Payload - Important or Not, do we need a law to ensure all vans sold MUST be weighed at time of sale? (1 Viewer)

[Langtoftlad]

As a generality we need less laws, not more.
We don't need more bureaucratic interference - giving authorities an excuse to add more costs, charges & fees.
The motorhome market is too small to be a priority with lawmakers.
Who would enforce?
I'd prefer more education & taking personal responsibility.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'd prefer more education & taking personal responsibility.

When I bought my first Motorhome I looked thoroughly into payload, weight of extras etc.
It's not hard, just common sense.

 

[Rapido925M]

With reference to motorhomes the payload is governed purely by the European Directive on Masses and Dimensions. This requires a minimum user payload of 10L + 10N where L is the length of the motorhome in metres and N is the number of berths.

As someone who tends to keep abreast of these things, do you know what laws are intended post-Brexit?

Thanks - Gordon

PS I assume it will just be rolled over.

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[Scotsblood]

Any NCC approved motorhome has had a model weighed to check it provides the minimum payload.

Jim’s quote is unfortunately part of the problem, as we know from the NCC Verified Battery Scheme, malarkey their “tests” may be of the same standards as the manufactures and I for one will question their results.

For my own peace of mind when we collect our new van, deposit paid at the weekend, one of the first journeys will be a weighbridge. Only when I know the start point can we decide how much clutter we can then put in!

 

[Cheshirecat57]

How about you walk in to a dealer and tell them that (your) condition number one is that you want an unladen weight taking before money changes hands

Tick done

And OP , I do know what my van weighs when full to the gunwales, so it is lighter than that at every other time

 

[Jim]

I doubt whether the NCC nor the manufacturers will do much to educate the public with regard to real-world useable payloads. This will have to be end-user lead. We do all we can here to highlight this issue which in some cases is scandalous, and the magazine will be addressing it too.

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[596]

That is within the 5% tolerance, most manufacturers appear to build to the top of the tolerance, just another scam to make the van appear lighter as they can state a weight that is lower than it actually is.
The tolerance should be +0 -10% rather than =/-5% then at least the customer would know the max weight.
Interestingly Hymer appears to be one of the few manufacturers that can build to the specified weight, my first 2 were 30kg under, current van only 16 kg over so it can be done.

Looking at my post earlier of fines for overloading for each % above it doesn't seem that the authorities have tolerances.

Don't get me wrong I am not being a troublemaker, its just that my experience over the last 2 weeks has been a nightmare finding the correct weight payloads and I went in with my eyes open, I just want to ensure I am safe and legal, with the amount of thought required what chance would a Brexiter have if they went to buy one?

 

[596]

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I wonder how many forum members know their vans EXACT weight right now?

Can’t remember where Jim posted the results but the weighing at Peterborough Show proved a considerable number to be overweight, particularly on the rear axle.
I suspect a significant number of Motorhomes are over loaded and the owners, either unaware or not concerned.

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[Jim]

Can’t remember where Jim posted the results but the weighing at Peterborough Show proved a considerable number to be overweight, particularly on the rear axle.
I suspect a significant number of Motorhomes are over loaded and the owners, either unaware or not concerned.

45% were overweight. 10% of those by a LOT

 

[138go]

Bought our Laika from Southdowns and we were shown the weigh bridge ticket for our MH. They also stated that it had empty tanks and a few litres of diesel in it and no driver. Simple really it’s just to much trouble for some Dealers. They would rather tell the odd porky to get a sale.

 

[596]

Well my beloved 2004 Kontiki 645 is now for sale in the For Sale section, just been away having it MOT'd and it sailed through, am I doing the right thing selling it? I really hope so as nice ones are hard to find, moving from Kontiki to MFI is going to be tough

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[pandas]

And

45% were overweight. 10% of those by a LOT

the real worry is that I expect half of them couldn’t care a dam - maybe. Until they wipe out a family as they couldn’t stop in time that is!

 

[Ivory55]

And

the real worry is that I expect half of them couldn’t care a dam - maybe. Until they wipe out a family as they couldn’t stop in time that is!

Have you seen some cars on the road loaded up and 4 bikes hanging on the back. It’s not just motorhomes. Did the dealer weigh the car and explain what they could put in their car , I doubt it.

 

[Jim]

And

the real worry is that I expect half of them couldn’t care a dam - maybe. Until they wipe out a family as they couldn’t stop in time that is!

