Re mapping. A personal view .

[sonar]

We had swifty the Moho remapped on the 26th Jan this year.
we were in the middle of refurbishing the Moho.
it was some time later we got to try it and found the engine was pulling a little better,
we have had a few tester week ends away sorting out some stuff. And I have just got it back after lending it out to family.

And I have noticed that there has now been a great change in performance. Engine wise. Pulls hard going up hills the engine now seems to have a new life.

it has just gone in for a new clutch and timing belt as we don’t know how long ago the belt was changed and the clutch was slipping from day one. I say day one that’s from the day I picked it up. Four weeks or more before the remapp.

the garage said it was most likely caused by some previous owner riding the clutch pedal and as others have said it is not adjustable.

I also asked them to check the remapp and they a very well known local respected garage have and the results are .. it is within the tolerances they would have expected . and will Not cause any problems for this engine.

I forgot to ask it the remapp usually gets better after a few weeks as we then got on to antifreeze and some other small items I wanted checked or replaced.

did others whom have had a remapp notice a change right away or after a while.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I had my Nissan Pathfinder fitted with a plug and play remapping chip from Race-Chip and straight away it felt like a kick in the pants, acceleration much better and fuel consumption improved.
I haven’t thought about remapping the van yet as I am very happy with its performance and consumption so far.

 

[Bessy765]

Just be aware of the extra torque effect on the clutch the weakest point in the drive train.

 

[fat haggis]

I had my hymer starline 2.7td remapped last year. It’s now running at 200bhp. And 400 torkies runs like a dream at lower speeds higher gears I tried its speed on d motorway. let’s just say it was a flying brick with a drinking habit. But drive at normal speeds it’s a dream up here in the west highlands. A huge improvement

 

[DuxDeluxe]

a flying brick with a drinking habit.

A bit like an F-4 phantom but not quite as fast….

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[Pjdow]

It is extremely doubtful that a garage has the necessary equipment to "check the remap" as it is a change in parameters within the ECU.

Even a remap company would struggle to "check" someone else's work .

A remap changes the fuelling etc of the ECU, it wouldn't improve over time, unless some other intervention such as the EGR is cleaned increasing breathing for example

 

[sonar]

Just be aware of the extra torque effect on the clutch the weakest point in the drive train.

New clutch going in today so I will keep an open eye on it but the garage said it should not make any difference to me as I am not using it as a racing car.

 

[Guigsy]

ECU remap and chipping aren't the same thing. A remap reprograms the ECU to fuel and ignite with new timings and pressures. A chip sits in the middle of the ECU and the injection system and modifies data and signals to trick the system into providing more fuel. The effect is pretty similar. Chips are cheaper, but remaps are generally considered safer as the ECU actually knows what's going on and isn't being lied to.

Note that chips often look like they are producing fantastic MPGs. But that's because the ECU no longer knows how much fuel is being used. You have to measure at the pump to get a real measure.

 

[dunnah01]

Every remap I've bought has had instant results. Luckily always positive

 

[dunnah01]

The remaps I've had in the last few years have all changed the torque parameters rather than directly messing with timing, fuel pressure etc.. Form what I've seen of the ECU maps the torque limits seem to be set for mechanical sympathy rather than performance so plenty of scope to improve things if done properly. DPFs and MOT smoke levels are usually the limiting factors.

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[sonar]

It is extremely doubtful that a garage has the necessary equipment to "check the remap" as it is a change in parameters within the ECU.

Even a remap company would struggle to "check" someone else's work .

A remap changes the fuelling etc of the ECU, it wouldn't improve over time, unless some other intervention such as the EGR is cleaner increasing breathing for example

The garage I have the Moho in does an awful lot of Mohos. They have been repairing and working on Moho for over 30 years. All repairs and also offer a stage one remapp . Their computers are the same as any other remapp agent.

they can tell it has been remapped and what the hp is now and the torque but there is no information on what whom or when it was done. They can remapp it more but it would then exceed the engines safe operating system.

any remapping service can tell you what the settings are but not what they were .
they can 100% tell you if it has already been remapped.

 

[nicholsong]

I had our 2003 Fiat Jtd engine re-mapped(not a standard chip) several years ago to my specification, which was to be able to achieve better performance on hills in the high-ratio 5th gear which is standard on that engine.

It has done jus that, in that I can cruise up average hills.

I am conscious about not putting too much toque on the drive train, so I keep the revs above 2100 in 5th and it seems to be happy with that, so 65-70mph on the hills, but drop back to 60-65 on the flat where the engine is not working so much.

