Prohibition of Motor Caravans in Scarborough area. (1 Viewer)

[jezport]

It's still rather ambiguous and has no facts behind it. It doesn't reflect what locals told me when I spoke to them. Traders were glad of the extra revenue. They need to have facts and figures, has there actually been any official complaint reports from locals. I don't think there has been!

 

[GJH]

It's still rather ambiguous and has no facts behind it. It doesn't reflect what locals told me when I spoke to them. Traders were glad of the extra revenue. They need to have facts and figures, has there actually been any official complaint reports from locals. I don't think there has been!

I don't know, but that is something which can be explored in comments on the consultation or through FoI reports. On the other hand, looking at comments on this thread and Broken Link Removedthat is running, they are also short of facts and figures as well so it could well come down to who is most persuasive (or has the loudest voice).

In reality we all knew this was never going to go away. Hence my point on the other thread that people to put forward their views against restrictions if they don't want them to be imposed by default.

 

[carl65]

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MY COMMENTS
"motor caravans and motor homes are a integral part of keeping people in uk the areas talked about are holiday destinations would the council rather have people travel out of the country i am sure shopkeepers would not be happy with the money they bring in to the region,
the rest of Europe have dedicated car parks for the type of vans we seem to want to oust them should you also ban coaches as these take much more road space and and clog up the towns more than motorhomes do"


carl birkenshaw

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[Spud]

Part of the increasing parking problems being encountered by the MH fraternity may be partly due to the fact that the various authorities are bringing in these restrictions because of the unspoken problem they face from the 'do-as-you-likey's'.
Since the licencing laws changed, the ability to tow a caravan by the (rapidly increasing) younger members of this band of traveling rodeo's, has meant that to avoid the hassels of constantly having to stop to assist the law with their enquiries and sitting a further(!!) test and all the associated proofs required for both problems, a large and growing number are now purchasing (some very nice) MH's.
It it also worth noting that the toilet facilities in whichever type of mobile domicile that they have is almost never used!!!
Spud.

 

[2657]

Thank you for submitting your form
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MY COMMENTS
"motor caravans and motor homes are a integral part of keeping people in uk the areas talked about are holiday destinations would the council rather have people travel out of the country i am sure shopkeepers would not be happy with the money they bring in to the region,
the rest of Europe have dedicated car parks for the type of vans we seem to want to oust them should you also ban coaches as these take much more road space and and clog up the towns more than motorhomes do"


carl birkenshaw

Motorhome 20/25 ft......2/4 people

Coach 40ft.........................50/60 people

Don't think that's going to happen in a seaside tourist town.

 

[Baycott]

I left my details to be contacted to discuss further. If anyone does contact me I'll report back.

Same here

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[GJH]

Part of the increasing parking problems being encountered by the MH fraternity

What increased parking problems are those?
My contacts with all UK LAs indicate that, on the whole, provision for parking of motorhomes during the day is increasing.
New restrictions on overnight camping (such as in Scarborough), when one takes the the UK as a whole, are probably balanced by new provisions (such as the ones at Canterbury, Fylde and Hawick).

 

[scotjimland]

"motor caravans and motor homes are a integral part of keeping people in uk the areas talked about are holiday destinations would the council rather have people travel out of the country i am sure shopkeepers would not be happy with the money they bring in to the region,
the rest of Europe have dedicated car parks for the type of vans we seem to want to oust them should you also ban coaches as these take much more road space and and clog up the towns more than motorhomes do"

The ban is between 11pm and 7am .. this to stop people camping in their vans and turning the streets into camp sites.. it's not a 24hr Parking Ban .. it is not to create road space or stop congestion.. they are allowed to park the same as cars and coaches..

Do coaches park up overnight and let the passengers sleep in the seats ? .. Of course not, if it's more than a one day trip the people are booked into hotels and the coach parks in a coach park. That's what responsible morohome owners do.. book a site then come in for they day.. what's the objection to that ?

 

[BONZO]

Iv filled it in........Its there loss. And a shame as we all like going there.

