Poor Battery Life

[Em and Tim]

Hi,
Em & I have leapt in at the deep end, bought an 2004 Euramobil integra 690, quit our jobs, let our house and headed onto the continent for as long as we can make things work on our budget.
At the moment, we seem to run the batteries (2x110 lead (I think,they have refillable acid/water cells) leisure batteries) down if we don't move on each day (we are wild camping as much as possible). We have some lights that we have now designated as only use when on hook up (despite them being LEDs, as all our lights are), but the real killer seems to be the truma blown air heating system. Is this common?

If we want to up our capacity what would ge our best option?
Mount a second solar panel (there is a mount up there that seems designed to take two not one), how much would this cost? Is it likely that the unit that controls the panel could cope with a second panel?
Add another set of batteries (there is room)? and make it so we could switch between the two sets?
Replace the batteries (I popped into the boatyard (we live on a Scottish island) with them before we left and checked they were still good, which they are)?
Buy a generator? If so, which type? (we have fitted an external bbq point, so we could get an lpg generator as we have a 50 litre tank, but they seem very expensive compared to a petrol one).
Turn on the engine, and use that as a generator? (Not a good way, but it seems better than buying a generator) does it charge while stationary? Roughly how long would it take to charge the batteries in this way.
Buy a little control unit, so we have a better understanding of what kills them (yesterday, it was the shower, so that raised the question of the water pump, the heating without the fans, and the light in there, generally we are guessing)?

Also, we have found a useful service point at a garage at a supermarket, where you could fill with water, empty the loo and grey tank, but also plug in on a token system. How does plugging in at one of these work, would it be for long enough to charge the batteries (if so, how long does that usually take?), long enough to do some paperwork on the laptops (we've not yet tried the inverter, mainly because we don't know how it will affect the batteries)? It just seems a bit odd to us.

I have a poor understanding of electricity and how it works, so any advice, please try and explain it to an idiot.
Thanks in advance?
Tim & Em

 

[Richard n Ann]

I think the batteries are knackered. Two should last days off grid even without solar.

 

[denisejoe]

I have the 690 hbl and have added an extra battery so have 3 120 amp
And 2 135 solar panels but it seems that your batteries could need replacing

 

[The Wino]

Either the batteries are knackered or there is some load on them you don't realise are you watching TV a lot? do you run anything on an inverter/the mains sockets when you are not on a hook up

 

[Duck Truck]

Get the batteries checked

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[Ivory55]

Have you been running your batteries really low before recharging them as this knackers them quicker.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Fork out for 2 new Gel batteries. Fit and forget. Expensive to begin with but better value in the long run than cheap new hab batteries.

 

[SandraL]

Are they actually getting a proper charge?
With solar disconnected or covered, run engine and check voltage of leisure battery. Does it rise? to what level?
Can you check amps going into leisure battery when running engine?
Switch off engine and check that solar is actually charging. Again to what voltage and current. The solar will take a long time to bring a low battery up.
Unless you have a battery to battery (b2b) charger the engine will need to runfor hours, many hours to recharge your 2 flat leisure batteries.

 

[Pausim]

In my opinion there is very little point in checking batteries by voltage alone, which is what most quick checks involve. Lead acid batteries deteriorate over time by partial sulphation of the plates, this reduces the capacity of the battery but may not affect the voltage of the battery or it’s ability to appear fully charged. This was explained to me by an AA battery technician who explained that the un-sulphated parts of the plates behaved normally but in reality the 80Ah capacity of the original battery could be more than halved.

 

[ctc]

A and N Caravan Services : Try reading what these, very informative, people have to say about batteries and generators.

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[Lenny HB]

but the real killer seems to be the truma blown air heating system. Is this common?

Myth/old wives tale, Truma draws around 5 amps flat out but once the van is up to temerature it drops to about 1 amp.

Sounds like your batteries have had it, usually when you ask someone to check your batteries they do a CCA test which is a starter battery test, they often pass with flying colours but are shot for leisure use.
The only way to check them is by a controlled discharge which will probably take a day or two.

 

[Richard n Ann]

probably take a day or two.

