Pre Delivery Check - Or Not ? Quality Control - Definately Not ! (1 Viewer)

[Highwayman1]

Just called at a friends house to look at their new (15 plate) Eldiss Evolution motorhome. Being unusually nosy and a tad jealous of the newness of their purchase I gave it `a good seeing to` in order that I could come home and cry in my 20 year old vehicle outside. Imagine then my surprise when I noticed underneath that the foil bubble wrap around the water tank was coming away after only 70 miles. As I am repairing mine at the moment I volunteered to stick the wrap back for him with silver `sticky back` foil tape I have at home.
One side done I went to the other side to do that as well (!) and saw whilst underneath that the hole where the blue waste water pipe passes thru` the floor had not been Sikaflexed and nice new unprotected plywood was visible. Further looking around found 2 further holes, (that had no apparent purpose), drilled thru` the floor showing the same new unprotected plywood. Also visible was a broken and loose hose clip that should have been attached to the waste pipes - and obviously wasn`t. . My friend made his list as I called the things out and he was going to pass them to the dealers (BH) for the jobs to be done.
Given that the dealer should do a pre delivery inspection and the manufacturer has a duty to sell a product `fit for purpose` would I want to spend nearly £40k on a new van when , repairing my own , however annoying and time consuming, would give me peace of mind that it has been done properly (this time).
Beware Eldiss buyers - ask to check the under side of the van on a ramp at the dealers , and do your own quality control because they obviously don`t . Just saying

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

I know of at least one dealer who quite openly admits that they do not PDI their new vehicles as "It's already been done at the manufacturer"

Manufacturers do not PDI, they just have a series of QC checks none of which check that the vehicle is to the spec that the customer ordered at the dealer.

I once ordered a new MH from said dealer and it was missing 2 major components but the dealer would have been quite happy to watch me drive away in it as it was.

Newbie buyers should take an experienced mate with them and do a thorough check BEFORE handing over the balance of the money.

 

[jezport]

Buy British! Reminds me of the old British Leyland Quality

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[Bobby22]

The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude..........Maybe it is time that us (that are not dependant on advertising revenue) should make a stand.

We need something like a JD Power survey of dealers and manufacturers........The people i've spoken to on the subject say that ALL new British Supplied motorhomes have " snagging issues".

In this day and age of Social media, is it time to " name and shame"?

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

I'm perfectly happy to name the dealer I had an issue with:
Cranham Caravans, Essex.

Were attempting to fob me off with an incomplete vehicle and then let me sort out all the issues with the manufacturer, Autosleeper.

I will never do business with them again and, if asked, would discourage anyone else from dealing with them.

 

[Allanm]

I've written about the QC issues and faults that I have had on our van here and also on the Autosleeper Owners Forum.
Must admit, there weren't many and none that stopped us using the van, but they are things that should be fitted or designed properly before the van leaves the factory.

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[dave newell]

"The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude..........Maybe it is time that us (that are not dependant on advertising revenue) should make a stand."

As someone who could be referred to as a "habitation engineer" (even though its not a title I'd choose) I find sweeping statements like this downright offensive!

The reality is that while there are some who are less careful about their work standards there are plenty of good honest reputable dealers and workshops.

D.

 

[DBK]

Modern automotive manufacturing as a generality doesn't rely on lots of inspections. The idea is to do something right the first time, not have to check and then correct. A typical modern vehicle (made in the UK!) from say Jaguar Land Rover or Nissan just comes off the production line correct, they don't need to crawl all over it to see if it has been made properly. A few safety critical items like wheel nuts might be checked but nothing else.

Unfortunately, this type of manufacturing isn't universal so extensive quality checks are required and from what I've read here the motorhome industry is one of those areas it is needed.

 

[Molls-Phot]

Having just collected a brand new coach built I wholeheartedly agree. A snagging list as long as your arm and a safety recall to boot. And it's not long left the factory! Not impressed with the attitude of the dealer either.

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[ubuntu1]

Wow some sweeping statements on here. I can assure you that there are a lot of good engineers out there that are just as frustrated as you with the quality control from the manufacturers. The industry is trying - schemes like the Approved Workshop Scheme is designed to improve standards. If a dealer says to an engineer - PDi that vehicle in 30 minutes what do you expect. The manufacturers and dealers need to start taking quality seriously or we will see people moving to overseas made motorhomes in much greater numbers and thats bad for British business.

 

[Highwayman1]

My original post was really about my surprise (and jealousy) at the lack of attention to detail or concern that a product was being sold new that had such glaring `faults`. Neither the manufacturer nor the vendor apparently cared how it was perceived by others.
In my current position of repairing my 20 year old `van` I have found that previous repairs to mine were cosmetic to the point of hiding the problem of damp, by double skinning the wall in places. Whoever did the work, be they professional or amateur didn`t even replace the staples in the window rubber before putting the cover strip back on ! Now who would check that on purchase from a dealer ?