Why would you expect that? It was voluntary and most who were found overweight were concerned and were going to stake steps to sort it out.

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[596]

I just feel that IF people know the truth they can make their own judgements, its just if you are NOT told the truth and then run overweight that seems unfair as you could face danger or the law. But at the end of the day it is YOUR responsibility to ensure you comply with the law, a weigh his a tenner to so and weigh bridges can be found easily locally to anyone, I just feel the the industry could have helped me more as it has taken days of my time to sort it out, you wonder what the actually do for their money

 

[sallylillian]

As @LennyHB said it's not too difficult to research, however the subject of licensing tends to drive a sort of something for nothing ideal. Cramming so many must haves into an ever decreasing pot. For example the trend to try and get a car garage in a van under 7.5 tons. I think it's crazy, both M and C have options and then they have to include a drain to 100 litres on the water tank. On top of that there are the +or - 5 or 10% in the Ts&Cs. I have read of these Van's being returned because the payload is only 300 kgs and totally impractical. But who drives manufacturers to produce these impossible dreams.... the buying public, US!

 

[Langtoftlad]

The existing laws are sufficient.
Enforcement is the issue.

There are tolerances if caught overloaded (if a private driver) before fixed penalties.

pandas depends on what is meant by overweight? The arbitrary bureaucrats limit or the technical capability of the vehicle (often much higher)

Personally more concerned about maintenance & driving skills than weight.

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[596]

Good brakes help as well

 

[thebriars]

I have been motor homing for over 10yrs and having just been through buying my first brand new find the whole system archaic, not only that as mentioned above the quality of the new vans is suspect to say the least, my older 2004 Kontiki 645 that I will be selling next week is solid and beautifully finished, my new Bessacarr looks cheap and nasty, it has wiring exposed, the finish on parts of it is awful, don't worry I made it crystal clear that I want it all perfect before I accept delivery of it, but what the hell do the quality controllers at Swift do, or is it just a matter of turn out as many as you can, a 3 yr old would do a better job of the mastic I saw on a showroom van that looked like it had just been slapped on without a care in the world!

I watched a video of the Swift Command system, it looked like it had been designed by a 6th form pupil, I understand it has been updated now and my new van has the later version, but having been exposed via iPhones, android or tablets to professional apps why in Britain does it look so childish, surely we have clever people over here who can make it look professional, no wonder it only gets 2 stars on the App review!

OK rant over, time for a coffee to perk myself up

I'm wondering why you bought one if they are this bad. The fact that you have bought one also encourages them to keep producing rubbish.

 

[thebriars]

The brochure for my Benimar clearly stated the weight, and there was also a very clear paragraph underneath stating exactly what was included in that weight. On delivery, my fist job was to take it to a weighbridge. It was just a few kg different from the advertised weight and well within the 5% margin.

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[596]

I'm wondering why you bought one if they are this bad. The fact that you have bought one also encourages them to keep producing rubbish.

There was and is nothing else about, I think it's just the way with most things now, its run by accountants. There is no secret, find one and have a look, maybe some people don't look closely, I think the issue was as I said I had just spent 2 days in Germany looking at them, the difference in quality is immense, but then also are some prices, I had to get what I could afford.

 

[thebriars]

There was and is nothing else about, I think it's just the way with most things now, its run by accountants. There is no secret, find one and have a look, maybe some people don't look closely, I think the issue was as I said I had just spent 2 days in Germany looking at them, the difference in quality is immense, but then also are some prices, I had to get what I could afford.

Just compared mine to the nearest Swift and price for price they are exactly the same with the same features and accessories, except mine has none of the faults you've listed, and a more powerful engine. Personally after too many rubbish British Caravans I'd never touch a British motorhome.

 

[PeteH]

Been having a look at the last set of figures. When I brought the "latest acquisition" from the dealers I took it on the local Farm Weighbridge before I went home. (it has to be accurate as they weigh in and out after drying) With a Freshly filled tank of fuel, one gas bottle, (a swap from my "trade in") No Water and M-T Grey:- it was 3460Kg. (1620 F 1840 R) Giving a payload of 420Kg. That was with a Full Alden Sat unit, Tow Bar, Solar and 2 Gels, Rear Air etc; plus other items already fitted.

