Piaggio MP3 500 and Easylifter Hydra-Trail advice please for prospective MHer! (1 Viewer)

[Charlie]

Going back to the safety aspect of bikes and in particular the stability with a pillion getting on and off etc. this is one of the reasons I was also interested in the.... (drum roll)

Quadro4! 350cc

Has anyone else looked at this? Broken Link Removed

It has over 30% more power than the Yourban MP3 300 but 25% less power than the MP3 500. It is also the most expensive at £8500!

No ABS or traction control but it does have 4 disc brakes and 2 wheel drive on the back. How this compares/makes up for the lack of ABS or traction control I do not know. Any comments on this from you experienced bikers?

And, I presume, almost impossible for it to topple over.

At the moment there's only 4 dealers in the UK so that is a downside although there is one less than 5 miles from me.

David I have never seen one of those let alone try one. For me it would be the obvious lack of dealers that would leave me relying on mail order for spares. There is not much I could not to mechanically to something like this having spent many years building race bikes.
But being stuck in say France for silly parts could be a nuisance..

You are lucky having a dealer so close so well worth a visit ? Would be very interested to hear your thoughts ! It does look the part but then at the price it should !

 

[davidcrossland]

I'm particularly attracted to the Piaggio MP3 500abs adr becuase of the ABS and the traction control.

However, I'm trying to find whether having a 4th wheel makes up for the lack of. Just so I can get it in my head as to how they compare. All the comparison videos are in french!

Your nearest dealer is in Birmingham, I believe. More being added, I'm told.

The Guardian reviewed it: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/27/quadro-4-scooter-review

So did Bennetts: http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/quadro/quadro4-road-test/#.Vn_dfFnzkgY

Review by Visor Down: http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-quadro4-review/26737.html

Video here by Visor Down:

 

[Encantador]

Don't really see what is gained over the MP3 for the extra dosh.

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[davidcrossland]

I think the tippling over aspect that worries me about the Piaggio MP3 Encantador. What do you think?

The guy doing the Guardian review said "The bizarre thing about the Quadro is that you can tilt it right over even at very low speeds – it’ll lean up to 45 degrees at crawling speeds. You’ll fall off it well before it falls over."

While the Bennetts review said: "Once you’ve mastered sitting upright (try it on a camber, or whilst the body is tilted and it’ll still tip over) and have sussed out the controls you can take it for a spin."

If I was guaranteed not to tip over on the Quadro4 then this would be a major plus point in my book.

 

[hilldweller]

If I was guaranteed not to tip over on the Quadro4 then this would be a major plus point in my book.

I can guarantee that 2, 3, 4 or 8 wheels, if you are sat on it not in it you will go flying when Mr SMIDSY visits you. That should be your concern not ABS TC 3 4 wheels.

It time stop talking and get your leg over.

 

[Charlie]

Read carefully... In the Visor down report they say its a bit unstable at low speeds. No doubt due to all four wheels having the ability to tilt.
What worries me given many are novice riders including you David is how much input is required to get the thing turning tightly on line at speed. Under-steer is the key word here. Please shout up if you are unsure what under steer is ?

The biggest cause of motorcyclists crashing is loosing control in a bend. What often happens is the rider gets into a bend to quickly. The rider then has a panic moment and does one of two things.

1 He /she leans much harder and tightens the line. Gets round the bend usually with brown karky butterfly like patterns in the underpants . But gets round nonetheless .

Or 2 bottles it ...... The problem is is that in that moment of panic and it is a the briefest of moments the rider looses confidence (bottle) and sits upright or even hits the brakes. This is terminal under steer and results in a crash.

The Quadro is seems has under steer as a standard feature and this is about as undesirable a feature as we can get on a motor cycle or one that tilts and behaves like a motor cycle does.

Those of us who have raced will testify that we spend much time effort and indeed money on making a motor cycle turn in an hold a line. This is done through a combination of things like suspension. Weight reduction of the steered wheel (front) Ride height setting static sag and all manor of things to give us what we call "neutral" steering... Very desirable .

IMHO sending out an inexperienced person on a machine that under steers is about the worst thing that can be done.

