RE-FILLABLE GAS BOTTLE "UPDATE". (1 Viewer)

[Judge Mental]

you pays your money and makes your choice. Gasit/Gaslow more then capable for the job in hand if installed properly, its just that I have never been convinced as to the need for stainless steel hose....agree with @bigtree as to it being a marketing gimmick

I only posted to clarify the difference in HP and LP and there use, as in wordy posts the simple gets lost.

if you follow the instructions and use a complete kit most capable of a DIY install..the chap that caused the explosion probably not! that's if it was his fault...

 

[barsteward]

I don't think it matters if they are Steel or Rubber, Gas-sit or Gaslow as long as what we have is safe.

 

[bigtree]

Do you have evidence of this please.

Yes I have, I had oil residue at the regulator end of a gaslow steel pipe last year.Gas is an petroleum product and as such you WILL get a degree of oil through use.

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[bartiny]

Yes I have, I had oil residue at the regulator end of a gaslow steel pipe last year.Gas is an petroleum product and as such you WILL get a degree of oil through use.

So you are saying that we Gaslow users are being misled/conned into buying their more expensive stainless steel hoses?

I have had my Gaslow system for 6 years, never had a problem.

 

[Munchie]

Had my Gaslow 8 years, only problem Truma regulator, now fitted a Gaslow one, brilliant!

 

[MitchandJenny]

STOP PRESS !!
I have made several Cock-ups !!
My well intentioned article was incorrect in several ways and I WILL be getting the FACTs
ASAP !!
PLEASE WAIT OUT.
Thank you.

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[dave newell]

The stainless steel or rubber are low pressure! Only to be used between the regulator and bottle.

The exterior feed is a high pressure rubber pipe (or should be) similar to those used in hydrolic oil filled systems on heavy machinery and the like....


The only hose approved for in motion gas use are particular rubber ones with the right valve... Think about it.

Have never seen a stainless steel high pressure hose...maybe there are..

Sorry Judge but you are misinformed. The hose between cylinder and reg is high pressure just the same as the filler hose is. Gaslow stainless steel hoses are certified for high pressure use.

D.

 

[Geo]

What is not up for debate is what Gasit say about Stainless filler hose's on their Web site and that is copied and pasted here

We do not sell Stainless Steel Fill hoses because there are none approved to the required UK or Europe E67.01 Regulations. ( Even the ones currently sold by well known companies are not approved to the required E67.01 Regs)
Now I dont know why they say that or if indeed E67.01 is the overiding regulation reqd at LPG installation

The debate as to suitability of stainless is mute is it not, if the said stainless high pressure or otherwise is not approved

Could it be a safety factor that the (Rubber Only) construction acts as an electrical isolator for the fill nozzle?
A static spark at this point could be explosive.
I would surmise that a steel braided hose would/could facilitate such an explosion
G

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Yes I have, I had oil residue at the regulator end of a gaslow steel pipe last year.Gas is an petroleum product and as such you WILL get a degree of oil through use.

I would question that as LPG is a mix of propane and Butane and is taken either off a distillation column during refining, or a gas separator unit. It is then stored several times and transhipped as well. After 40 odd years in the shipping and oil industry, dealing extensively with LPG and chemical gases when at sea, I've never seen any trace of residue in the bottom of an LPG tank after degassing and these tanks contain about 5000 tonnes each.

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[Minxy]

What is not up for debate is what Gasit say about Stainless filler hose's on their Web site and that is copied and pasted here

We do not sell Stainless Steel Fill hoses because there are none approved to the required UK or Europe E67.01 Regulations. ( Even the ones currently sold by well known companies are not approved to the required E67.01 Regs)
Now I dont know why they say that or if indeed E67.01 is the overiding regulation reqd at LPG installation

The debate as to suitability of stainless is mute is it not, if the said stainless high pressure or otherwise is not approved

Could it be a safety factor that the (Rubber Only) construction acts as an electrical isolator for the fill nozzle?
A static spark at this point could be explosive.
I would surmise that a steel braided hose would/could facilitate such an explosion
G

I recall looking into this previously and believe that the R67 requirement is for vehicle propulsion systems only which use liquid gas rather than the vapour, and does not apply to, and is not required for, domestic gas installs.