It also more than helps to have a forum like MHF that advises and passes on the funsters knowledge and to alert others to good and bad. Trust, knowledge and reputation go a long way, as we all know on here.
I try not to `broad brush ` any one or thing , just point out what I know or what I have experienced personally in my life.
Retiring early and a single parent doesn`t make me a Benefits scrounger does it ? - because I acted to protect my children and had to pay £10k to do so.

 

[zac]

We had the same argument when we brought a brand new motorhome Elddis Autoquest 155 from http://www.motorhomesltd.com/ . Had multiple issues with defects not being picked up and Elddis saying it was down to the Dealer not checking and the dealer saying nothing to do with them it was down to Elddis to check their vehicles before delivery.
Shocking service from both hence why we sold the Elddis after only 3 months, our new one which is an Autotrail Delaware 2015 reg was brought from BH and although we have had some issues they have been more than helpful in resolving them. i can only speak as i find and i am aware of others not having such a good service from the same dealers.

There is a definite lack of quality control going on from the point of having any new motorhome delivered to the person buying it. This i think has to be shared between both Manufacturers but also the dealers as they should be checking the basics although i take the point that the issues highlighted above may not of been picked up on a basic check.

Just my opinion.

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[Bobby22]

"The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude..........Maybe it is time that us (that are not dependant on advertising revenue) should make a stand."

As someone who could be referred to as a "habitation engineer" (even though its not a title I'd choose) I find sweeping statements like this downright offensive!

The reality is that while there are some who are less careful about their work standards there are plenty of good honest reputable dealers and workshops.

D.

I'm sorry you find it offensive, but in my very little experience in buying a new van and having " habitation engineers" for want of a better title, work on my van. They ALL seem to take short cuts and promise it will be " sorted".....only to have it back to do again.
I realise you are defending your business, but i am relaying my experiences.

 

[Bobby22]

I was speaking to an owner recently that had bought a brand new MH that had side skirts fitted (as standard) that wouldn't allow the wheel to come off at the back of the vehicle..........now if that isn't complete incompetence right through the system, i don't know.

 

[hilldweller]

Modern automotive manufacturing as a generality doesn't rely on lots of inspections.

We are talking motorhomes, it's not automotive, it's housebuilding. Much more reliance on the quality and skills of the workers whereas automotive is more reliant on CAD, computer control and robots, not so much room for stupid Friday afternoon mistakes.

Though having said that I once made the terrible mistake of Buying British in a Rover and got on intimate terms with fellow sufferers and the dealer's repair staff.

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[hilldweller]

a brand new MH that had side skirts fitted (as standard) that wouldn't allow the wheel to come off at the back of the vehicle...

Reported on here well over a year ago, if I remember correctly the makers were "looking in to it".

 

[dave newell]

I'm sorry you find it offensive, but in my very little experience in buying a new van and having " habitation engineers" for want of a better title, work on my van. They ALL seem to take short cuts and promise it will be " sorted".....only to have it back to do again.
I realise you are defending your business, but i am relaying my experiences.

I'm not so much "defending my business" as you put it as simply pointing out that to denegrate the entire industry based on your own "very little experience" is simply wrong and offensive to those of us who work hard to give our customers the first class service we believe they deserve.

I bought a saw once from a major retailer and it failed soon after purchase, I don't denegrate the retailer though or the manufacturers. I took it back and it was replaced with no question and the replacement has given many years of good service.

Yes there are plenty of people who have had poor service from dealers, workshops and small businesses but this doesn't mean the entire industry is out to rip you off.

D.

 

[knokinonabit]

I would like to refer you to this thread that I started and some of the comments in it about complaining long and loud.
The thing that we don't do half enough of in this country.
Name and shame the manufacturers until they get it right.
www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/autotrail-woes.53600/

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[Bobby22]

I'm not so much "defending my business" as you put it as simply pointing out that to denegrate the entire industry based on your own "very little experience" is simply wrong and offensive to those of us who work hard to give our customers the first class service we believe they deserve.

I bought a saw once from a major retailer and it failed soon after purchase, I don't denegrate the retailer though or the manufacturers. I took it back and it was replaced with no question and the replacement has given many years of good service.

Yes there are plenty of people who have had poor service from dealers, workshops and small businesses but this doesn't mean the entire industry is out to rip you off.

D.

Come on now Dave , no where have i said that the entire industry " is out to rip you off"

In my experience and that of others' ......the industry ........could improve on its pre delivery inspections of new Motorhomes.........and when there is a list of problems ......get them SORTED when they say they'll sort them.


Just as an aside.....if you bought a saw off a major retailer.........and had to go back with it SEVEN times...........( and found out others were getting the same treatment)...........before you got what you paid for........would you write about your experience on a saw forum as i' m doing on FUN

 

[tofo]

I'm perfectly happy to name the dealer I had an issue with:
Cranham Caravans, Essex.