That way I can stay out of the way of HGVs, whereas in the past labouring in 5th or dropping down to 4th gear on hills I could baulk them.

I am not a mpg freak but I think that being able to stay in 5th has slightly increased it, but as we like mountain areas it is difficult to make comparisons.

 

[Jackd]

they can tell it has been remapped and what the hp is now and the torque but there is no information on what whom or when it was done. They can remapp it more but it would then exceed the engines safe operating system.

So it’s been on a rolling road with a slipping clutch?

Or is there another way you can get hp & torque figures that I don’t know about yet?

 

[82125]

Just be aware of the extra torque effect on the clutch the weakest point in the drive train.

Any clutch still within serviceable tolerance will be able to handle more than any "chip" remap will produce.
a 'decent' remap will just take it closer to what its perfectly capable of, but manufacturers build in additional safety margins to factor for idiot owners who dont look after their vehicles or service them.
On the other hand some remaps just through extra fuel in all over the range which gives more power in places but over fuels in others wasting fuel, because the "tuner" cant be bothered to map it correctly and its easier and safer (to protect from detonation and recourse to them).
I've spent a lot of time and money at tuners, knowing which ones actually know what they are doing is the key.

 

[82125]

It is extremely doubtful that a garage has the necessary equipment to "check the remap" as it is a change in parameters within the ECU.

Even a remap company would struggle to "check" someone else's work .

A remap changes the fuelling etc of the ECU, it wouldn't improve over time, unless some other intervention such as the EGR is cleaned increasing breathing for example

some ECU's are able to "learn" driving habits and adjust accordingly, so its possible to see a delayed effect I would say yes.

Off topic but here's a photo of one of my many remapped cars.. full stand alone programable ECU replacement with permanent laptop install in place of the passenger seat, for adjustment on the fly to everything from AFR, power, launch control and anti-lag e.t.c

My van was also already "chipped" when i bought it and i can tell.

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[Paul.L]

Sounds promising, Robert.

Re the feeling of more power after getting back from loaning it to family - perhaps you'd forgotten how well it performed, and 'just knew it was more driveable?

Out of interest, what engine is it?
I ask because mine is a lowly 2 litre, and it struggles a little on gradients - changing to 4th to keep up momentum.
Perhaps a remap could improve this.

 

[Andacami]

Should be instant, the fixed slipping clutch is likely what you are now noticing.

 

[TheBig1]

The program used to remap the ECU data will give an estimated HP & torque figure based on settings. Most of the people re-mapping motorhomes use a generic rolling road tested map produced in ideal conditions on a standard van. Playing with the fueling and timings without access to the rolling road feedback is dangerous. So the re-mappers pay a licence fee to use the supplied map. The really cheap guys are likely not paying the licence to use the map

Think about it, putting every single model of motorhome on a rolling road will never happen. There are few big enough for a start. The generic map will therefore only every give approximate gains, with the bigger and heavier vans gaining much less

The manufacturer maps are set in the lower power zone for less stress on the mechanicals and best emissions for the mainstream product. The fact they offer a better map with increased turbo size says to me that it is generally safe to re-map within safe limits

 

[TheBig1]

The impression that performance has improved after another person drove it, suggests they drove it like they stole it... aka .... An Italian tuneup

 

[sonar]

So it’s been on a rolling road with a slipping clutch?

Or is there another way you can get hp & torque figures that I don’t know about yet?

No computer it’s a stage one remapp. Needed no alterations to brakes air intake carbs or any other additions.
hence it’s called a stage one.

If you have a remapped van and ask for a remapp from a company that carries out remaps as you did not know it had already been done they will tell you.
you don’t need a rolling road as it’s not a car that has been remapped for speed or high performance.

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[sonar]

Should be instant, the fixed slipping clutch is likely what you are now noticing.

No the clutch was slipping from before we bought it.one Of the reasons we bought it cheaply.

 

[Jackd]

The OP said that his mechanic knew what the HP & Torque fingers were despite not who or what map had been installed.

How so?

 

[sonar]

The program used to remap the ECU data will give an estimated HP & torque figure based on settings. Most of the people re-mapping motorhomes use a generic rolling road tested map produced in ideal conditions on a standard van. Playing with the fueling and timings without access to the rolling road feedback is dangerous. So the re-mappers pay a licence fee to use the supplied map. The really cheap guys are likely not paying the licence to use the map

Think about it, putting every single model of motorhome on a rolling road will never happen. There are few big enough for a start. The generic map will therefore only every give approximate gains, with the bigger and heavier vans gaining much less

The manufacturer maps are set in the lower power zone for less stress on the mechanicals and best emissions for the mainstream product. The fact they offer a better map with increased turbo size says to me that it is generally safe to re-map within safe limits

The mapping settings were as you said approved by fiat and the maps are indeed subject to a licence fee.
fiat are able to supply the same service for a great deal of money more.

