Proof of the 90 day limit ! (1 Viewer)

[Minxy]

Definitely possible to apply for an extended stay visa, I thought we were discussing 90 day visa's and the need or otherwise.

I think you need to re-read some of the posts ... we are talking about using the 90 day visa to ADD another 90 days consecutively onto the 90 days which we are already entitled to without having to get a visa.

 

[Deneb]

For those who say it cannot be done see screenshot below. Visa applied for as a UK citizen, or to be precise it would be applied for if I paid the £90). I cannot do that atm as I am in Spain and am certifying I am in the UK. Note the visa type.

The Blue Box is where I have redacted my personal information.

EDITED TO ADD: And before someone points it out, I am fully aware that applied for is not the same as granted...

You have completed the application form for a French long-stay vias (for a period of between 3 months and a maximum of 1 year).

Points to note from the explanatory documents on the French Visa website:

You have to pay 99 euros when you submit the form. Whether or not your application is subsequently successful, they keep the money.

You may subsequently be required to attend an interview at your local consulate, where you will be required to produce documents supporting your application, which include:

- The rental agreement or a copy of the title for the property in which you intend to reside for the duration of your stay.
- A letter from the owner of the property in which you intend to reside conforming the duration and reason for your stay, and a copy of their passport.
- At least 3 months bank statement or pay slips showing that you have sufficient financial resources to support your proposed stay.
- Proof of acceptable health insurance cover.
- Proof of the date of your booked departure.

You can only apply for the visa within 180 days of the date that you require it to commence. The duration and validity of the visa will be affected by any period of time spent within the Schengen area within 180 days preceding the date of its validity. In other words, if you apply for a 12 month visa, and your application is successful, but you have been in Schengen for a total of 90 days within a 180 day period preceding the commencement of the visa, its validity will be reduced to 9 months. That alone should inform you that a visa cannot be cumulative to any visa free allowance granted to citizens of a country who do not require a short-stay visa to enter Schengen, or to any other visa previously issued.

The visa is a French long-stay visa, allowing you to stay in France for the period of its validity. It also acts as a 90 day short-stay Schengen visa for visits to any other countries within the Schengen area, allowing cumulative visits to those countries for a total of 90 days within any preceding 180 day period. The validity of the short-stay Schengen visa will also be affected by any time spent within the Schengen area within the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa. Again, it cannot be cumulative to any preceding period of stay within the zone in the preceding 180 days, so for a British subject, confers no more rights than you already have.

If you apply for a French short-stay (Schengen 90 day) visa as a British subject, you are informed that you don't need one, because you are already allowed to visit for periods of up to 90 days within any 180 day period. The site does not prevent you from completing the application form. If you do so, I would imagine one of two things is likely to happen; you will be informed that you don't need a visa for a stay of up to 90 days, and they will thank you for your 99 euro donation, or they may issue you a visa which gives you no right to stay longer than you already have, since any period of validity will be affected by time spent within the Schengen area in the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa or its date of validity.

In other words, if you obtain a short-stay visa, and have been in Schengen for a period of 70 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be for up to 20 days. If you have been in the zone for a total of 90 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be 0 days (even if it was granted for 90 days at the time of issue, as the period of validity will be calculated on entry to the zone).

So I see nothing that changes what has already been said. Individual countries within the Schengen area can have their own processes for issuing long stay visas, but the duration of any stay granted applies to the country issuing the visa only, not to the entire Schengen area.

It seems to me that the documentary evidence required to obtain a long-stay visa, such as the rental agreement or title to the property where you will reside for the duration of your stay, letter from the owner of the property and copy of their passport, present more than a few obstacles to obtaining a long-stay visa to tour France in a motorhome.

