PVC on a ski trip advice please (1 Viewer)

ludo

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Our Chausson shrugs off -24 without any problems. We have spent 2 weeks when it never got warmer than -5 even during the day. In those conditions, even some double floored vans develop cold spots within, leading to frozen pipes.
Maybe I am too harsh in my opinion of what winterised means. When we are in the Alps, we expect to wear t shirts inside and relax, not huddle round in winter woollies shivering.!
It might explain my dismissive attitude to manufacturers claims.

I would not doubt your knowledge/experience of your Chausson Jon, as you seem to doubt others in respect of theirs. I have little knowledge of Chausson and would, therefore, make no attempt to knock it. This post is, in fact, about PVC's

The OP specifically requested information in respect of PVC's. Moreover, immediately after your first post on the subject, suggesting he should consider a 'C' class van, he responded and reaffirmed his wish for a PVC.

My posts were intended to be helpful to the OP by giving him some of my knowledge/experience of a PVC, which is what he asked for. We have owned 9 vans now, including 2 coachbuilds, (1 UK built and 1 German built.), and I would not swap our Globecar for anything. I would not hesitate to take our van into the Alps and I am absolutely confident that the van would cope admirably with the conditions. In sub zero temperatures here in the UK we have never shivered nor have had to sit bound up in winter woolies.
 
Oct 29, 2008
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Our Chausson shrugs off -24 without any problems. We have spent 2 weeks when it never got warmer than -5 even during the day. In those conditions, even some double floored vans develop cold spots within, leading to frozen pipes.
Maybe I am too harsh in my opinion of what winterised means. When we are in the Alps, we expect to wear t shirts inside and relax, not huddle round in winter woollies shivering.!
It might explain my dismissive attitude to manufacturers claims.

They must have improved drastically in thelast 7 years as our Chausson had thin walls an external waste tank that froze and external waste pipes that froze. But as Ludo mentioned this thread is about PVCs.
 

jonandshell

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It is so often the case with Internet forums that advice can be given on the basis of limited experiences and hearsay.
There are certain facts that need to be communicated. Water pipes within even the best insulated van will freeze in persistent sub zero conditions if there is no adjacent heat source in the void in which the pipe is located. Given the compact nature of PVC and the amount of thermal bridges that exist, this is far more likely than with a coachbuit body.
A MH's low temperature performance can only be judged on a case by case basis. Different models from the same manufacturer can have different performance in this respect.
Unless the owner of a van has truly experienced proper Alpine Winter conditions in their van, they are not qualified to pass judgement on that vans performance in those conditions.
Just because it worked on a cold winters night in the UK does not translate to mean it will work in the Alps in winter.
Neither does feeling warm in the van mean your pipes won't freeze if they aren't in a heated void.

I will bow out now. If the consensus of opinion is that a PVC is suitable for persistent Alpine conditions based on the fact it felt warm, then feel free to ignore my experience and buy one.
I personally would wait for someone to come along who HAS used one in the Alps and listen to their findings.

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Oct 29, 2008
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It is so often the case with Internet forums that advice can be given on the basis of limited experiences and hearsay.
There are certain facts that need to be communicated. Water pipes within even the best insulated van will freeze in persistent sub zero conditions if there is no adjacent heat source in the void in which the pipe is located.

Good fully winterized vans like my old frankia had all the water pipes running next to the heating ducts. All the wastes were also near heat. They cannot freeze as long as the heat is on. Yes a PVC may not be to this spec but I can tell you that due to the smaller space and new heating systems my new PVC can be heated many times faster than my old Frankia.
 

lorger

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Good fully winterized vans like my old frankia had all the water pipes running next to the heating ducts. All the wastes were also near heat. They cannot freeze as long as the heat is on. Yes a PVC may not be to this spec but I can tell you that due to the smaller space and new heating systems my new PVC can be heated many times faster than my old Frankia.
My new Possl has heat source next to every water and waste pipe and round the fresh water tank with the waste insulated at the factory. We used the van for 3 nights in Glebshee at temps ranging from -9 to -14 at night, we didn't have hook up just gas and solar and had no issues.
If I'm honest it would be a bit harder for a week or two in these temps but so far I'm more than happy.
 