No doubt that is one complex machine but is it too complex ? I actually dont like the way it works.. Cant say why but its far to unusual and frankly at 8 grand I want something that is tried and tested .

It would be stupid and ridiculously unfair to say its a bad machine or doesn't work especially as I haven't seen or ridden one .

The MP3 is a well tried and tested machine that works . Your wife like mine can hop on and off without issue when in the locked position. Stability is tried and tested. Price while high is acceptable and residuals are incredibly high. Parts are easily available and machine quality is very good. They are cheaper..

Your money my friend and your decision. I know where I would be placing my bets ...

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[pappajohn]

This american Versa Haul mp3 carrier looks interesting although I haven't worked out the hitch required, just yet!

http://www.discountramps.com/piaggio-mp3-carrier/p/VH-MP3/

The yanks have a different system to us.
The ball is attached to a seperate 2" square box section which slides into a reciever attached to the car and is locked by a pin through the reciever.
The carrier in your link is not attached to the ball, instead it has the same box section which slots into the fixed reciever.
Yank tow bars can tow up to 10000lbs, train weight permitting.....just under 5 tons whereas our bars and balls are limited to just 3.5tons

 

[Encantador]

I think the tippling over aspect that worries me about the Piaggio MP3 Encantador. What do you think?

You have to be confident holding the machine up with a pillion, the 500 is a heavy machine. Initially you will need to put your feet down first and hold the weight.

Some (like me) then progress to hardly ever putting their feet down, some riders feel more confident by not doing so, each to their own. I am always aware though of being ready to put my feet down if the need should arise.

 

[pappajohn]

I dont think anyone has considered the downforce issue yet, appologies if im wrong.

I dont mean the rear axle loading......but the actual towbars nose weight limit.
The vast majority are limited to either 75kg or 100kg vehicle dependant.

Of course, with the lever effect of being far behind the actual towbar the imposed weight of a 200kg bike on the rack could be in excess of 250kg/300kg.....maybe 3 times the towbars downforce limit.

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[Charlie]

I dont think anyone has considered the downforce issue yet, appologies if im wrong.

I dont mean the rear axle loading......but the actual towbars nose weight limit.
The vast majority are limited to either 75kg or 100kg vehicle dependant.

Of course, with the lever effect of being far behind the actual towbar the imposed weight of a 200kg bike on the rack could be in excess of 250kg/300kg.....maybe 3 times the towbars downforce limit.

I thought the idea of trailers or those other devices was to reduce the weight right down ? Putting even a small scooter on a tow bar mounted rack must surely exceed 100 KG !

 

[davidcrossland]

That's very kind of you Charlie for explaining all this to me. I have Googled "understeer" and seen a video of cars on a race circuit with either understeer or oversteer. This was very helpful. Video posted below for anyone, like me, who's not too familiar with these terms.

Thanks too Encantador - playing safe to begin with (by putting my feet down) is definitely the order of the day. And hilldweller, your point is very helpful too although I did have to look up SMIDSY lol.

Yes, it looks as though the tried and well tested (150,000 sold and more) Piaggio MP3 500 is for me.

Many thanks to all of you for your advice. As you will no doubt know now I can take a long time before making a decision. The input from each of you has been invaluable and I am very grateful.

 

[hilldweller]

I did have to look up SMIDSY lol.

Just 2 years ago I got SMIDNSYed, a Porsche came out of side road and wrote my bike off, I was tougher than the bike. 2 3 or 4 wheels, the end would have been the same.

Or maybe not, I was knocked sideways, quite a gentle impact, the Russian judge game me 10/10 for a tripple somersault with a back flip finish and full rotation on my helmet, now I wonder if I had a lot more grip/stability of 3 or 4 wheels would have made for a harsher bang. It's the legs that get it in these side impacts.

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[Charlie]

That's very kind of you Charlie for explaining all this to me. I have Googled "understeer" and seen a video of cars on a race circuit with either understeer or oversteer. This was very helpful. Video posted below for anyone, like me, who's not too familiar with these terms.

Thanks too Encantador - playing safe to begin with (by putting my feet down) is definitely the order of the day. And hilldweller, your point is very helpful too although I did have to look up SMIDSY lol.