The only advantage I can see is that, for someone wishing to spend more than 90 days in France as a visitor at a single fixed place of residence, that may be possible, and they will also be able to visit other Schengen countries whilst they are resident in France, but only for a maximum of 90 days outside of France itself, in any rolling 180 day period. Any time within the Schengen zone within 180 days prior to the commencement of the visa will shorten its duration, and the validity of up to 90 days travel within other Schengen countries, accordingly. If you know someone who owns a property in France and is willing to support your application, you may be able to take advantage of that, but residing elsewhere -= such as touring in a motorhome - would not be legal. To what degree there may be a risk of being caught is another matter.

There is however a concession for British subjects who own a property in France, that allows them to obtain a visa to stay in that property for up to 6 months each year without obtaining residency.

 

[spitfire]

You have completed the application form for a French long-stay vias (for a period of between 3 months and a maximum of 1 year).

Points to note from the explanatory documents on the French Visa website:

You have to pay 99 euros when you submit the form. Whether or not your application is subsequently successful, they keep the money.

You may subsequently be required to attend an interview at your local consulate, where you will be required to produce documents supporting your application, which include:

- The rental agreement or a copy of the title for the property in which you intend to reside for the duration of your stay.
- A letter from the owner of the property in which you intend to reside conforming the duration and reason for your stay, and a copy of their passport.
- At least 3 months bank statement or pay slips showing that you have sufficient financial resources to support your proposed stay.
- Proof of acceptable health insurance cover.
- Proof of the date of your booked departure.

You can only apply for the visa within 180 days of the date that you require it to commence. The duration and validity of the visa will be affected by any period of time spent within the Schengen area within 180 days preceding the date of its validity. In other words, if you apply for a 12 month visa, and your application is successful, but you have been in Schengen for a total of 90 days within a 180 day period preceding the commencement of the visa, its validity will be reduced to 9 months. That alone should inform you that a visa cannot be cumulative to any visa free allowance granted to citizens of a country who do not require a short-stay visa to enter Schengen, or to any other visa previously issued.

The visa is a French long-stay visa, allowing you to stay in France for the period of its validity. It also acts as a 90 day short-stay Schengen visa for visits to any other countries within the Schengen area, allowing cumulative visits to those countries for a total of 90 days within any preceding 180 day period. The validity of the short-stay Schengen visa will also be affected by any time spent within the Schengen area within the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa. Again, it cannot be cumulative to any preceding period of stay within the zone in the preceding 180 days, so for a British subject, confers no more rights than you already have.

If you apply for a French short-stay (Schengen 90 day) visa as a British subject, you are informed that you don't need one, because you are already allowed to visit for periods of up to 90 days within any 180 day period. The site does not prevent you from completing the application form. If you do so, I would imagine one of two things is likely to happen; you will be informed that you don't need a visa for a stay of up to 90 days, and they will thank you for your 99 euro donation, or they may issue you a visa which gives you no right to stay longer than you already have, since any period of validity will be affected by time spent within the Schengen area in the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa or its date of validity.

In other words, if you obtain a short-stay visa, and have been in Schengen for a period of 70 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be for up to 20 days. If you have been in the zone for a total of 90 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be 0 days (even if it was granted for 90 days at the time of issue, as the period of validity will be calculated on entry to the zone).

So I see nothing that changes what has already been said. Individual countries within the Schengen area can have their own processes for issuing long stay visas, but the duration of any stay granted applies to the country issuing the visa only, not to the entire Schengen area.

It seems to me that the documentary evidence required to obtain a long-stay visa, such as the rental agreement or title to the property where you will reside for the duration of your stay, letter from the owner of the property and copy of their passport, present more than a few obstacles to obtaining a long-stay visa to tour France in a motorhome.

The only advantage I can see is that, for someone wishing to spend more than 90 days in France as a visitor at a single fixed place of residence, that may be possible, and they will also be able to visit other Schengen countries whilst they are resident in France, but only for a maximum of 90 days outside of France itself, in any rolling 180 day period. Any time within the Schengen zone within 180 days prior to the commencement of the visa will shorten its duration, and the validity of up to 90 days travel within other Schengen countries, accordingly. If you know someone who owns a property in France and is willing to support your application, you may be able to take advantage of that, but residing elsewhere -= such as touring in a motorhome - would not be legal. To what degree there may be a risk of being caught is another matter.

