Progress ?

[Figaro]

I had to double check it isn't 1st April.


https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-scheme-for-motorway-cables-to-power-lorries

 

[Clarky]

Great idea, why has no one thought of it before?
Would be excellent for busses around towns.
While they're at it they could dig up urban roads and install rails, then we could have trams and trolley busses.
Wow, what progress!

Richard.

 

[pappajohn]

12.5 miles of motorway..... Brilliant idea.... Oh, hang on... How are trucks going to overtake if neccesary?
One broken down vehicle and a tailback of trucks stuck behind it.
They should put me on the development team, cos they are bloody clueless.

 

[tonyidle]

12.5 miles of motorway..... Brilliant idea.... Oh, hang on... How are trucks going to overtake if neccesary?
One broken down vehicle and a tailback of trucks stuck behind it.
They should put me on the development team, cos they are bloody clueless.

Why would overtaking be needed? As for a breakdown surely most times they'd reach the hard shoulder? They also have batteries.

 

[rolosroller]

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[pappajohn]

Why would overtaking be needed?

I often ask myself the same thing, but they do.
A truck overtakes another and take a minute or more before it's passed and pulled back in.
60 minutes later the overtaking truck has gained about one mile.

One thing is certain.... It will cost exactly £2m to see if its feasible but will not happen.

 

[tonyidle]

One thing is certain.... It will cost exactly £2m to see if its feasible but will not happen

You're probably correct but it works for the railways so why not? As for overtaking it would simply be impossible - probably no bad thing assuming excellent hill-climbing performance. Breakdowns would be as now - almost invariably on the hard shoulder. It would be cheaper to install and operate than some of the alternatives especially as no change to warehousing and delivery scheduling would be needed.

 

[The Lord Squid]

Red lorry, yellow lorry, red lorry, trolley lorry.

 

[Sandancers]

You're probably correct but it works for the railways so why not? As for overtaking it would simply be impossible - probably no bad thing assuming excellent hill-climbing performance. Breakdowns would be as now - almost invariably on the hard shoulder. It would be cheaper to install and operate than some of the alternatives especially as no change to warehousing and delivery scheduling would be needed.

The hard shoulder ? Is that the one which another team of scientists, decided would be better used as Smart Motorways ?

 

[denisejoe]

Why would overtaking be needed? As for a breakdown surely most times they'd reach the hard shoulder? They also have batteries.

What hard shoulder

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[tonyidle]

The hard shoulder ? Is that the one which another team of scientists, decided would be better used as Smart Motorways ?

My point is that if you can reach safety with a Diesel engine I see no difference if you are driving a trolley lorry. Smart motorways are another discussion (where I think we'd agree ).

 

[tonyidle]

What hard shoulder

As I've just replied to Sandancers.

 

[Grummyb]

There are already trialling this in Sweden I think and electric lorries are here if we want them or or not

 

[Figaro]

.... and I thought batteries were the future, or so we keep being told.
Imagine the cost of electrifying the motorway network, mind boggling

 

[tonyidle]

.... and I thought batteries were the future, or so we keep being told.
Imagine the cost of electrifying the motorway network, mind boggling

Probably cheaper (or no more expensive) than a hydrogen refuelling network.

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[Two on Tour]

There is already a section of motorway with these trucks running on it in Germany for the past couple of years.

 

[PP Bear]

It's all very simple really.

All you need it a big spring and a large key...........

 

[Just smiffy]

How much power has to go through those lines when you’ve got 40 trucks in one mile …

 

[Vipar]

How much power has to go through those lines when you’ve got 40 trucks in one mile …

I don’t know but don’t touch it.

 

[TinaLes]

The might as well make the new electric lorries autonomous also, as if we cant get drivers now, what chance in the future?
This really is a Pink Elephant, to ask Lorry Makers like Scannia, Volvo & Daf to make electric HGV's with such a slow roll out of electrified motorways, even if it is given the go ahead, look how long it takes them to turn a motorway into a "Smart", Sorry new phrase "Digital One" plus the cost of course.
Delivery Drones are the answer surely
As for Day to Day Commuting, Stuff TFL...Beam me up Scotty
Well The Guardian started be silly before me.
LES

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[phillipsheila]

How much power has to go through those lines when you’ve got 40 trucks in one mile …

I don’t know but don’t touch it.

How many signs will they have put up not to fly kites near the lines. That will cost 2 million per mile
Ive had a few sherberts so be gentle

 

[Clipgate]

Why have drivers on truncking routes, no drive no ego that needs to overtake, Bluetooth connectivity in convoy.
Is that not already being trialed?

A I revolution, next will be population reduction, but that is yet to be trialed, or is there a plan?
Did you think I was joking, well it's no joke. Driver shortage not for long is my guess.

Lorry technology trials could slash fuel costs and congestion

Lorry 'platooning' could have major benefits for motorists and businesses in the UK.

www.gov.uk

 

[Lenny HB]

What about loading the freight onto railway trucks for the long haul deliveries then at goods yards distribute the loads on smaller economic trucks for local delivery.