Minxy

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@jonandshell I assume you didn't mean you post to come across as condescending as it does IMV.

Those of us who have used our PVCs in very cold temperatures can only speak of what we have found, we had NO problem whatsoever and had camped in sub-zero temperatures on several occasions, usually several nights in a row (not in the same location though) and never had any problem whatsoever - this included high up in the mountains in the snow and ice and we didn't have the heating on overnight either.

I do not subscribe to your view that a smaller van is more susceptible to freezing for one minute, it is down to how well it is insulated and how often/high the heating is kept on! All our plumbing except the waste tank (insulated) is internal and the heating inside the van will keep it all from freezing, that IS a fact - they may not be in a 'heated' void, such as a double floor, but instead are part of the main habitation area which is often heated.

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ludo

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Unless the owner of a van has truly experienced proper Alpine Winter conditions in their van, they are not qualified to pass judgement on that vans performance in those conditions.

I am equally frustrated by your suggestion that, presumably, I am not qualified to pass judgement on my own vans performance and that of others, I know personally, who own similar vans.

Frankly, you yourself appear to be offering your own "judgement" on Globecar vans with, perhaps, little or no personal experience of them whatsoever. Since you seem to suggest that I am not "qualified" to pass "judgment" on my own experience, may I ask what qualifications you have to pass such judgement yourself on Globecar vans?

Whilst I can understand your general views of PVC's, having also owned 4 UK built PVC's, with external fresh water tanks strapped underneath, I have to say that they were a completely different kettle of fish to the Globecar.
 
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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Thank you for ALL the comments so far. What I can say is I have considerable experience of ski camping, and my expensive double floor van is not immune to the odd pipe having restricted flow in the morning.

To clarify I am seeking advice only on PVCs with respect to skiing. I am considering only two German vans Carthago Malibu and Globecar Campscout Revolution.

I understand all the comments have been made to try and help me thank you, however as said by some sub zero temperatures at low level is nothing like constant sub zero temps in a ski resort at 1800m.

In the perfect world I would have an A Class for skiing and a PVC for other use, pity is no sells one of these. So I have to choose one that is a major compromise in the other area.

I would really like a PVC but if I don't I will keep what I have.
 

ludo

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Our Globecar, like Minxygirls, has a heavy duty chassis.

Although ours is plated at 3,500 kg, the rear axle is rated at 2,400 kg and the front 2,100 kg. This means that, if required, the van can be up plated to 4,250 kg without any alterations whatsoever. Minxygirl has already done this. In our case, although we have no wish to increase the plated limit to 4,250 kg, it is nice to know that the van is not being subjected to being constantly stressed at its designed weight limit, like many vans, because it has 1.000 kg to spare.


Loading isn't so critical either because it would be very difficult for us to overload either axle at the plated weight of 3,500 kg. Being over weight is one thing but overloading an axle is quite another and could be dangerous.

Just another thought to be considered, perhaps!

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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Our Globecar, like Minxygirls, has a heavy duty chassis.

Although ours is plated at 3,500 kg, the rear axle is rated at 2,400 kg and the front 2,100 kg. This means that, if required, the van can be up plated to 4,250 kg without any alterations whatsoever. Minxygirl has already done this. In our case, although we have no wish to increase the plated limit to 4,250 kg, it is nice to know that the van is not being subjected to being constantly stressed at its designed weight limit, like many vans, because it has 1.000 kg to spare.


Loading isn't so critical either because it would be very difficult for us to overload either axle at the plated weight of 3,500 kg. Being over weight is one thing but overloading an axle is quite another and could be dangerous.

Just another thought to be considered, perhaps!


