Possibly the most basic question ever asked on here? (1 Viewer)

chenderson1965

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Our N&B is on a 2012 Ducato 3.0 160hp. I’ve been taking it for a run at least each month if we haven’t been out in it. On Friday I thought it wasn’t going to start. The battery was fine but it was around zero degrees and the engine turned over very slowly before firing up. Is there a pre-heat function on the Ducato that means I need to turn the ignition key and then wait a few seconds before engaging the starter? On a previous diesel car there was a pre heat light that you had to wait until it went off before it was ready to start but I didn’t notice one in the van.

Either way, what can I do to protect myself from not being able to start it some cold morning when we’re away. We carry jump leads and I was wondering whether it’s worth splashing out in a booster pack (in which case I know I’d need one rated for the 3.0L engine)?

Thanks
Chris
 
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Apr 28, 2013
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I keep a booster pack just in case,try to remember to charge it occasionally.
The batteries are not so easy to get to in some vans.I successfully used it on a friends pick up with a 3 ltr motor,he kept saying that won’t do it,connected left for 30 seconds and burst into life,small enough to pack away but it sure packs a punch.
 
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Feb 22, 2011
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When you say the battery was fine, are you sure ?
A cold engine has thick oil making it more difficult to turn over and I suspect the battery was struggling.
I think modern diesels are less relient on pre heating the glow plugs, but still need to do so, but might be worth a try to see if it makes any difference.
Firstly I'd check the battery.

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Southdowners

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We had similar issues. We ended up having to get a new battery even though the original was less than a year old.
 
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chenderson1965

chenderson1965

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When you say the battery was fine, are you sure ?
A cold engine has thick oil making it more difficult to turn over and I suspect the battery was struggling.
I think modern diesels are less relient on pre heating the glow plugs, but still need to do so, but might be worth a try to see if it makes any difference.
Firstly I'd check the battery.
Yes. It was showing at 12.7v on the panel and 100% charge.
 
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Lead acid battery performance is much reduced when the battery is cold and often the first sign of a failing battery. Voltage can be misleading if the problem is sulphation because the parts of the plates that are not affected will still charge up to the usual voltage but at a much reduced capacity.

This was explained to me by an AA Battery man attending my neighbours car in a pervious very cold spell. He said that battery maintainers often failed to charge modern batteries properly and that he favoured chargers with a desulphation phase. He compared a sulphated battery to a hot water tank that had scaled up badly, you would still get some hot water out of it but not a bath full.

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Apr 29, 2009
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Yes. It was showing at 12.7v on the panel and 100% charge.
You should try to see what the voltage drops down to when it is trying to start the engine. I had one on a car which sat at 12.9v with no load but turning over the engine it dropped to 11v.
Replaced it and starting was fine.
How long a run are you giving it each month?
 
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DBK

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Yes. It was showing at 12.7v on the panel and 100% charge.
That would probably be the habitation battery voltage not the vehicle battery - unless there is a separate display for the vehicle battery. But the resting voltage isn't a reliable guide to the condition of the battery. Its how it performs under load which matters.

There are really only two possible causes, either the battery is on the way out or it has had the wrong oil put in. Of the two a failing battery is the most likely.
 
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Our 2010 does have a glow plug light but it goes out at the same time as the rest of them so Guess its just saying that the system is functioning.

You can help cold starting on a manual by putting your foot on the clutch, it means that the starter is having to turn the gearbox mainshaft in cold oil as well

IMO 6 years old is not an especially short time for a battery to be getting tired especially as you don't know for sure how the previous owner/s treated it, it may have been parked up for long periods Motorhomes frequently are.

Its less likely to fail while you are using it.

Did you get to Polch?

Jon

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AndyPK

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On a previous diesel car there was a pre heat light that you had to wait until it went off before it was ready to start but I didn’t notice one in the van.
Are you sure it’s not there....? A coiled wire symbol that comes on on first turn of the key.....
?
 
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chenderson1965

chenderson1965

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You should try to see what the voltage drops down to when it is trying to start the engine. I had one on a car which sat at 12.9v with no load but turning over the engine it dropped to 11v.
Replaced it and starting was fine.
How long a run are you giving it each month?
There was only me so I couldn't watch the voltage indicator at the same time as starting it. I'm taking it for a run of at least 20 mins, until its fully warmed up.
 
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chenderson1965

chenderson1965

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That would probably be the habitation battery voltage not the vehicle battery - unless there is a separate display for the vehicle battery. But the resting voltage isn't a reliable guide to the condition of the battery. Its how it performs under load which matters.

There are really only two possible causes, either the battery is on the way out or it has had the wrong oil put in. Of the two a failing battery is the most likely.
Definitely the vehicle battery. Ours shows hab battery and vehicle battery at the same time.

It's in having some work done at the moment so I've asked them to check that both battery and glow plugs are in good condition and working properly.

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chenderson1965

chenderson1965

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I would consider a 20 minute run to be inadequate to replace the "charge" lost from starting up let alone standing for a week or more.
Thanks. My research suggested 5-10 mins is enough to replace start up charge so I doubled the longest estimate. In practice it's been a bit more than that even.
 
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Apr 29, 2009
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I am with joka250 on this - I have always thought it needs quite a long run to replenish the battery.

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tonka

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If in doubt just change the battery (y) Especially being a "new to you" vehicle, you will have no history on how the battery has been used / abused.
As said above voltage may well show as good, until you hit the start button. If you wanted to find out then the battery is between the 2 front seats. Take off the hatch and connect a multimeter, you should be able to view that as you turn it over..

My Burstner is very similar to yours, 2012 3ltr auto. I have not seen any glow plug symbol light up as yet but had that all the time on my 2012 Autotrail. However as yet starts first time, no EHU but does have solar.
 
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DBK

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A lot of modern diesel engines don't have a glowplug light on the dash. The glowplugs on some models are turned on when the vehicle is unlocked or perhaps when the ignition key is inserted.
 
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motorhomer

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We have a 12 month old 2.3 ducato and that has a glowplug light. What has changed over the years is the speed at which the plugs warm up and the light goes out, now very quick when in the past it was quite slow.
I agree with others that a much longer run is needed to keep the batteries charged, frankly at 30 mins I wouldn't bother. If the only purpose is the battery, better to plug into mains.
However I also do take ours out for a run every month or so if not in use, but much longer than 30 mins. The purpose is not just the battery, its to keep everything else in working order, especially the brakes which can build up surface rust.

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I would consider a 20 minute run to be inadequate to replace the "charge" lost from starting up let alone standing for a week or more.
I read (I forget where) that it takes at least 7 miles driving to replace the charge required to start the engine. So 20 minutes is unlikely to be enough. As has been said by joka250 above.
 
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two

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I wouldn't bother with a boost pack. You can lumber yourself with too much clobber "just in case". If you have solar, a battery master (or similar) trickle charger should keep the starter topped up but it's more likely that the starter battery is coming to end of life.
If you have Alde heating, you may also have a pre-heat option with it that would allow you to warm up the engine block before you start.
 
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I have a 2008 2.3 Ducato.
The glow plug lamp on the dash usually goes out say 2 secs after truning the ignition on.
In the cold weather now (around freezing) it will preheat for about 5 or 6 secs.
I suspect if you only see a brief period in cold weather you may have a problem with your glowpugs or their control system.

Mine was reluctant to start (It did but after say 8 secs of cranking.)
Now I 'glow' it 3 times and then start. This seems to work very well with instant firing up.
 
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