However to get to that point. I have to be able to pass a Mandatory Medical and Eyesight test in order to be "allowed" to legally continue driving, now I am over 70. THAT very reason is why so many `vans are overweight. The demand from punters for More "Toys" has over time eaten into payloads designed to stay below the "Magic" 3.5t limit on the B / B1 Driving licence.

If you look on the Chassis manufacturers site(s) the vast majority of cab/chassis, can cope with increased mass, with just a paper exercise. It`s the Licence that dictates what so Many can drive.

Back in the 90`s (and earlier) we had a similar situation with R-V`s. Many of which where being sold in the UK as "NOT needing an LGV Licence". Most often because they where imported "plated" as below 7.5t. despite being actually constructed on 22000lb (11t) chassis. As indeed the Winnebago I had in the USA was. They where legal to drive assuming you had the C-1 on your licence. BUT many where overloaded by the owners in exactly the same situation as some find themselves in with Euro-vans now. In that whilst the Underpinnings where CAPABLE the Plated weight made them Overweight to drive ON THE C-1 LICENCE.

I already had my HGV under Grandads rights. But like others I went and did a retake as I had not driven Trucks in many years. But there where several who where technically not legal, driving huge buses. which weighed over 9ton or more.

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[596]

Just compared mine to the nearest Swift and price for price they are exactly the same with the same features and accessories, except mine has none of the faults you've listed, and a more powerful engine. Personally after too many rubbish British Caravans I'd never touch a British motorhome.

What model have you got? I upgraded to the 150 engine, need rear lounge and 1,000kg payload. I spoke with Marquis and they never mentioned Benimar. I am really going to miss the huge bed above the cab that you can climb into, close the curtains and have a nap still leaving two larger front and rear seating areas.

 

[Ivory55]

I think we are all the same we want everything done for us but don’t want to pay. Ie the dealer to pay someone to drive to a weigh bridge pay for a ticket and bring it back. Then in the next breath dealer charges are extortion etc etc. We are all the same.

 

[Lenny HB]

Personally after too many rubbish British Caravans I'd never touch a British motorhome.

Me too.

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[Robert Clark]

Payload, is this important to people?

The reason I ask is that having undergone a recent search for a motorhome with the payload required I found firstly there is never the option when searching a manufacturers or dealers site for the payload required, I also found that the payloads shown in any advertisement were almost all incorrect, this could be due to extras added from manufacturers specifications by dealers, or dealers being plain economical with the truth.

As a lot of you will know it is so easy to become illegal with too much payload, but many people just work on figures given when it was sold that could be totally incorrect, is it about time that any van sold MUST be weighed. Surely it’s better to be safe than have your head in the sand, it just seems nobody takes payload and max weights seriously, examples being in another thread with vans sold with a 220kg payload, so easy to exceed that with a large partner and their food supplies for a weekend, never mind clothing, drinks and deck chairs!

I have had a nightmare finding the van that will suit my needs, and still don’t know if there were any other options around because it’s so difficult to find out and even the salesmen don’t know!

I am sure there are a few overloaded vans driving about, but I guess it’s not until you have an accident or get stopped and weighed that you end up in big trouble, I have no idea what the fines are but if you had a fatal accident it could be jail time in some countries!

I wonder how many forum members know their vans EXACT weight right now?

What would happen if the van you are trying to sell was weighed right now ?

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[pandas]

Why would you expect that? It was voluntary and most who were found overweight were concerned and were going to stake steps to sort it out.

Yes agreed and apologies. I was making a general statement related to previous posts about payload where there has been a cavalier disregard to the subject by some plus personal experience when in discussion about other motorhomers who seem to feel is a badge of honour not having ever been to a weigh bridge or understanding what they weigh. Reading between the lines on subjects about water there are quite a few that prefer to travel with full water tanks - I suspect they might be therefore sailing close to the wind in terms of weight.

 

[thebriars]

What model have you got? I upgraded to the 150 engine, need rear lounge and 1,000kg payload. I spoke with Marquis and they never mentioned Benimar. I am really going to miss the huge bed above the cab that you can climb into, close the curtains and have a nap still leaving two larger front and rear seating areas.

Different to yours, we've got the 486 with the Ford chassis and auto gearbox. The 170bhp engine comes as standard, and includes a motorhome sat nav, heated windscreen and lights that follow round the bend. The 5 year Ford warranty is worth having. That layout works for us, especially the drop down bed. Very pleased with the quality of it. A few minor niggles but very solidly built, and enough room in the garage for 2 electric bikes and a mobility scooter.

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