 

[Judge Mental]

neither rubber of stainless steel sutiaple for in motion use. the only oes tat are

Sorry Judge but you are misinformed. The hose between cylinder and reg is high pressure just the same as the filler hose is. Gaslow stainless steel hoses are certified for high pressure use.

D.

I would question that as LPG is a mix of propane and Butane and is taken either off a distillation column during refining, or a gas separator unit. It is then stored several times and transhipped as well. After 40 odd years in the shipping and oil industry, dealing extensively with LPG and chemical gases when at sea, I've never seen any trace of residue in the bottom of an LPG tank after degassing and these tanks contain about 5000 tonnes each.

In France it is a mix..here in the UK it is not. why moi always try and fill here

 

[DuxDeluxe]

In France it is a mix..here in the UK it is not. why moi always try and fill here

We also used to blend propane and butane on board sometimes, which was interesting...... Whether it is propane or butane doesn't matter. Same reasoning applies. Continental LPG (GPL) has a proportion of butane but it is still majority propane.

My reference to "LPG" was in the context of "liquid petroleum gases" - usually propane and butane, sometimes ethane. Liquid natural gas is methane. Other gases such as ethylene, butadiene, VCM, ammonia are chemical gases

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[scotjimland]

I think this thread should come with a health warning ...

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I think this thread should come with a health warning ...

Yes, it is a "gassing" thread.........

 

[scotjimland]

Yes, it is a "gassing" thread.........

well, that's true enough.. plenty of hot air ..

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[barsteward]

I think this thread should come with a health warning ...

If it needs a health warning it probably needs a Tax as well.

 

[dave newell]

Having "spoken" with Nick from FES Autogas LTD via email today I feel it only fair to correct a point or two I made in error. FES Autogas LTD has been around for several decades (since the 70s in fact), "GasIt" is NOT the company name but the trade name of the refillable systems they sell. The R67 system referred to is a specific type of refillable cylinder/tank which carries its own requirements for installation in a motor vehicle.

Judgemental, the hoses between fill point and cylinder/tank and the hoses between cylinder/tank and regulator are carrying the same pressures, around 100psi on average (will vary with temperature). Rubber hoses are fine for use in motion as long as rupture protection valves are fitted at the cylinder.

To everyone, LPG stands for Liquified Petroleum Gas, this is a by product of the petrochemical industry and as such it is perfectly normal for it to contain some traces of oily substances, even Calor cylinders contain a certain amount of it ( I have personally replaced failed regulators that have never been used on anything but Calor) so it is not anything particular to Autogas ( a simple trade name for LPG (propane in the UK, propane/butane mix in other parts of Europe). LPG as a name covers a variety of gases including propane and butane, both are LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gases).

Hopefully this helps to clear up a few misconceptions but I fear the opposite may be the case, D.

 

[MitchandJenny]

Sorry folks, I WILL be back with some corrections later...
When I had the original conversation, I was halfway up our back garden, in the wind, on my mobile, ( because we live in a mobile signal "blackspot"), and my provider informed me I had only £1.12p left on my phone.
Lame excuses I know, but since a followup call from Nick at Gasit "putting me straight", I can assure you, NO-one can make me feel more remorse at the repercussions I have caused, both to his company and others within our community..
One point I must make, is that Nick did NOT mention steel flexi pipes.. He said stainless steel...
Another point I must correct, is that it is NOT AutoCRUISE that he supplies to, it's
AutoSLEEPER and AutoTRAIL among others..
I feel a real pillock at getting things so wrong and I apologise to all who have been caused
worry by my well intentioned, but incorrect post..
I WILL be adding to this "grovel" as soon as I have more FACTS..
Meanwhile, keep fitting these systems, as they are a massive aid in our search for independence and freedom to roam..

Mitch..