Were attempting to fob me off with an incomplete vehicle and then let me sort out all the issues with the manufacturer, Autosleeper.

I will never do business with them again and, if asked, would discourage anyone else from dealing with them.

Seems I'm not alone then

 

[dave newell]

Come on now Dave , no where have i said that the entire industry " is out to rip you off"

In my experience and that of others' ......the industry ........could improve on its pre delivery inspections of new Motorhomes.........and when there is a list of problems ......get them SORTED when they say they'll sort them.


Just as an aside.....if you bought a saw off a major retailer.........and had to go back with it SEVEN times...........( and found out others were getting the same treatment)...........before you got what you paid for........would you write about your experience on a saw forum as i' m doing on FUN

From your first post on this thread: "The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude.........."

You may not have used the actual words "out to rip you off" but it was quite clearly inferred. My point, which you seem determined to ignore, is that not everyone in this industry is bad. Yes many people have issues with new motorhomes that should A/ not occur and B/ when they do occur be sorted quickly and efficiently but there really are many people who get great service from dealers and workshops alike who never say a word. Your argument that "The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude.........." is simply wrong!

But as usual it is easier to slate an entire industry than accept you may be mistaken.

D.

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[Gooney]

As far as Brand spanking new goes I've had two caravans and one Motor home, all with unacceptably long snag lists found on delivery....but the best one ever was on a caravan I took delivery of, I got the keys off the Sales person and drove around the back to hitch up and the hitch wouldn't go onto my tow ball, I called the sales guy round and he said your tow ball is faulty, erm, excuse me I've just towed in my part exchange with it, can you get me someone out here that knows what there talking about, eventually a service guy attended, changed the hitch and while he was doing so I gave the van a good coat of looking over, there was a lock barrels missing from the battery compartment and toilet cassette door, the spare wheel was missing (that was on the specification) and there was paint overspray on the front locker, not to worry they said, we can pop you a couple of lock barrels in and find you a spare wheel, I said I want a suite of matching keys please and a van that matches the specification, the tow hitch really was the coup de grace though, PDI' s my arse!!

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

It's not just about PDI and QC, it's about design, engineering and build ethos.
I spent my entire working life in vehicle manufacturing in various plants around the world and for a number of vehicle manufacturers.
I've seen so many instances of bad assembly being acceptable to one brand but unacceptable to another.
My last position was in a European plant that built both American badged cars and Japanese badged cars on the same line with 50% part commonality.
Time and time again there were serious conflicts about acceptable build quality of the same components. The production process for the American badge was to get them off line quickly and then let the team of QC guys do all the fixes. The Japanese team just couldn't grasp this idea, they would delay the build rather than bodge it.
I watched that ethos for 40 years.
I now own 2 vehicles, both Japanese even though I'm entitled to a discounted lease car with an American badge.

 

[Bobby22]

From your first post on this thread: "The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude.........."

You may not have used the actual words "out to rip you off" but it was quite clearly inferred. My point, which you seem determined to ignore, is that not everyone in this industry is bad. Yes many people have issues with new motorhomes that should A/ not occur and B/ when they do occur be sorted quickly and efficiently but there really are many people who get great service from dealers and workshops alike who never say a word. Your argument that "The whole British Industry from Manufacturer........to dealer........to habitation engineers all have the same attitude.........." is simply wrong!

But as usual it is easier to slate an entire industry than accept you may be mistaken.

D.

"Attitude" in my original post was inferring that manufacturer....dealer.....and habitation engineer........all accepted that snagging issues were the norm in new motorhomes.

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[dave newell]

"Attitude" in my original post was inferring that manufacturer....dealer.....and habitation engineer........all accepted that snagging issues were the norm in new motorhomes.

Then I apologise for misunderstanding the gist of your original post.

D.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

A typical modern vehicle (made in the UK!) from say Jaguar Land Rover or Nissan just comes off the production line correct

I take it you haven't been around many new ones in the last 5 or 6 years or so then?

They provide a free AA truck to follow you around these days.

My next door neighbour swapped an Evoque that was nothing but trouble for a Defender. The Defender's been in for service this week. Courtesy car was an Evoque. Half a day. Broken.

A guy I used to work for was a confirmed Land Rover/Ranger Rover man but even he finally saw the light. Every single one he had, new and second hand, in the time I was with him were a nightmare.

Lovely cars yes. Beautiful finish. But they don't work!

The Defender is OK because it's basically made of armour plating with nothing electronic to go wrong. Anything else made by Land Rover? Forget it.

 

[Langtoftlad]

It's not just motorhomes or caravans.
It's not just British brands.
Both my last two cars have been 'Japanese' - renowned for quality & attention to detail - on my Honda, they completely forgot to add the aircon (apart from the dash switch) - missed by both the manufacturers QI and the dealers PDI.

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