Poor Battery Life (1 Viewer)

Dec 13, 2018
96
43
Europe
Funster No
57,564
MH
Euramobil integra 690HB
Exp
Since 2003 camping in works vans
Hi,
Em & I have leapt in at the deep end, bought an 2004 Euramobil integra 690, quit our jobs, let our house and headed onto the continent for as long as we can make things work on our budget.
At the moment, we seem to run the batteries (2x110 lead (I think,they have refillable acid/water cells) leisure batteries) down if we don't move on each day (we are wild camping as much as possible). We have some lights that we have now designated as only use when on hook up (despite them being LEDs, as all our lights are), but the real killer seems to be the truma blown air heating system. Is this common?

If we want to up our capacity what would ge our best option?
Mount a second solar panel (there is a mount up there that seems designed to take two not one), how much would this cost? Is it likely that the unit that controls the panel could cope with a second panel?
Add another set of batteries (there is room)? and make it so we could switch between the two sets?
Replace the batteries (I popped into the boatyard (we live on a Scottish island) with them before we left and checked they were still good, which they are)?
Buy a generator? If so, which type? (we have fitted an external bbq point, so we could get an lpg generator as we have a 50 litre tank, but they seem very expensive compared to a petrol one).
Turn on the engine, and use that as a generator? (Not a good way, but it seems better than buying a generator) does it charge while stationary? Roughly how long would it take to charge the batteries in this way.
Buy a little control unit, so we have a better understanding of what kills them (yesterday, it was the shower, so that raised the question of the water pump, the heating without the fans, and the light in there, generally we are guessing)?

Also, we have found a useful service point at a garage at a supermarket, where you could fill with water, empty the loo and grey tank, but also plug in on a token system. How does plugging in at one of these work, would it be for long enough to charge the batteries (if so, how long does that usually take?), long enough to do some paperwork on the laptops (we've not yet tried the inverter, mainly because we don't know how it will affect the batteries)? It just seems a bit odd to us.

I have a poor understanding of electricity and how it works, so any advice, please try and explain it to an idiot.
Thanks in advance?
Tim & Em
 
May 7, 2016
7,187
11,611
West Sussex
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42,951
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 2003
By 11V I think you are well into sulphating territory. As I mentioned above battery capacity can be much reduced by sulphates on the plates and this will not be revealed by short drop tests. If your batteries charge up to their full voltage but drop off too soon in normal use this would be my assessment. Think of it as sludge blocking off half the battery.

Some battery chargers have a desulphation setting which uses pulses of higher voltage to knock the problem off the plates. Might be worth trying.

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Jan 19, 2014
9,322
24,578
Derbyshire
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29,757
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Elddis Accordo 105
Exp
since 2014
The less they discharge each night the longer they'll last, fit a high quality battery monitor so you can obsess over it like me ;)

Screenshot_20190416-082936_Opera.jpg
 
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jo10000_6

Free Member
Dec 21, 2017
249
137
South Yorkshire
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51,697
MH
Hymer B544 Classic
Exp
Jan 2018
I fitted a battery monitor - same as Richard and Annes - easy to fit (I fitted it so it must have been !).

I obsess ! Richard told me I would - love it though - feel I have a better understanding of what’s happening.

My blow air system of the battery varies between 0.3 - 1 amp at full pelt which I think is ok so don’t assume the blow air is greedy until you know for sure.

Jo
 
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pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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That would line up with how we are using it, though with the truma blown air heating, it heats via gas (but unless I have my wires crossed), then uses electricity to blow it round. I did not know that it could be used on electricity, if so, would that explain the seemingly defunct controls at the steering wheel, and may it be that we have it on the wrong setting, or am I just confusing myself further here.
Blown air heating doesn't work on 12v except for the fan and electronics....you would never get warm.

Controls on the steering wheel are confusing me.
They are base vehicle related (radio, cruise control etc) and have NOTHING to do with the habitation electrics.

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Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
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26,797
MH
A class
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Since 2013
I think it's been down there once, generally as soon as the alarm sounds at 11v, we switch off the panel and use head torches etc. (Basically we treat it as if we are camping in a tent)
Still a problem. 12V batteries are flat when they are at 12V. Advise is avoid running them below 50%for any amount of time otherwise they will sulphate. I think you probably need new batteries.
 
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Apr 27, 2016
6,801
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Manchester
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42,762
MH
A class Hymer
Exp
Since the 80s
and an odd reading of -83.9amps that never seems to change.
Check the current sense wires on the shunt.

Battery current (amps) is usually measured using a 'shunt' resistor, which has four terminals. Two terminals are high-current terminals, big enough to take the whole of the current without a fuss. The other two are for thin low-current wires that allow the control panel to measure the tiny voltage drop across the shunt, and convert it to amps in the display.