Which ever van I go for I will be ordering it with the Maxi Chassis as you state, main reason is I carry a scooter on a rear rack which would go over the std rear axle weight. The other big item I want is diesel heating but both vans I'm considering offer this as an option. I can empty 2 11kg gas bottles in 5/6 days easy when skiing. Does your Globecar come with a spare wheel as std? That's not a big issue as I can fit later myself though.
 

ludo

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Which ever van I go for I will be ordering it with the Maxi Chassis as you state, main reason is I carry a scooter on a rear rack which would go over the std rear axle weight. The other big item I want is diesel heating but both vans I'm considering offer this as an option. I can empty 2 11kg gas bottles in 5/6 days easy when skiing. Does your Globecar come with a spare wheel as std? That's not a big issue as I can fit later myself though.

Yes, our Globecars, both of them, came with a spare wheel and under slung carrier. I would check though when you order. I have sent you a PM, (conversation), re your other question! I would also look at SMC Newark for your van.
 

Minxy

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Just to be aware that there are 2 versions of the Maxi chassis, the light/standard one at 3500kg and the heavy at 4250kg so make sure you get the right one although I believe that those built on the 6.3 length ones should be on the heavy anyway.

Jez has just bought a Revolution from down south, rather than SMC, as he got a better deal I believe.

I've just had a look at the Malibu and it's only 6m and can only accommodate 2 x 5kg gas bottles so that's a bit limiting, even if you get diesel heating.

One advantage with the Globecar revolution with the 2 rear bed areas is that you could sleep in the upper bed and then use the lower area to hang your skiing gear to dry out.

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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Just to be aware that there are 2 versions of the Maxi chassis, the light/standard one at 3500kg and the heavy at 4250kg so make sure you get the right one although I believe that those built on the 6.3 length ones should be on the heavy anyway.

Jez has just bought a Revolution from down south, rather than SMC, as he got a better deal I believe.

I've just had a look at the Malibu and it's only 6m and can only accommodate 2 x 5kg gas bottles so that's a bit limiting, even if you get diesel heating.

One advantage with the Globecar revolution with the 2 rear bed areas is that you could sleep in the upper bed and then use the lower area to hang your skiing gear to dry out.

Minxy Girl,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the options using the higher bed could offer, good point.

I'm considering the Malibu 640 which 6.36m and does take 2 X 11kg bottles but it's nice your trying to help out and stop me making a mistake.
 

DBK

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Which ever van I go for I will be ordering it with the Maxi Chassis as you state, main reason is I carry a scooter on a rear rack which would go over the std rear axle weight. The other big item I want is diesel heating but both vans I'm considering offer this as an option. I can empty 2 11kg gas bottles in 5/6 days easy when skiing. Does your Globecar come with a spare wheel as std? That's not a big issue as I can fit later myself though.
Our van has diesel heating (Webasto dualtop) which is very powerful but it has one drawback (apart from being very expensive to fix if it fails :)) and that is it needs quite a lot power. It isn't the fan to move the air around, it is the diesel pump and heater to vaporizer the fuel. I can typically see 8 amps or more for several minutes when it is firing up.

Not a problem if you are on EHU but solar in winter isn't going to be much use to replace that amount of power.

It isn't a game changer but a factor to consider - as is the actual fuel consumption - it isn't insignificant and you could empty your tank in a few weeks I think in very low temperatures.
 
Jun 12, 2016
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We have a Campscout Revolution and are very pleased with it
I'm 6ft4in the extra head room makes a big difference.
Being able to carry bikes inside and still use the bed was the other clincher for us
As said in previous post we have not been out in really cold weather yet

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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Our van has diesel heating (Webasto dualtop) which is very powerful but it has one drawback (apart from being very expensive to fix if it fails :)) and that is it needs quite a lot power. It isn't the fan to move the air around, it is the diesel pump and heater to vaporizer the fuel. I can typically see 8 amps or more for several minutes when it is firing up.

Not a problem if you are on EHU but solar in winter isn't going to be much use to replace that amount of power.

It isn't a game changer but a factor to consider - as is the actual fuel consumption - it isn't insignificant and you could empty your tank in a few weeks I think in very low temperatures.
Thanks for your advice, it all helps. When skiing I am either on EHU or I run the gennie every day when we get back from skiing till around 9pm, so does everyone else you have no option in those conditions. I am not to concerned on consumption, it's more about availability of the heating fuel source.
 