Yes, it looks as though the tried and well tested (150,000 sold and more) Piaggio MP3 500 is for me.

Many thanks to all of you for your advice. As you will no doubt know now I can take a long time before making a decision. The input from each of you has been invaluable and I am very grateful.

Taking your time is important when deciding which machine is the right one. I look forward to your thoughts when you have had chance to examine in detail and have a test.. Good luck with it !!!

 

[davidcrossland]

The yanks have a different system to us.
The ball is attached to a seperate 2" square box section which slides into a reciever attached to the car and is locked by a pin through the reciever.
The carrier in your link is not attached to the ball, instead it has the same box section which slots into the fixed reciever.
Yank tow bars can tow up to 10000lbs, train weight permitting.....just under 5 tons whereas our bars and balls are limited to just 3.5tons

Thanks Pappajohn. That looks interesting although for practical use probably not much good. It's interesting to see the loads they carry just on the back of a pickup truck supported by a towing hitch. Shame we don't have the same here.

 

[Autowbars]

My only real concern with the Tracty is that they use 10" wheels.
I appreciate it is difficult to use larger ones but anything with 10" wheels do tend to get through bearings quite quickly.. The wheels are going round at a hellova a lick compared to the your van wheels !!

The original minis had ten inch wheels, we sell many trailers with 10in wheels no problem.
Our 3500 kg car transporter only has 12 in ones
Bearings on QUALITY hubs have grease nipples and need maintenance just like a wife

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[Jaws]

The original minis had ten inch wheels, we sell many trailers with 10in wheels no problem.
Our 3500 kg car transporter only has 12 in ones
Bearings on QUALITY hubs have grease nipples and need maintenance just like a wife

Thats all fine.. As an engineer I just cannot agree 10" wheels are as good as 12" or larger
To quote mini as an example is really like shooting your self in the foot
Why, if the 10" wheels were so good did they change to 12" eventually ?
There is also a massive difference between the bearings used on CV joints and standard stub axles.. The rear wheel bearing on the original mini were carrying very little weight
Are you using needle, roller, tapered type ?
How many wheels on your transporter ?
If 10" are so good why has it got 12" on ?
No matter what, a 10" diameter wheel speed is considerably more than larger wheels

The diameter of a 10 x 145 x 80 is 60.06"
That of a 12" x 155 is 68.35"

Over a mile that equates to 1045 revolutions for the 10" wheel and 926 revolutions for the 12" wheel

So the smaller wheel will turn 11 % more and at a commensurate higher ratational speed

Also considerably greater tyre wear due to heat generated and the fact it will be on the road 11% more

Quote what ever is seen fit but it is impossible for anyone to turn their back on absolute basic
mathematics

 

[currynutter]

Thinking of tow bar weight,has anyone tried the Ezetow rack come trailer,with castering wheels and suspension,they have a normal tow bar fixing plus 2 huge drop links to prevent sideways movement.

 

[davidcrossland]

I think they've gone bust.

Read this post: http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ezetow-have-gone-bust.55893/

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[olley]

see previous post

 

[davidcrossland]

That's it! I'm committed to scootering now! lol

This afternoon, in John Lewis I spotted, in their sale, a Garmin Zumo 350LM - satnav for motor bikes and scooters.

And it was only £119! Fortunately I had my phone on me so I could check the prices before I bought it.

All I have to do now is do a deal with whichever dealer I buy my Piaggio MP3 from to do the Garmin install. Then the world, or at least Europe, is my oyster! lol

 

[gus-lopez]

Saw these 4 wheelers on holiday in 2013 ... brilliant way for wheelchair users to still enjoy 'driving' and riding a bike. Also a 3 wheeler too. The only problem is they'd be no easier to park, or weave through the traffic, than a car.

View attachment 87452 View attachment 87453 View attachment 87454 View attachment 87455 View attachment 87456

+ the price.many of them are in the 60k+ euros bracket.

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[PeteH]

Hi

Cannot remember where I first saw this Idea. But I found this on Flea bay:-

Broken Link Removed

Looks as if it basically turns a bike/trike into a Trailer using the Trike/Bike rear wheel?