There is however a concession for British subjects who own a property in France, that allows them to obtain a visa to stay in that property for up to 6 months each year without obtaining residency.

Melbourne friends of my daughter came to France for 6 months . No problem for her as she had a British passport but he only had an Australian one .
In order to extend his 90 day visa he had to prove all the above and many visits to the Prefecture . They had a six month rental so a permanent address and their little girl attended the local school . He was near the wire to be allowed to stay on . So not as easy as just filling in a form and paying up the cash .

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[TDub49]

A long, long time ago, in a country far away, it was possible to hop on a ferry and spend carefree months exploring a massive and diverse continent. No paperwork worth mentioning and free transit of ham sandwiches permitted. That freedom has been consigned to history and now we have the new freedom of needing to read through things like this in order to maybe scratch a few extra days out of a freedom we long enjoyed. Wonderful.

Schengen Visa Types & Validity, Duration of Stay & Visa Sticker

Learn more about types of Schengen Visas, the difference between Visa Validity and Duration of Stay, the 90/180 Rule and how to read the Visa Sticker.

www.schengenvisainfo.com

 

[tuscancouple]

A long, long time ago, in a country far away, it was possible to hop on a ferry and spend carefree months exploring a massive and diverse continent. No paperwork worth mentioning and free transit of ham sandwiches permitted. That freedom has been consigned to history and now we have the new freedom of needing to read through things like this in order to maybe scratch a few extra days out of a freedom we long enjoyed. Wonderful.

Ahh, but that's democracy

Mick

 

[Deneb]

Just to add domf that in one of your previous screenshots of the application form, you have selected "Visitor" from the drop-down lists under the type of entry and purpose of stay. Presumably you did so because there is no selection for "Tourist".

Having looked into that further, Visitor apparently means that you are intending to visit (and reside with) family or friends who are currently resident in the Schengen area, hence the confirmatory letter of intent and possibly also a copy of their passport that may be required to be submitted during the application process. There is no option for Tourist, which appears to confirm what has also previously been said, and is supported by the visa information site that TDub49 has linked to, that it is not possible to obtain a long-stay Schengen visa for tourism and that few if any countries offer individual long-stay visas for that purpose.

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[bellabee]

There's a readable guide to the new rules for stays in excess of 90/180 days here

https://www.thelocal.fr/20201218/france-publishes-its-visa-requirements-for-british-people-from-january

It appears that you can start off the process on line, but then have to attend the French Consulate in person, taking professional translations of supporting documentation eg Health Insurance, proof of address where you will be staying, proof of sufficient financial means of supporting yourself.

The process should be started at least 2 months before your intended date of travel.

Not compatible with my idea of the freedom of motorhoming, I'm afraid.

 

[Abgs]

You have completed the application form for a French long-stay vias (for a period of between 3 months and a maximum of 1 year).

Points to note from the explanatory documents on the French Visa website:

You have to pay 99 euros when you submit the form. Whether or not your application is subsequently successful, they keep the money.

You may subsequently be required to attend an interview at your local consulate, where you will be required to produce documents supporting your application, which include:

- The rental agreement or a copy of the title for the property in which you intend to reside for the duration of your stay.
- A letter from the owner of the property in which you intend to reside conforming the duration and reason for your stay, and a copy of their passport.
- At least 3 months bank statement or pay slips showing that you have sufficient financial resources to support your proposed stay.
- Proof of acceptable health insurance cover.
- Proof of the date of your booked departure.

You can only apply for the visa within 180 days of the date that you require it to commence. The duration and validity of the visa will be affected by any period of time spent within the Schengen area within 180 days preceding the date of its validity. In other words, if you apply for a 12 month visa, and your application is successful, but you have been in Schengen for a total of 90 days within a 180 day period preceding the commencement of the visa, its validity will be reduced to 9 months. That alone should inform you that a visa cannot be cumulative to any visa free allowance granted to citizens of a country who do not require a short-stay visa to enter Schengen, or to any other visa previously issued.