Or 5 minutes in this case

 

[obanvanman]

We had exactly the same problem as yourselves and by coincidence in our Euramobil.
We now have 2 brand new batteries and 2 100w solar panels plus controllers and with the sun shining in northern France, the van ticked over quite nicely for seven days. Watched some tele in the evening and listened to some music.
We also bought a 400w plug in inverter to charge our tablet/phone.
Kev
PS If you go down the genny route then can you please let us know where you are going to be in advance.

 

[jockaneezer]

Try just running on one battery for a couple of days then repeat the process for the other. Sometimes if one of the batteries is iffy, it will drag all the charge out of the other one too, but it does like it's new battery time.

 

[138go]

We also bought a 400w plug in inverter to charge our tablet/phone

Just plug them into a USB Socket. The inverter will be taking far more power out of the battery than is needed. If you don't have one they are readily available and you only need a 12v Supply

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[138go]

Buy a generator? If so, which type? We have fitted an external bbq point, so we could get an lpg generator as we have a 50 litre tank, but they seem very expensive compared to a petrol one.
Turn on the engine, and use that as a generator?

Don't be surprised if someone asks you to switch it off especially if you are on an Aire ( Noisy things should be banned ) unless you park a good distance away from anyone else. As for running the engine well thats just about as bad as the only way you will get anything like a decent charge from the alternator is at about 1000 rpm. Just running the engine while sitting there will just wreck the engine. Bores will glaze and it will start smoking.

WE have experienced of three generator lovers on our travels. One they were inside with all the windows shut during the day ( 32 Degrees ) with the old generator making a right old racket. Another time we had just found a really nice wild camping spot by the sea when someone turned up and squeezed in next to us and the first thing he did was stick the generator on next to us so we moved. Then Whitby about 9pm gave it 5 minutes and went and complained. They were using the microwave to heat up some soup so needed the generator running

 

[Ivory55]

What did the campsite warden have to say ?

 

[xsparks]

If the batteries came with the vehicle check for a date code this will give you a good idea of what to expect.

 

[Minxy]

Sounds like the 2 x 110 amp batteries are shot as you should easily last for at least 2 days with them based on what use you're mentioned.

If you already have the brackets in place for solar panels (assuming someone has removed others?) and tell us what the control unit is we can perhaps help point you in the direction of how to refit them and what else you might need.

We wild-camp all the time and in our previous camper had no issues as we had a 3-way fridge but with our new one we have an all-electric fridge which has caused us power issues, this thread I started may give you some info from the suggestions made by others:

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...erate-power-mechanically.189780/#post-3158464

 

[autorouter]

Your battery capacity is measured in amp-hours (Ah): 2 x 110 = 220 Ah. Common advice seems to be, to only use half of that, in other words discharge it only until it is 50% full. So your usable battery capacity is 110 Ah.

Batteries lose their storage capacity over time, especially if they are often discharged to much less than 50%. That means the usable capacity may be only 50 Ah or less.

First off, you need to know how much energy you are using in one day. Everyone's lifestyle is different, but many people manage well on 50 Ah per day, which can just about be replaced by a 100 watt solar panel on a good long sunny day. That depends a lot on the weather. Bad weather means less solar but more heater consumption.

There's more than one way to measure your power consumption. Battery voltage is often misleading, but it's better than nothing at all. There are tables that show the battery resting voltage at various percentage discharge levels. A better idea is to measure the amps consumed by each device, and work out how many hours per day it is on. Then total up the amp-hours. For that you'll need a meter that measures amps.

The best way is to use a battery monitor, which can measure amps (in and out), but also has a built-in clock and computer so it can measure the total amp-hours and display it as a percentage of the total battery capacity. They are more expensive than simple a voltage/ammeter.

As others have said, maybe your batteries are no good, or there's an unexplained drain on them (or both). Have a read of this thread for ideas on the drain if that's the problem.
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/electrical-problem.194502/

I'd double check that the inverter is fully isolated when not being used. It's not enough to just switch off the output, there's often quite a high no-load drain, which can make all the difference if it's on all the time.

If you give the make/model of the solar controller, or even better post a picture of it, someone will tell you if there's spare capacity to take an extra panel, or not.

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[Sundowners]

Is the fridge frame heater switched on??I had mine running for months and couldn't work out where the battery power was going

 

[Em and Tim]

There's more than one way to measure your power consumption. Battery voltage is often misleading, but it's better than nothing at all.