Pete

P.S. If you read the site to it`s End. It states:- THIS DEVISE IS CLASSIFIED AS A RECOVERY DEVICE.!! which MAY well leave it in the same limbo as the "Towing dolly"? (or the grey area of the "A"frame).

What do you think?

Pete

 

[Charlie]

Hi

Cannot remember where I first saw this Idea. But I found this on Flea bay:-

Broken Link Removed

Looks as if it basically turns a bike/trike into a Trailer using the Trike/Bike rear wheel?

Pete

P.S. If you read the site to it`s End. It states:- THIS DEVISE IS CLASSIFIED AS A RECOVERY DEVICE.!! which MAY well leave it in the same limbo as the "Towing dolly"? (or the grey area of the "A"frame).

What do you think?

Pete

Great ! An A frame for bikes .....

 

[Minxy]

Hi

Cannot remember where I first saw this Idea. But I found this on Flea bay:-

Broken Link Removed

Looks as if it basically turns a bike/trike into a Trailer using the Trike/Bike rear wheel?

Pete

P.S. If you read the site to it`s End. It states:- THIS DEVISE IS CLASSIFIED AS A RECOVERY DEVICE.!! which MAY well leave it in the same limbo as the "Towing dolly"? (or the grey area of the "A"frame).

What do you think?

Pete

If it is ONLY certified to be used as a recovery device (and therefore only meets the necessary standard/conformity for that use) then it is NOT meant to be used as a standard towing method for anything other than that specific need and probably won't be durable enough for long term, or higher speed, use.

I don't think that carting a bike around like that would do it any favours either as they are not meant to have the strain on their frame that this would place due to the front being 'lifted'.

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[olley]

I would think the strain on the frame is less than the strain imposed by a rider when he's on the bike, and certainly less than when he's carrying a pillion passenger.

Ian

 

[pappajohn]

Hi

Cannot remember where I first saw this Idea. But I found this on Flea bay:-

Broken Link Removed

Looks as if it basically turns a bike/trike into a Trailer using the Trike/Bike rear wheel?

Pete

P.S. If you read the site to it`s End. It states:- THIS DEVISE IS CLASSIFIED AS A RECOVERY DEVICE.!! which MAY well leave it in the same limbo as the "Towing dolly"? (or the grey area of the "A"frame).

What do you think?

Pete

No grey area Pete.
The scooter has a rear brake fitted.
While on tow (except for recovery purposes) that brake has to be functional and meet trailer regulations regardless of weight
That is not possible in that instance so its illegal.

 

[PeteH]

I cannot find a ref to this. But is not any trailer under 750kg exempt from having brakes? If so why would that affect this device?. As for structural failure If the Bike/ trike was designed properly it would function in the same manner as being ridden??.

I think, back in the "dim and distant" I saw a similar device which supported the front wheel but clamped also to the underside of the Bikes frame. ?? I think it belonged to a "Speedway" Rider? and allowed him to trail his bike between meetings.

Pete

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[gus-lopez]

I cannot find a ref to this. But is not any trailer under 750kg exempt from having brakes? If so why would that affect this device?. As for structural failure If the Bike/ trike was designed properly it would function in the same manner as being ridden??.

I think, back in the "dim and distant" I saw a similar device which supported the front wheel but clamped also to the underside of the Bikes frame. ?? I think it belonged to a "Speedway" Rider? and allowed him to trail his bike between meetings.

Pete

Yes you are quite right that under 750kgs doesn't need brakes BUT as @pappajohn pointed out, if the bike has a rear brake then it Must work in conjunction with the towing vehicle.

 

[PeteH]

if the bike has a rear brake then it Must work in conjunction with the towing vehicle.

That`s my dilemma? I have never seen this in OFFICIAL Print only as Quotes?.

Pete

 

[MikeD]

That`s my dilemma? I have never seen this in OFFICIAL Print only as Quotes?.

Pete

This might assist:

Broken Link Removed

Second Paragraph:
"Trailers having a combined axle mass not exceeding 750kg are not required to have brakes fitted.
However, if the trailer (regardless of mass) is fitted with a braking system, then all brakes in
that system must operate correctly."

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