Minxy

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Minxy Girl,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the options using the higher bed could offer, good point.

I'm considering the Malibu 640 which 6.36m and does take 2 X 11kg bottles but it's nice your trying to help out and stop me making a mistake.
Ah, I see, I've just had a shuftie at the 640 and it looks nice but two things struck me immediately ... the toilet swivels under the end of the bed for when you want to shower which is good for creating a larger showering area however if you look at the photo of it through the external access door there is nothing supporting the surround or sealing it off from the interior so any smells etc coming from the cassette/compartment will permeate into the interior - from experience it is very difficult to prevent smells in the cassette locker itself no matter how well you keep it clean. I also noticed that there doesn't appear to be much, if any, access to the under bed area from the interior so you'd need to go round to the outside everything you wanted something from under there or have limited access via the bed base.
 
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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Ah, I see, I've just had a shuftie at the 640 and it looks nice but two things struck me immediately ... the toilet swivels under the end of the bed for when you want to shower which is good for creating a larger showering area however if you look at the photo of it through the external access door there is nothing supporting the surround or sealing it off from the interior so any smells etc coming from the cassette/compartment will permeate into the interior - from experience it is very difficult to prevent smells in the cassette locker itself no matter how well you keep it clean. I also noticed that there doesn't appear to be much, if any, access to the under bed area from the interior so you'd need to go round to the outside everything you wanted something from under there or have limited access via the bed base.

I have not had issues with cassette smells so I hadn't considered that. In the Campscout the switch to raise/lower the bed appears to be at the rear of the bed (on video) so you would need to open the rear door, is that not correct?

I was all set to have a Campscout but the 2017 spec has a shower curtain in the bathroom and I really don't like shower curtains. Which ever way there is always a compromise.

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Minxy

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In the Campscout the switch to raise/lower the bed appears to be at the rear of the bed (on video) so you would need to open the rear door, is that not correct?
Can't answer that but Jez possibly can as he's just bought a 2016 model, however I can't think it would be that difficult to put an 'extension' switch in the foot end instead.

I was all set to have a Campscout but the 2017 spec has a shower curtain in the bathroom and I really don't like shower curtains. Which ever way there is always a compromise.
AFAIK it is the same as our shower (just taller!) where the 2 tambour doors pull out into the corridor to form 85% of the sides of the shower and the only bit of curtain is that which covers the aperture into the toilet/sink area but it is held in place with press-studs so doesn't move at all so no 'getting up close and personal' with you! It's one of the best showers we've ever used!
 
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Re the switch for raising and lowering the bed in the Revolution there is an option to have an extra switch in the front of the van if ordering a new build.
Difficult bit of doing it later would be the usual of feeding the wires to where you want them.
I may have a think about doing it as would be handy if you want something from the garage area when its cold and wet.
 

Minxy

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Re the switch for raising and lowering the bed in the Revolution there is an option to have an extra switch in the front of the van if ordering a new build.
Difficult bit of doing it later would be the usual of feeding the wires to where you want them.
I may have a think about doing it as would be handy if you want something from the garage area when its cold and wet.
I suppose the most obvious thing is to therefore store stuff that you're likely to want to get hold of at the front end so you can grab it without having to mess about raising/lowering the bed. If you did want to subsequently fit an extra switch I can't see it being a problem as the wiring would easily go along inside the surround/housing for the water tank towards the front.

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Oct 29, 2008
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Minxy Girl,

Thanks, I hadn't thought about the options using the higher bed could offer, good point.

I'm considering the Malibu 640 which 6.36m and does take 2 X 11kg bottles but it's nice your trying to help out and stop me making a mistake.

I was looking at the Malibu but went with the Globecar instead. The high top and the rear electric bed swung it for us. Beware that not all manufacturers 6.3m vans are built on the Maxi Chassis.
Im going to have an underslung gas tank fitted which will free up my gas locker for extra storage, there is a lot of storage being the high top and having the over cab cupboard but you can never have too much.
 