The visa is a French long-stay visa, allowing you to stay in France for the period of its validity. It also acts as a 90 day short-stay Schengen visa for visits to any other countries within the Schengen area, allowing cumulative visits to those countries for a total of 90 days within any preceding 180 day period. The validity of the short-stay Schengen visa will also be affected by any time spent within the Schengen area within the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa. Again, it cannot be cumulative to any preceding period of stay within the zone in the preceding 180 days, so for a British subject, confers no more rights than you already have.

If you apply for a French short-stay (Schengen 90 day) visa as a British subject, you are informed that you don't need one, because you are already allowed to visit for periods of up to 90 days within any 180 day period. The site does not prevent you from completing the application form. If you do so, I would imagine one of two things is likely to happen; you will be informed that you don't need a visa for a stay of up to 90 days, and they will thank you for your 99 euro donation, or they may issue you a visa which gives you no right to stay longer than you already have, since any period of validity will be affected by time spent within the Schengen area in the 180 days preceding the issue of the visa or its date of validity.

In other words, if you obtain a short-stay visa, and have been in Schengen for a period of 70 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be for up to 20 days. If you have been in the zone for a total of 90 days within the preceding 180 days, the period of validity of the visa will be 0 days (even if it was granted for 90 days at the time of issue, as the period of validity will be calculated on entry to the zone).

So I see nothing that changes what has already been said. Individual countries within the Schengen area can have their own processes for issuing long stay visas, but the duration of any stay granted applies to the country issuing the visa only, not to the entire Schengen area.

It seems to me that the documentary evidence required to obtain a long-stay visa, such as the rental agreement or title to the property where you will reside for the duration of your stay, letter from the owner of the property and copy of their passport, present more than a few obstacles to obtaining a long-stay visa to tour France in a motorhome.

The only advantage I can see is that, for someone wishing to spend more than 90 days in France as a visitor at a single fixed place of residence, that may be possible, and they will also be able to visit other Schengen countries whilst they are resident in France, but only for a maximum of 90 days outside of France itself, in any rolling 180 day period. Any time within the Schengen zone within 180 days prior to the commencement of the visa will shorten its duration, and the validity of up to 90 days travel within other Schengen countries, accordingly. If you know someone who owns a property in France and is willing to support your application, you may be able to take advantage of that, but residing elsewhere -= such as touring in a motorhome - would not be legal. To what degree there may be a risk of being caught is another matter.

I've also had a look at this process as I have a house in France - Dept 17 which I've owned since 2002.

Over the past 18 years I've only averaged a 8 weeks a year at the house due to having kids at school in the UK. Now they have left school I could go for a longer period at a time but this is being somewhat thwarted by Brexit and Covid.

There is however a concession for British subjects who own a property in France, that allows them to obtain a visa to stay in that property for up to 6 months each year without obtaining residency.

I got quote for basic health insurance for a couple of aged 50 somethings - came in at £3500 per year. So that increases the cost of the Visa somewhat! As the Long Stay Visa is for a 12 month period during that time you can spend 6 months in France - however you need Heath Insurance for the whole period of the Visa i.e 12 Months cover.

You also need to prove "sufficient financial resources to support your proposed stay" I was advised this is about 1200 Euro per month per adult.

Also ... If you reside in France for than 183 days in a tax year you become tax resident in France - for me that would be an extra cost also.

If I moved to France on a Resident's Visa I'd only need three months private health insurance before I could join the state system - you pay for this and the cost is something like 8% of your net income above a €20,000 threshold.

For now I'm just going to have to work with the 90/180. I rent the house out for a few weeks in the summer which covers the costs of running it.

Actually, the above is part of the reason I bought the Hymer - now I have the time to travel its adds more flexibility into the mix. There are still countries outside of Schengen that I want to visit so just means a bit more planning with my dates.