 

[sonar]

The OP said that his mechanic knew what the HP & Torque fingers were despite not who or what map had been installed.

How so?

If you have a van that you think needs a remapp your call in a company that will do this service.
they connect a computer and start the engine. They can tell what the hp and torque settings are before they update them.
if the van has all ready been remapped the settings will be shown.
and then will give you a print out of what it was and what it is now.
they also keep a copy of what your settings were before the remapp so as you can reset it if required.

 

[TheBig1]

The OP said that his mechanic knew what the HP & Torque fingers were despite not who or what map had been installed.

How so?

Because we are not talking a high performance car with the option of track use, there really are only a few generic maps about that are loaded at your house with a laptop. The generic maps are well known and the guys uploading them to your ECU know the "given figures". As said proving they are correct for your installation, that is likely heavier, much heavier, then the real life torque at the wheels will be far lower.

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[sonar]

Sounds promising, Robert.

Re the feeling of more power after getting back from loaning it to family - perhaps you'd forgotten how well it performed, and 'just knew it was more driveable?

Out of interest, what engine is it?
I ask because mine is a lowly 2 litre, and it struggles a little on gradients - changing to 4th to keep up momentum.
Perhaps a remap could improve this.

It’s a 2.3 diesal Fiat Ducato swift Sundance 2003 600 B
remapped from.
110 hp to 144 hp
torque from 300 to 390

the family member that borrowed it was more likely to have been stopped by the law for going too slow
i doubt they have ever been to 70 mph in their own car.

as suggested maybe I never noticed before.

 

[Jackd]

some ECU's are able to "learn" driving habits and adjust accordingly, so its possible to see a delayed effect I would say yes.

Off topic but here's a photo of one of my many remapped cars.. full stand alone programable ECU replacement with permanent laptop install in place of the passenger seat, for adjustment on the fly to everything from AFR, power, launch control and anti-lag e.t.c

My van was also already "chipped" when i bought it and i can tell.
View attachment 603380

R33? Calm Seas

 

[599]

We had swifty the Moho remapped on the 26th Jan this year.
we were in the middle of refurbishing the Moho.
it was some time later we got to try it and found the engine was pulling a little better,
we have had a few tester week ends away sorting out some stuff. And I have just got it back after lending it out to family.

And I have noticed that there has now been a great change in performance. Engine wise. Pulls hard going up hills the engine now seems to have a new life.

it has just gone in for a new clutch and timing belt as we don’t know how long ago the belt was changed and the clutch was slipping from day one. I say day one that’s from the day I picked it up. Four weeks or more before the remapp.

the garage said it was most likely caused by some previous owner riding the clutch pedal and as others have said it is not adjustable.

I also asked them to check the remapp and they a very well known local respected garage have and the results are .. it is within the tolerances they would have expected . and will Not cause any problems for this engine.

I forgot to ask it the remapp usually gets better after a few weeks as we then got on to antifreeze and some other small items I wanted checked or replaced.

did others whom have had a remapp notice a change right away or after a while.

when we bought our tag brand new in 2008 5000kg / 3000cc it was doing 19mpg we had it remapped at 3000miles it went from 160bhp to 190bhp straight away BUT no increase in mpg until 12000 miles ended doing 28mpg when we sold her 11 years later
BUT a word of warning when the turbo cut in over the years it burnt the clutch out so a few bob up your shirt buy BOY did she fly faster than our 2019 150bhp euro 6 engine

 

[Bubba]

Who did the remapping Sonar.

 

[82125]

If you have a van that you think needs a remapp your call in a company that will do this service.
they connect a computer and start the engine. They can tell what the hp and torque settings are before they update them.
if the van has all ready been remapped the settings will be shown.
and then will give you a print out of what it was and what it is now.
they also keep a copy of what your settings were before the remapp so as you can reset it if required.

sorry, but impossible.
Plugging in to the ODB port may tell them its been remapped (chipped) and possibly which parameters were altered, but impossible to determine engine power outputs let alone at the wheel outputs. Every vehicle, every transmission is different and has different outputs and losses.
The only way to determine these overall is on a rolling road measured at the wheels, or take the engine out completely to dyno it.

THIS is the only way to determine an engines true power output.. anything else is a guestimate.

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