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Agree feeding the wires should not be that hard but every time I do a job like that there is something in the way.:mad:
We normally have bike or boat gear stored in the back so dont normally have to rummage in the back at night.
If the bikes are inside the bed is raised a bit anyway
 
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just had a look on the project 2000 electric bed website. They have a remote control unit available. I dont know if it can be used with the Globecar bed though.

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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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Can't answer that but Jez possibly can as he's just bought a 2016 model, however I can't think it would be that difficult to put an 'extension' switch in the foot end instead.


AFAIK it is the same as our shower (just taller!) where the 2 tambour doors pull out into the corridor to form 85% of the sides of the shower and the only bit of curtain is that which covers the aperture into the toilet/sink area but it is held in place with press-studs so doesn't move at all so no 'getting up close and personal' with you! It's one of the best showers we've ever used!

Minxy Girl, I think you miss understood what I was saying about the shower. For 2017 the shower is no longer in the centre isle, the bathroom has been made bigger and the shower moved inside the bathroom but now using a curtain, no tambour doors for shower at all. To quote Globecar 'the centre isle shower is losing favour'. I'm off to Düsseldorf this weekend to see for real.

They have gained the space by making one side of the bed shorter, and slightly reducing the size of the dinette making the bathroom bigger. So when you shower inside the bathroom the isle remains clear.
 

Minxy

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Minxy Girl, I think you miss understood what I was saying about the shower. For 2017 the shower is no longer in the centre isle, the bathroom has been made bigger and the shower moved inside the bathroom but now using a curtain, no tambour doors for shower at all. To quote Globecar 'the centre isle shower is losing favour'. I'm off to Düsseldorf this weekend to see for real.

They have gained the space by making one side of the bed shorter, and slightly reducing the size of the dinette making the bathroom bigger. So when you shower inside the bathroom the isle remains clear.
I see ... do you have a link to the 2017 version as I couldn't find one on the web earlier although there's the current Globescout which has the sort of washroom you're talking about I believe:
 
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Phillybarbour

Phillybarbour

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I see ... do you have a link to the 2017 version as I couldn't find one on the web earlier although there's the current Globescout which has the sort of washroom you're talking about I believe:
Sorry no link, the dealer told me and showed me a few pictures off his phone that he took himself at the dealer launch two weeks ago. They are officially launched this weekend at the Düsseldorf show so I will pick brochures up. I expect the German website will also be updated after this weekend.

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We were in Les Angles in March.. it's a free Aire and right at the bottom of the slope near the ski lifts. There's a few strange vehicles there but it's free and easy to get to.
Crossing was under £100 return .. fuel and tolls cost us .. but ....
We love the van and would always take it as we can take the dogs.
Once we'd finished in the Pyrenees we popped down to the coast for a while.
Much better for us than the grief of a flight dogs in kennels.. no flexibility ..
Van every time for us.
Temp at Les Angles in March was only about -5 in fairness but like @jonandshell we have a Chausson that copes admirably on the cold.
Just the sort of ski trip I would use the van for but arc 2000 or the 3 valleys in January with a party of 10 and back home straight after no thanks!!. Always said when we have time to go somewhere else after of before and later in the season or a smaller resort lower down will try the van. Our holiday was sk-ing and socialising in a big resort ski-ing 7 hours a day so would not want the dog on that trip he goes to stay with friends
 
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I see ... do you have a link to the 2017 version as I couldn't find one on the web earlier although there's the current Globescout which has the sort of washroom you're talking about I believe:

A member on the globecar forum has uploaded a 2017 catalogue.

It shows a campscout (the traditional one with centre shower) a campscout revolution (the high bed one with centre shower) and a campscout B (normal lower bed, smaller dinette and shower in toilet area).
 

Minxy

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A member on the globecar forum has uploaded a 2017 catalogue.

It shows a campscout (the traditional one with centre shower) a campscout revolution (the high bed one with centre shower) and a campscout B (normal lower bed, smaller dinette and shower in toilet area).
I did wonder as some current models have different bathroom layouts depending on which 'spec level' you go for.
Looks like the new 2017 model might be back on the OPs consideration list!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yanmu8fgtggur6a/1 - Globecar Händlermappe Saison 2017 Deutschland.pdf?dl=0

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