I'm not going to let 90/180 beat me!

 

[Don Quixote]

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[domf]

Just to add domf that in one of your previous screenshots of the application form, you have selected "Visitor" from the drop-down lists under the type of entry and purpose of stay. Presumably you did so because there is no selection for "Tourist".

No - as per one of my (many) posts I will be a tourist. I classify as a visitor as I will be visiting with my wife, an EU citizen (Irish).

 

[spitfire]

Just to add domf that in one of your previous screenshots of the application form, you have selected "Visitor" from the drop-down lists under the type of entry and purpose of stay. Presumably you did so because there is no selection for "Tourist".

Having looked into that further, Visitor apparently means that you are intending to visit (and reside with) family or friends who are currently resident in the Schengen area, hence the confirmatory letter of intent and possibly also a copy of their passport that may be required to be submitted during the application process. There is no option for Tourist, which appears to confirm what has also previously been said, and is supported by the visa information site that TDub49 has linked to, that it is not possible to obtain a long-stay Schengen visa for tourism and that few if any countries offer individual long-stay visas for that purpose.

My daughter if she didn’t work lol could apply for an extended visitor visa from Oz as she is visiting and staying with family . Likewise we could apply to extend the 3 month visa we apply for to visit her but only because we have a close family member in the country

 

[Minxy]

My daughter if she didn’t work lol could apply for an extended visitor visa from Oz as she is visiting and staying with family . Likewise we could apply to extend the 3 month visa we apply for to visit her but only because we have a close family member in the country

Soooooo ... what we need to do is find people in each of the countries and either adopt them or get them to adopt us so we can be part of their 'family'!

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[tuscancouple]

Soooooo ... what we need to do is find people in each of the countries and either adopt them or get them to adopt us so we can be part of their 'family'!

Good plan . I have a son and two granchildren who live in France, so will have my visa application in when it looks like we can all move around again.

Mick

 

[spitfire]

Soooooo ... what we need to do is find people in each of the countries and either adopt them or get them to adopt us so we can be part of their 'family'!

Haha sounds like a plan lol

 

[Abgs]

Soooooo ... what we need to do is find people in each of the countries and either adopt them or get them to adopt us so we can be part of their 'family'!

Would still have to pay for private health insurance for the length of your visa though .... that's the big kicker. Most of the rest of the process can be worked around to a degree.

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[TDub49]

Ahh, but that's democracy

Mick

Yup, one of the finest examples of democracy you can buy.

 

[Molly A]

A long, long time ago, in a country far away, it was possible to hop on a ferry and spend carefree months exploring a massive and diverse continent. No paperwork worth mentioning and free transit of ham sandwiches permitted. That freedom has been consigned to history and now we have the new freedom of needing to read through things like this in order to maybe scratch a few extra days out of a freedom we long enjoyed. Wonderful.

Schengen Visa Types & Validity, Duration of Stay & Visa Sticker

Learn more about types of Schengen Visas, the difference between Visa Validity and Duration of Stay, the 90/180 Rule and how to read the Visa Sticker.

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Watch it, you risk being threatened with being sent to Coventry. I went there once, it wasn't nice, not a patch on Europe.....

 

[TDub49]

Watch it, you risk being threatened with being sent to Coventry. I went there once, it wasn't nice, not a patch on Europe.....

Thanks and I may already be quite high on some people's ignore lists but this post has had more likes than anything else I have put up so it's encouraging to think that there is still freedom of expression under this new version of democracy that we live in and a healthy mixture of opinions out there.

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[EdwardFT]

Thanks and I may already be quite high on some people's ignore lists but this post has had more likes than anything else I have put up so it's encouraging to think that there is still freedom of expression under this new version of democracy that we live in and a healthy mixture of opinions out there.

In a thread about trying to overcome problems caused by the changing rules as a direct consequence of leaving the EU, I hardly think that saying gently and humourously that you don't like it, would qualify as "making politics".