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[Cobweb]

I filled it in as well and suggested an Aire type of development .....not holding much hope . I have often seen MH parked in the marina car park overnight in Whitby and as long as they keep a low profile it has been tolerated . Although I would not recommend it since a lot of local youth use the adjoining road as a racetrack as well as a hangout. The problem is that when the town is full to bursting there is very little room for anyone to park on the streets or car parks . Some motorhomers spoiled it for everyone staying on the West Cliff spoiling the residents view thus causing motorhomers become undesirables . Parking charges were be introduced as well as schemes like this one as a result .

 

[pappajohn]

The A64 seamer road park n ride could so easily be used as temporary MH parking overnight.

Even in summer it is never more than 2/3rd full leaving maybe 100 free spaces during the day.
Problem is it closes it's barriers at 7pm every day and is so close to town most visitors simply ignore it and continue into town anyway.

 

[pappajohn]

Shout, moan and fill in forms as much as you want.....it is going to be passed regardless.

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[John & Joan]

I have just received an email with the documents attached.

Good afternoon
Please see attached consultation documents concerning proposals upon which you have expressed a previous interest, for your information. The contents of the letter should be self-explanatory.

Please be aware that the consultation period has been extended and comments will be accepted up until the 19th March 2015.

Kind regards
Emily Murphy
Project Engineer
Area 3 Whitby Office
North Yorkshire County Council
Whitby Highways Depot
Discovery Way
Whitby
YO22 4PZ
08458727374

I received an email on 6th February from Richard Pennell Legal Officer - Environment with the same info. I will now have to check to see if there are any differences.

Andy Strangway sent an email this morning "On Monday morning the National Motorhome Organisation (NMO) submitted 28 questions to NYCC. The NMO will submit their objection to the order as soon as answers are received." I wonder if this triggered the new email?

 

[GJH]

Has the NMO actually got any members (besides Andy Strangeway) @John & Joan ?

 

[pappajohn]

Has the NMO actually got any members (besides Andy Strangeway) @John & Joan ?

Members.....MEMBERS......he doesnt even have a motorhome.

His own website states there is no membership as we know it.

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[Goshawk]

just completed form

 

[John & Joan]

NORTH YORKSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL

PROPOSED PROHIBITION OF OVERNIGHT PARKING FOR MOTOR CARAVANS

BETWEEN 11.00 PM AND 7.00 AM –

STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR MAKING PERMANENT TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER

Introduction

There are a number of attractive sea-front streets within the sea side towns in Scarborough Borough, which in recent years, with the increase in the interest in motor-caravanning, have seen a proliferation in the amount of motor caravans parking and being occupied for a number of nights on the highway. It is considered that the volume of motor caravans seeking access to these streets for this purpose detracts from the amenities of the streets for their residents and other highway users. It is reported that heavily affected sea-side streets often experience one motor caravan being replaced by another.. The County Council is proposing to introduce the proposed Traffic Regulation Order to permanently preserve and address the consequent loss of amenities and to supercede the existing temporary overnight parking restrictions for motor caravans on the roads affected, with the addition of a section of road in Sandsend, which has not been previously covered by a temporary order.

Legal Powers

The County Council are seeking to make the Order pursuant to Section 1(1)(f) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which allows a traffic authority to make a Traffic Regulation Order where it appears expedient to make it "for preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs".

Section 122 of the 1984 Act also confers a duty on local authorities to exercise the functions contained on them by the Act so as to secure the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of vehicular and other traffic (including pedestrians) and the provision of suitable and adequate parking facilities on and off the highway, having regard to (inter alia) the effect on the amenities of any locality affected and, specifically, the importance of regulating and restricting the use of roads by heavy commercial vehicles, so as to preserve or improve the amenities of the areas through which the roads run.

Loss of Amenities

The order refers to motor caravans and no other vehicle type as the above losses of amenity are most associated with this category of vehicle and whilst it is appreciated that overnight camping may be undertaken in another category of vehicle, the combination of the amenity issues detailed below are significantly likely to be associated with motor-caravans and therefore it is considered that the overnight prohibition of this category of vehicle will improve the amenity of the affected streets.

The specific amenities that the Council considers are impacted upon by the overnight camping of motor caravans are the change in character of a street (from a public highway for all to enjoy, to a camping site), loss of view/sea view for other highway users and particularly for neighbouring properties, noise, litter, extraneous light, and the depositing of waste into highway gullies.