If one of the thin shunt wires is detached or there's a bad connection, it picks up a tiny stray voltage from somewhere else, and it might think there is a very high current flowing. Hence the -83.9 amps reading.

The shunt is often located near the battery, in the negative lead, and it looks a bit like a big fuse.
shunt.jpeg

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Em and Tim
Dec 13, 2018
96
43
Europe
Funster No
57,564
MH
Euramobil integra 690HB
Exp
Since 2003 camping in works vans
Hi all, and thanks for your help with this, I think that it was the inverter, as we have isolated it, and not had much of an issue (though it has been hot, so the blown air heating has also not been on, and the solar panel working well). It did lead me to look at the shunt resistor, and the inverter. I will attach some photos of the wiring around the batteries, and of the inverter (a modified sine 1500w/3000w by a make called streetwize, it looks cheap), which on our one attempt to use it thus far, killed the charger for an electric toothbrush in a matter of minutes (I have changed the fuse, and it's still dead). Anyway, as all we would use it for is laptop and toothbrush charging, we are thinking of changing it for a pure sine one. Any recommendations, and would it just be a case of taking the old one out, and putting a new one in?

Anyway, here are the photos of the wires on the batteries. Any advice or recommendations (to a non electrical mind, I can wire plugs and lights, and have tools with me, but I don't understand it very well, my usual approach is to copy what already exists!) Would be greatly appreciated.
20190419_191811.jpg
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20190419_191932.jpg
 
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Lenny HB

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Oct 18, 2007
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On the coast in West Sussex
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658
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Hymer B678 DL
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Since 2008 & many years tugging
killed the charger for an electric toothbrush in a matter of minutes
You need a pure sine wave inverter for electric toothbrush charger, as you found out the hard way a modified sine inverter will kill it, it's been well documented on Fun.
Some of your battery wiring looks a bit iffy could do with a good tidy up and some new crimps on a few of the cables.
 
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thebriars

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Oct 20, 2018
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Anyway, as all we would use it for is laptop and toothbrush charging, we are thinking of changing it for a pure sine one. Any recommendations, and would it just be a case of taking the old one out, and putting a new one in?


Why not simply use electric toothbrushes that charge using a USB socket? Banggood sell excellent sonic ones for just over ÂŁ20.

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Abacist

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Oct 15, 2013
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I agree with Lenny about the wiring.

Positive cables should be red and negative should be black!

You need big beefy cables to connect your batteries together if you are running an inverter off them and big beefy and as short as possible cables between the batteries and the inverter.

I have a Victron 2KW inverter and the cables installed by Vanbitz were 50mm2 which would also do to connect the batteries together Negative to negative and positive to positive. I always tend to over-engineer so on my last van I used 70mm2.

There needs to be a 200 Amp mega fuse on the positive cable between the batteries and the inverter nearer the batteries than the inverter.
 
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Abacist

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Oct 15, 2013
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From a man that has a German van who normally use Blue for positive and Brown for negative.:rofl:
Doesn't matter what colour they are as long as you know which is which.

They are not on my van Lenny - certainly not on the 12 volt side!

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Em and Tim
Dec 13, 2018
96
43
Europe
Funster No
57,564
MH
Euramobil integra 690HB
Exp
Since 2003 camping in works vans
So, we have ordered a smaller replacement pure sine inverter (victron pheonix 250ve), and I think that the fridge frame heater comment may also be correct as there is an isolator switch for the fridge that only works when on mains, we have also found isolators for some if the alarms which are out of use as well, so have shut those off, but I am starting to think that it is time to fit new batteries. Any suggestions for a good budget brand?

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Abacist

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Oct 15, 2013
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Varta or Hankook lead acid
Steer clear of AGM's
Gel if you are feeling flush and have a battery charger setting for them e.g. Exide
Remember to instal a vent tube if they are inside the van to take the poisonous gas outside!
 
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Em and Tim
Dec 13, 2018
96
43
Europe
Funster No
57,564
MH
Euramobil integra 690HB
Exp
Since 2003 camping in works vans
Right, I thought I would update this.
We eventually worked out a way of testing using the TV (as it had its voltage a wattage on it), it lasted 1 hour (it should have lasted 35). So I changed the batteries (as well as the inverter, the new one is great). We got two leoch lagm 130 batteries, gave them a good charge (24hr) on installation, and then went 3 months with just the solar and engine input before plugging in again (now that we are getting less sunny days and using the heating more as it turns colder, it does use a lot of power, but that is just the fans).

So, it was the batteries.
 
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