 

[MisterB]

There is however a concession for British subjects who own a property in France, that allows them to obtain a visa to stay in that property for up to 6 months each year without obtaining residency.

would that also apply to a mobile home? or would that fall into the 'rental' process ? i suppose a contract with the campsite might suffice of proof of residence within the visa period?

I am sure it will all become clearer over the next few months, even if it takes a couple of years to sort out (or never !) i will work within the rules and try work out how best to gain maximum time in the EU that works for us

 

[Deneb]

would that also apply to a mobile home? or would that fall into the 'rental' process ? i suppose a contract with the campsite might suffice of proof of residence within the visa period?

I am sure it will all become clearer over the next few months, even if it takes a couple of years to sort out (or never !) i will work within the rules and try work out how best to gain maximum time in the EU that works for us

My gut feeling is not a chance, but I don't know. I would assume a property relates to bricks and mortar with a title of some sort. Someone else may know better.

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[2657]

My gut feeling is not a chance, but I don't know. I would assume a property relates to bricks and mortar with a title of some sort. Someone else may know better.

Mobile homes are accepted for residency purposes so I can't see why they shouldn't for other purposes.
Our 5'er is accepted as a residence in Portugal.

 

[gus-lopez]

Mobile homes are accepted for residency purposes so I can't see why they shouldn't for other purposes.
Our 5'er is accepted as a residence in Portugal.

Here they have to have an address . It also has to be backed up with a padron, basically showing that you are registered in the local electoral roll. Only thing here is a set of house/land deeds or a legal rental document.

 

[2657]

Here they have to have an address . It also has to be backed up with a padron, basically showing that you are registered in the local electoral roll. Only thing here is a set of house/land deeds or a legal rental document.

We have an address, atestado from the local freguesia verified by two residents and the residencia issued by the Camara Municipal in Tavira, €15 from memory.
How can you be on the electoral roll when neither resident or citizen?

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[Ernesto]

This conversation really has headed down a rabbit hole of unknown detail

The UK has taken the moral high ground and signed off 180 days. Not surprisingly we declined the EUs generous reciprocal offer - you can bet anything that was offered in the fraught months before the deal was struck, will have come with massive strings attached. We were negotiating hard at that point (better late than never) ...and they eventually did a good job.

When the Brexit dust settles, and the bills have to be paid, and the tourism jobs and other votes are there to be won.. then we’ll see what happens.... as soon as one EU country goes, they’ll all go

 

[Ernesto]

All we need to do is wave a few thousand tons of that fish we won back, under Macrons nose ...and reel him in
Lets face it, we dont need it - we haven’t got the boats to catch it or the markets to buy it. Most British households knowledge of fish extends to chip shop cod, (haddock if they’re feeling brave), salmon and prawns. Show them a lovely piece of hake, fresh sardines, anchovies not in tins or even an octopus and they whistle for the cat......

 

[jumar]

Why didn't all those folk who are saying they will miss going to their favorite EU countries for extended stays, apply to be resident there, before 31st December 2020 that was........
Lots did, we have, and can stay in our favorite EU country as long as we wish, and visit other EU countries, and if so desired go to the UK, to visit family, have a holiday for up tp 180 days, all legal, all simple.....I understand not everyone can just leave the UK due to family ties, work etc, but many could have, but not so easily now I'm afraid....different times, different rules....lets move on...

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[Li150]

Well done Martin,
Possibly the best comment made on the subject

 

[Don Quixote]

Guy's give it a few years and this bloody virus goes and things will change. I see in 2/3 years the EU relaxing many of not all the restrictions as the income will be needed so much to help the EU recover.

I friend of mine aways states "good things come to these who wait"

Fingers crossed eh............

 

[gus-lopez]

How can you be on the electoral roll when neither resident or citizen?

legally you can't but councils are paid for each resident registered. Some accept deeds from holiday home owners & register them as it helps to offset the ones who live there all year round using services without being resident.Other councils vehemently enforce the residency rule .

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