!. In fact, IMV the air Reservoirs on Larger R-V`s and Trucks in general have more risk factors.

 

[Pausim]

Is there an insurance angle here? If we drive around with out of date cylinders, tyres or whatever are we perhaps leaving wriggle room for the insurers? We know Calor had to withdraw and inspect many of their Lite cylinders a few years back so presumably things can go wrong.

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[PeteH]

they have contained an "inert gas",

Actually, an inaccuracy, on my part. LPG is not "inert", as it is extremely volatile given the right conditions. It does however contain no significant Oxidising material, and as such levels of corrosion in service will be minute.

 

[PeteH]

Is there an insurance angle here? If we drive around with out of date cylinders, tyres or whatever are we perhaps leaving wriggle room for the insurers? We know Calor had to withdraw and inspect many of their Lite cylinders a few years back so presumably things can go wrong.

The only way round that one if you feel, it to be a risk. Is to return to using exchange cylinders, in the knowledge that the "risk" is then that of the supplier.

 

[daveinspain]

Thanks for that, I have a feeling that you have to have a gas check in Spain, ? might have to file the date off. ?

Our Spanish reg van is now 9 years old, and never been asked about a gas check at the ITV station. The regulations say the installation should be checked by a qualified technician every four years, but never heard of it happening.

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[Lenny HB]

Interesting to see that for private use an inspection is not required. I suppose that if the cylinders are in good condition and the valves are not leaking there is not much else to go wrong.

In our first van the bottles were in an external locker they were Stako bottles and when I sold the van at 6 years old the powder coating was flaking off the lower part of the cylinders and they were getting rusty, If I'd kept the van I would have cleaned and repainted them.

I have Alugas in the current van transferred from the last van, both these vans have the gas locker inside the garage so apart from the drop vent the cylinders have no exposure to the outside world, they look as new at 6 years old.

My only concern would be the internal coating, when Calor first bought out aluminium bottles they had to withdraw them as the LPG was attacking the aluminium, they were replaced with bottles that have an internal coating. Alugas have always been internally coated.

Quote from World LPG Association:
"if the LPG originates from a refinery process, and aluminium cylinders are being used, it is particularly important to drain tanks regularly. Any sulphur present in the LPG may attack the aluminium."

2010 decided to change to gas-it aluminium

because I don't think gas-it do aluminium these days

Probably Alugas as I think they are the only manufacturer of refillable aluminium bottles. Gas-it steel bottles are re-branded Stako bottles.

 

[tandc]

I can only speak for myself but I am quite happy to pay £200 for something that lasts ten years for me it is worth it for peace of mind but that’s just my opinion

 

[Pausim]

The only way round that one if you feel, it to be a risk. Is to return to using exchange cylinders, in the knowledge that the "risk" is then that of the supplier.

Not a risk at present my refillable has a certificate with several years to run on it.

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[pj650]

We had our 10 year old refillable Alugas bottle replaced last July at Autogas 2000.Like others have said the
cost of testing is roughly the same as a new bottle.The total cost was £284.48.
This included fitting the new bottle,new filler hose,new pigtail and and 22 ltrs of gas (and the dreaded vat).
Yes,I know it’s a lot of money,but I think it is worth it for my own peace of mind and safety.
Like PeteH,we had a loaded gas tanker on its side on the M74 many years ago,and it survived intact.The tanks
are very strong.
If we found any leaks at all they were at the valves.
That said,I was happy to pay to have our bottle replaced after 10 years serviced.
Peter

 

[Basildog]

The cylinder PRV manufacturers say that you should replace that after 10 years but then you should also be changing your regulator at 10 years too .
Anyone who is working professionally on a gas system whether it’s private or for hire / commercial etc is supposed to be competent , they cannot just decide to ignore the manufacturers recommendations ??

 

[PeteH]

Manufacturers recommendations?. Hmm?. They are a guidance, clearly, but you have to be cognisant of the fact that in many cases, the engineering is far in excess of what is recommended. Modern manufacturers are acutely aware that they have a "duty of care", that which leads to many taking the view that underestimating is the safer option, and for which no one can blame them. I would not presume to advise anyone in the slightest doubt not to change the vessel. or have it tested by one regarded as competent, Which BTW because of the time lapse since 1998, I am not longer regarded as being. My personal View is that as long as there are no sign of leakage, and the vessel and fittings, including filling and hose, has been maintained to a satisfactory standard, the risks are very very low.

As a point of interest. When calculating the overall cost of gas over the period. One must then factor the Extra £20pa, into the mix?, to cover the cost of replacement. Very crudely, average for a 6Kg Calor, is circa £24, current, which is an easy £4/kg. @ factor of 1.96 that is (almost) £2/litre. Currently LPG at the pumps is around the 64p/lire mark. Which is still a (very) large saving.

I have recently had to change to "Hobby Gas" for Mig welding. I previously had for many years used my own Bottle, however as the time has expired, it can no longer be refilled. And that was an inert gas mix!. I removed the Valve, and inspected the interior, as I suspected it is absolutely pristine!. I will now cut it into sections and dispose of it as scrap!, as the cost of having it re-certified is more than it is worth!, and none of the weld gas suppliers will exchange it!. One even wanted to charge for disposal!.

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