Might have to demolish those houses they built on the old goods yards.

 

[Vikdikdok]

I don’t know but don’t touch it.

- Or let you dog pee up against a supporting post

 

[emjaiuk]

What about loading the freight onto railway trucks for the long haul deliveries then at goods yards distribute the loads on smaller economic trucks for local delivery.

Might have to demolish those houses they built on the old goods yards.

The current idea of converting EMUs/DMUs passenger trains to carry palletised goods may be the way forward. Otherwise transhipment costs would make it a no no. I think the new Chinese development of trackless trams has potential for freight.

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[SpeedyDux]

Why would overtaking be needed? As for a breakdown surely most times they'd reach the hard shoulder? They also have batteries.

What hard shoulder? Becoming more scarce. I hear there are plans to make the whole length of the M1 a "smart motorway" with all lane running at peak times including hard shoulder.

Every incremental addition to electricity demand adds pressure on the existing creaking infrastructure and energy supply. To put things in a wider context, UK energy needs including industry, transport, and heating are currently about 83% fossil fuel powered. Switching to the new Net Zero needs vast investment in the UK electricity generation, supply and distribution infrastructure which at the moment is too focused on the trendy wind and solar sectors that can't possibly replace current demand let alone meet additional demand from EV cars vans and trucks (when you add domestic electric heating that scale of unicorn green utopian presumption becomes absurd.) HM Treasury is balking at the estimated £1.3 Trillion that will be needed.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Why have drivers on truncking routes, no drive no ego that needs to overtake, Bluetooth connectivity in convoy.
Is that not already being trialed?

A I revolution, next will be population reduction, but that is yet to be trialed, or is there a plan?
Did you think I was joking, well it's no joke. Driver shortage not for long is my guess.

Lorry technology trials could slash fuel costs and congestion

Lorry 'platooning' could have major benefits for motorists and businesses in the UK.

www.gov.uk

Expect more traffic light controls on slip roads to enter motorways and maybe a long queue time. Convoys of platooning trucks will otherwise block Lane 1 (and hard shoulder on smart motorways) for miles. In effect this prioritises trucks above other road users just to save the hauliers some wage costs for mostly low paid truck drivers. How does that make economic sense in the bigger scheme of things?

 

[gus-lopez]

.... and I thought batteries were the future, or so we keep being told.
Imagine the cost of electrifying the motorway network, mind boggling

So where is all this electricity coming from? Do we now have an electricity tree to go with the money one?
By the time you have changed all the new houses to electric only along with EV's & now mways for trucks they will need a dozen more nuclear power stations.

 

[tonyidle]

What hard shoulder? Becoming more scarce. I hear there are plans to make the whole length of the M1 a "smart motorway" with all lane running at peak times including hard shoulder.

Every incremental addition to electricity demand adds pressure on the existing creaking infrastructure and energy supply. To put things in a wider context, UK energy needs including industry, transport, and heating are currently about 83% fossil fuel powered. Switching to the new Net Zero needs vast investment in the UK electricity generation, supply and distribution infrastructure which at the moment is too focused on the trendy wind and solar sectors that can't possibly replace current demand let alone meet additional demand from EV cars vans and trucks (when you add domestic electric heating that scale of unicorn green utopian presumption becomes absurd.) HM Treasury is balking at the estimated £1.3 Trillion that will be needed.

My point was that hard shoulder or not a trolley lorry would cause no more of a hold-up than a Diesel equivalent. Electricity supply notwithstanding a system such as this would be more power-efficient than any other. Electricity is required to provide hydrogen or to charge batteries (if batteries were ever practical for heavy transport): using electricity to directly power the vehicle is more energy efficient than any other method. Providing the overhead cables and substations may not be any more expensive than providing hydrogen infrastructure and is a proven and familiar technology. Of the options available for heavy transport this is the best I've seen so far. Grid capacity will affect every zero emissions technology.

 

[SpeedyDux]

My point was that hard shoulder or not a trolley lorry would cause no more of a hold-up than a Diesel equivalent. Electricity supply notwithstanding a system such as this would be more power-efficient than any other. Electricity is required to provide hydrogen or to charge batteries (if batteries were ever practical for heavy transport): using electricity to directly power the vehicle is more energy efficient than any other method. Providing the overhead cables and substations may not be any more expensive than providing hydrogen infrastructure and is a proven and familiar technology. Of the options available for heavy transport this is the best I've seen so far. Grid capacity will affect every zero emissions technology.

It may be energy efficient at the vehicle end but this needs to be balanced against the efficiency of the power generation itself (about 40% for thermal power stations) and normal transmission losses along the distribution system. Overhead catenary systems have failures and inherent risks. Adding a new hazard of live high voltage cables lying across the carriageway is something motorists can do without.

Will the hauliers be obliged to pay the full cost of amortising the big investment in extra infrastructure? Would that make the proposal uneconomic relative to the current cost of diesel trucking? It looks like a very expensive solution to achieve a relatively small CO2 gain.

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