The amenities of the area at the various locations will be improved by the proposed Order because during the evenings and into the night it is felt that residents and business owners should reasonably expect some respite from the parking of motor caravans, for sometimes long durations, in these popular affected sea side streets. Residents should have the reasonable right to enjoy the aspect of their properties and the amenities of the area without large vehicles inhabiting the street adjacent to and in close proximity to their homes, (which in the locations includes, as an amenity, a sea-side aspect).

The amenities are further detracted from through over-night parking of such vehicles due to the impact upon some public services (including road sweeping and waste emptying that overnight camping brings

with it). Further to this, by restricting access at night it ensures that there is a turnover in the spaces taken by such vehicles and ensures they do not park, for sometimes more than a week, outside individual properties. There are many other locations in Scarborough Borough where motor caravans may continue to park unrestricted on the publicly maintainable highway.

The proposed prohibition would cover locations which, prior to the introduction of the temporary orders referred to above, tended to attract motor caravans plus a further section of road in Sandsend that has not been previously covered by a temporary order, yet reportedly experiences similar problems with amenities being affected by motor-caravans. Overnight occupancy of motor caravans on the highway fundamentally alters the nature of the highway in these locations, with negative consequences.

The overnight occupancy of motor caravans means that the individuals residing in the vehicle are temporarily dwelling in the location, and in close proximity to the curtilage of properties that adjoin the highway. This can impact upon the rights of the permanent residents to enjoyment of their property, and their privacy.

The overnight occupancy of motor caravans generates noise, sometimes within close proximity to residential properties which can be anti-social for permanent residents.

The overnight occupancy of motor vehicles on the highway, in locations which do not include appropriate facilities for camping, can lead to inappropriate use of highway gullies and drains for the depositing of waste. The effective "camping" on the highway also generates larger volumes of refuse, beyond the normal amounts of litter generated by those visiting the location for a short-stay. This refuse can be deposited in public litter bins, a purpose for which they are not designed, and a seasonal high volume of waste has historically been experienced in the various locations, which can cause spillages onto the highway and may necessitate the Borough Council increasing its cleansing schedule, to allow the for the bins to be used by day trippers as intended.

Overnight occupancy of motor caravans can increase the level of lighting on the highway during the hours of darkness. This is undesirable because it can be distracting for highway users and anti-social in locations which are in close proximity to nearby residential properties.

It is acknowledged that a 24 hour prohibition of motor caravans would be needed to ensure the amenities referred to above remain completely unaffected, however the Authority does not wish to completely remove the opportunity for those with motor-caravans to access these locations.

Conclusion

The 1984 Act makes it clear that the "amenities" to be preserved or improved are those of the area through which the road(s) run(s) and the County Council acknowledges that there is a balance to be struck between the interests of any class of road users, the interests of other classes of road users and the interests of streetward residents. Not all amenities of the area would be preserved, as one of the amenities is the 24 hour use of the affected streets by motor caravans, which would be prevented by the Order. The County Council also acknowledges that the current temporary overnight parking restrictions were introduced for environmental reasons to aid in the prevention of occupants of motor caravans depositing waste onto the highway and that there are other legal remedies available to tackle this specific issue, but that there are nonetheless additional factors (specified above) which all combine to affect the amenities of the area affected. As stated above, there are many other locations in Scarborough Borough where motor caravans may continue to park unrestricted on the publicly maintainable highway and the Council do not consider it necessary to provide additional dedicated parking places for motor caravans. It is the amenities of the area which on balance are required to be considered as preserved or improved and the County Council takes the view that the proposed Order would be expedient in achieving the purpose of "preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs" in line with the provisions of the 1984 Act

 

[John & Joan]

Has the NMO actually got any members (besides Andy Strangeway) @John & Joan ?

As far as I know Graham, they do have a group that meets socially. We are not members but I get regular emails from Andy. Quote from a recent one "I would like to thank everyone for all the cards and bottles of beer. I would also like to thank the Corner Pin for their open policy to all which allowed Alexis the transvestite to enjoy the weekend."

I do know that the Motorhome Tourism Organisation now has 800 members with another 326 on its Facebook page where the discussions take place. We use the website as an information resource.

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[John & Joan]

Members.....MEMBERS......he doesnt even have a motorhome.

His own website states there is no membership as we know it.

Andy operates on his own. The NMO is a group that works closely with him.