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[MitchandJenny]

PS.. Note to self :- Don't open your mouth until you are sure what you are saying is correct !!!
I think I will keep my own council in future.
Sorry all.
Mitch.

 

[Munchie]

Takes a man to admit his mistakes!

 

[GJH]

PS.. Note to self :- Don't open your mouth until you are sure what you are saying is correct !!!
I think I will keep my own council in future.
Sorry all.
Mitch.

Don't worry about it. Even I thought I was wrong once. Turned out I was mistaken though

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[dave newell]

As Minxy said earlier the R67 "regs" would appear to only apply to systems used for vehicle propulsion, this is from the latest version of the regs I could find online:

1. Scope This Regulation applies to: 1.1. Part I Approval of specific equipment of vehicles of category M and N1 using liquefied petroleum gases in their propulsion system; 1.2. Part II Approval of vehicles of category M and N1 fitted with specific equipment for the use of liquefied petroleum gases in their propulsion system with regard to the installation of such equipment.

I have highlighted the relevan bit in bold

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Don't worry about it. Even I thought I was wrong once. Turned out I was mistaken though

What, when you admitted that proper pasties did not contain carrots after all??

 

[bigtree]

Having "spoken" with Nick from FES Autogas LTD via email today I feel it only fair to correct a point or two I made in error. FES Autogas LTD has been around for several decades (since the 70s in fact), "GasIt" is NOT the company name but the trade name of the refillable systems they sell. The R67 system referred to is a specific type of refillable cylinder/tank which carries its own requirements for installation in a motor vehicle.

Judgemental, the hoses between fill point and cylinder/tank and the hoses between cylinder/tank and regulator are carrying the same pressures, around 100psi on average (will vary with temperature). Rubber hoses are fine for use in motion as long as rupture protection valves are fitted at the cylinder.

To everyone, LPG stands for Liquified Petroleum Gas, this is a by product of the petrochemical industry and as such it is perfectly normal for it to contain some traces of oily substances, even Calor cylinders contain a certain amount of it ( I have personally replaced failed regulators that have never been used on anything but Calor) so it is not anything particular to Autogas ( a simple trade name for LPG (propane in the UK, propane/butane mix in other parts of Europe). LPG as a name covers a variety of gases including propane and butane, both are LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gases).

Hopefully this helps to clear up a few misconceptions but I fear the opposite may be the case, D.

And thank you for confirmation of what I said earlier ,I was a maintenance engineer for some 30 odd years and know what comes through gas pipes. As I said I have had clear oily residue out of my cylinders and that is with a gas low stainless hose. Next time I find it I will take pictures to confirm.

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[Techno]

PS.. Note to self :- Don't open your mouth until you are sure what you are saying is correct !!!
I think I will keep my own council in future.
Sorry all.
Mitch.

It's cool you are among friends

 

[DuxDeluxe]

And thank you for confirmation of what I said earlier ,I was a maintenance engineer for some 30 odd years and know what comes through gas pipes. As I said I have had clear oily residue out of my cylinders and that is with a gas low stainless hose. Next time I find it I will take pictures to confirm.

Thinking about this a bit further, I think that it must come from the storage and transportation process as the way that the gas is produced certainly doesn't give residue - as per previous, a 5000 tonne tank leaves nothing. It must be residues of valve lubricant, carried over compressor oil etc etc that gives this residue in the S/S hoses. Something like that, anyway. Cheers

 

[Techno]

When I had a Gasit inline filter and removed it after prolonged use it was absolutely spotless Dave

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[dave newell]

Strangely the oily residue doesn't appear in all cylinders, it seems to occur completely at random but I have seen it from Calor, Flogas and refillable systems so it is nothing to do with Autogas per se but is endemic to LPG. I don't know what causes it but as the gas is derived from the petrochemical industry it makes some sense to me that it is a natural occurrence.

D.

 

[GJH]

What, when you admitted that proper pasties did not contain carrots after all??

Come on, I'd never get things that wrong

 

[Munchie]

Graham get something wrong??? Next you will be saying faries don't exist and there is no Santa Claus!!!

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