The best way is to use a battery monitor, which can measure amps (in and out), but also has a built-in clock and computer so it can measure the total amp-hours and display it as a percentage of the total battery capacity. They are more expensive than simple a voltage/ammete

I'd double check that the inverter is fully isolated when not being used. It's not enough to just switch off the output, there's often quite a high no-load drain, which can make all the difference if it's on all the time.

If you give the make/model of the solar controller, or even better post a picture of it, someone will tell you if there's spare capacity to take an extra panel, or not.

Thanks for all the comments, I think that Autorouter may have hit the nail on the head in that we think the inverter (which we have still yet to use, because we are worried about it killing the batteries), had got knocked to the on button when we were stowing some stuff away, that and a fan for a system that takes air from the floor and blows it out at the top or the habitation (not air con, but something similar). We think that the inverter being on, may have been doing it, but the voltage seems to go straight back up when there is no load on it, and drop as soon as the heating is turned on again.

We have discussed a monitor of some description, at the moment, the built in control panel gives us a voltage (ranging from between 14v, full, and down to 10.5v empty, the alarm goes off at 11v), and an odd reading of -83.9amps that never seems to change.

To answer other points, we have one solar panel, (with a mount for another), that is about 3' by 2', haven't watched much TV, (none in this last occasion), and generally are not running anything much more than the heating and led lights. We have no idea what the fridge frame heater is!

The test we had done one the batteries was a volt meter reading and a 30 second discharge with what I would best describe as a heating element in the device.

The solar control panel is in the attached photo.

SandraL, sorry, that's all over my head.

Thanks again for any advice.

 

[Sundowners]

A lot of fridges have a 12v heater built into the door frame it is to stop ice/ condensation on the frame

 

[peterc10]

If you have let your batteries run down as low as 10.5V a few times they will be knackered.

 

[Abacist]

Personally and regardless of the state of your batteries, I would only use the heating and fridge on gas and save the batteries for your lights, water pump, toilet and TV and piezo ignition to light your oven and hob if you have one. That will make the batteries go further and gas is cheap. On that basis 2 batteries should enable you to last, certainly for a long weekend, with no problem and if the batteries are good nearly a week.

The Inverter should only be used when you have the means to recharge the batteries via solar or B2B charger when you are running the engine or driving along.

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[pappajohn]

The test we had done one the batteries was a volt meter reading and a 30 second discharge with what I would best describe as a heating element in the device.

That sounds very much like a drop tester for starter batteries. I would advise against using it on leisure batteries.
Starter batteries are designed to deliver a very high amperage (300 amps+) for a short time.... A starter motor for example.

A leisure battery is design to deliver a relatively low amperage over a long period... Running lights, TV, water pump, heating fan etc

The drop tester puts an extremely high load on the battery for a few seconds and could damage a leisure battery.

 

[Em and Tim]

Personally and regardless of the state of your batteries, I would only use the heating and fridge on gas and save the batteries for your lights, water pump, toilet and TV and piezo ignition to light your oven and hob if you have one. That will make the batteries go further and gas is cheap. On that basis 2 batteries should enable you to last, certainly for a long weekend, with no problem and if the batteries are good nearly a week.

The Inverter should only be used when you have the means to recharge the batteries via solar or B2B charger when you are running the engine or driving along.

That would line up with how we are using it, though with the truma blown air heating, it heats via gas (but unless I have my wires crossed), then uses electricity to blow it round. I did not know that it could be used on electricity, if so, would that explain the seemingly defunct controls at the steering wheel, and may it be that we have it on the wrong setting, or am I just confusing myself further here.

 

[Em and Tim]

If you have let your batteries run down as low as 10.5V a few times they will be knackered.

I think it's been down there once, generally as soon as the alarm sounds at 11v, we switch off the panel and use head torches etc. (Basically we treat it as if we are camping in a tent)

 

[Em and Tim]

X

 

[Em and Tim]

If you have let your batteries run down as low as 10.5V a few times they will be knackered.

I hope not, I think it's only flashed that once, generally as soon as the alarm sounds at 11v, we switch off the panel and use head torches etc. (Basically we treat it as if we are camping in a tent)