 

[GJH]

As far as I know Graham, they do have a group that meets socially. We are not members but I get regular emails from Andy. Quote from a recent one "I would like to thank everyone for all the cards and bottles of beer. I would also like to thank the Corner Pin for their open policy to all which allowed Alexis the transvestite to enjoy the weekend."

I do know that the Motorhome Tourism Organisation now has 800 members with another 326 on its Facebook page where the discussions take place. We use the website as an information resource.

Members.....MEMBERS......he doesnt even have a motorhome.

His own website states there is no membership as we know it.

Andy operates on his own. The NMO is a group that works closely with him.

According to the NMO web page "Membership of the NMO is free to everyone who supports the aims of the NMO. Everyone who supports the aims of the NMO are free to call themselves a member of the NMO." which really means that it is just a title dreamed up to try to pretend that it is something more substantial than it really is. If we know that then no doubt NYCC does as well and the pretence is likely to do more harm than good.

As regards the MTO, this discussion prompted me to have a look for the first time in ages. You appear to be the only one of the 800 putting in any effort John.

 

[jezport]

Since the temporary ban started I have only visited scarborough once and that was part of Andy Strangeways protest.

We used to visit every month but now go to St Anne's in Lancashire instead. We love visiting coastal areas, Fish n Chips and ice cream on the beach. St Anne's is great. And we are welcome there.

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[GJH]

Since the temporary ban started I have only visited scarborough once and that was part of Andy Strangeways protest.

We used to visit every month but now go to St Anne's in Lancashire instead. We love visiting coastal areas, Fish n Chips and ice cream on the beach. St Anne's is great. And we are welcome there.

The second paragraph is the sort of point that needs to be made in response to the consultation if a case is to be made (though as NYCC itself points out only a few streets are actually affected and there is no bar proposed on other streets).

Unfortunately, the "protest" referred to in the first paragraph is the sort of thing which will harden attitudes against motorhomes.

 

[glenm]

Done

 

[gus-lopez]

Done. Can't see that they are going to give me a ring though ?

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[knokinonabit]

Well that's nice isn't it !
Only motorhomes to be banned.
I'll show 'em when I rock up every weekend in a 44 tonne articulated double deck 'fridge truck.

 

[extra300]

Done the business. I added the comment to mine about the reduced impact to road congestion a motorhome has over a caravan unit, (not knocking caravans, we used to have one before we saw the light) and a reminder of the horrendous traffic problems round the Scarborough/Filey area. I know. We live between Malton and York just off the A64 Scarborough car-park. They'd do better to sort out the congestion on the sea front, and make it safer for the kids.
Hope it helps!

 

[Techno]

Without having read any part of the thread but responding purely to the post title as one of many threads regarding Scarborough, I wonder why anyone wants to go there anyway? A horrible money grubbing environment charging the earth just for a pee Oh Please!
A retail community of tat shops selling the same crap, is there really anything there worth a second visit? IMHO

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[Drexxer]

We used to surf there many moons ago, even then it was a pain for parking, now we prefer Whitby or Robin Hoods bay " less chavy"

Oliver's Mount is worth a second visit,

Andy

 

[Bailey58]

Just an excerpt from a useful post by @markh on a Spanish Police Facebook page:


The motorhomes have legal right to park in any place that other vehicles may, they can not be discriminated because of the type of vehicle that they are. Townhalls do not have any powers to ban motorhomes from parking in any place if the parking is allowed for vehicles.

Perhaps the next Funster who comments on the NYCC consultation might include that bit of Spanish legalise.

 

[Cobweb]

Without having read any part of the thread but responding purely to the post title as one of many threads regarding Scarborough, I wonder why anyone wants to go there anyway? A horrible money grubbing environment charging the earth just for a pee Oh Please!
A retail community of tat shops selling the same crap, is there really anything there worth a second visit? IMHO

Scarborough has a geographically lovely location and it used to be a very upmarket resort . Unfortunately it has become a dormitory for the unemployed and unemployable when many hotels and B&B s decided that it was an easy option . This has resulted in tacky cheap shops and a the decline of the high street. Sad but true . There are still some nice spots worth a visit such as the old town as well as the spa . I must agree that Whitby as well as Robin Hoods Bay have much more appeal .

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